Explain to me why I should choose Favored Soul over Cleric

[erikbozelie]

hmm, there is one advantage not said in my last post. cleric builds will win min maxed in every angle.
but straight dumb / idiot builds fvs wins. making it more noob friendly.

takes more effort to master the cleric. guess thats an disadvantage on theyre part.

[knightgf]

Yeah, sure, I'll admit, with wings, DR, and 'maybe' some more SP depending on your build and playstyle, FvS may seem like a good choice. However, I would much rather roll a cleric any day than a FvS. It's incredibly complex to understand the class, not to mention I run out of SP so fast due to how sloppy I built the build and how I play its just insane. Cleric is a great choice if your a total noob like me, or if you like simplicity, healing and some other good stuff.

[erikbozelie]

Yeah, sure, I'll admit, with wings, DR, and 'maybe' some more SP depending on your build and playstyle, FvS may seem like a good choice. However, I would much rather roll a cleric any day than a FvS. It's incredibly complex to understand the class, not to mention I run out of SP so fast due to how sloppy I built the build and how I play its just insane. Cleric is a great choice if your a total noob like me, or if you like simplicity, healing and some other good stuff.

sounds to me like you are in need of an better cleric build.
they will win in every specialized build, but requires more knowledge to master the class.

[Candela90]

U just have to chooce what u prefer:

FvS DR vs Cleric Heavy Armor Profiency (hard ti have enough AC that will matter anything in endgame, so for me here DR wins totally)
Prestige with bonus to damage with spells vs Prestige with bonus to healing
Archon and wings vs burst and aura
More sp and less slots vs Less sp and more slots (here i only miss 1-2 spells i dont have on my fvs, with others im good)
More feats vs Feat hungry


So... ill sum this up this way
FVS: more sp + mobility(jump as a class skill + wings) + DR + more dmg and DC (cause u have free place to take spell focus and greater spell focus e.g. evo).
Cleric: more slots + walking truck + AC + bonuses to healing + saving sp with aura and bursts(and burst are fanstastick for beholders, cause u can use them even in antimagic)

I prefer FvS, but thats because i like characters with good mobility. Dont like running slowly at the end. Or taking off armor to jump somwhere. But clerics bursts are something i really miss at beholders. Still FvS maybe will get their healing prestige.

[gloopygloop]

ow joy, you said the forbidden sencence in spellcasting folder .

an cleric can splash 3 classes, and maintain about every single importent ability. while an fvs would lose about everything hes worth.

in other words:
an cleric can asimulate other classes features and abilities while an fvs cannot.

such can it asimulate the spell point pool of fvs and socs by going 18/1/1. or 17/2/1. depending on flavor and beat it in spell endurance, or take 2 monk / 1 roque for masive damage. theres unlimited ways to splash so and every plus on fvs soul side, is been discussed in a thread linked below.

Not trying to pick on your language skills, but asimulate isn't a word in English and I'm confused by your use of it in these paragraphs. Were you trying to say "assimilate" or "simulate" or something else entirely?

Also, how are you making an 18/1/1 or 17/2/1 Cleric's spell point pool match the spell point pool of a FvS or Sorcerer (who don't tend to splash other classes since they give up so much of their power by doing so)?

With your aura and bursts, you can save spell points on some of the healing that a FvS would have to spend spell points on, but I hope that you're not going to claim that a splashed Cleric can have more spell points than a FvS without intentionally gimping the FvS.

18/1/1 Cleric
80 SP magical training
+1125 for 18 levels of Cleric
+378 for 38 Wisdom
+200 Archmagi
+150 Greensteel Concordant Opposition
Total: 1933 SP

20 FvS
80 SP magical training
+1650 for 20 levels of FvS
+174 for 22 Cha
+400 Archmagi
+300 Greensteel Concordant Opposition
Total: 2604 SP


Did I misunderstand what you were trying to claim for your Cleric builds?

[mystafyi]

cleric builds will win min maxed in every angle.

an cleric can asimulate other classes features and abilities while an fvs cannot.

*** are you talking about?

[erikbozelie]

18/1/1 Cleric
Total: 1933 SP

20 FvS
Total: 2604 SP


Did I misunderstand what you were trying to claim for your Cleric builds?

you missed triple stats. +200 sp for splash. hmm, it is not 1125 base for an level 18 cleric. think its 930

still, with only 2 tomes, i am looking at 2814 sp at level 20. with 28 turns. and yes. its because i am too lazy to do the grind needed and is not even focussed on getting the highest sp amount. think its already overkill for most quests.

build is provided in the link i gave you before.

[mystafyi]

still, with only 2 tomes, i am looking at 2814 sp at level 20. with 28 turns.

this i dont believe.

[erikbozelie]

this i dont believe.

post 142.
while i was just speculating back there to get it up higher. found out that 18/1/1 would give more sp then an 17/2/1.

changed an couple of things around, min maxed it abit. and i have gotten it up that high.

clerics are well capable of getting past 3k sp. and about 33 turns.
not gonna do that much grinding though.

edit: here is a link to my build

[gloopygloop]

post 142.
while i was just speculating back there to get it up higher. found out that 18/1/1 would give more sp then an 17/2/1.

changed an couple of things around, min maxed it abit. and i have gotten it up that high.

clerics are well capable of getting past 3k sp. and about 33 turns.
not gonna do that much grinding though.

edit: here is a link to my build

hmm, greatest thing about clerics being able to splash and assimilate other class features and abilities, so lets assimilate Fvs spell point pool!.

based on 40 wisdom and charisma. i think that would be reachable for an well specialised cleric / 16/18 wis / 16/18 wis

17 cleric: 1310 - 80
1 soc: 330 - 80
2 fvs: 395 - 80

magical training feat once: 80
mental toughness: 105
imp mental toughness: 105
soc past life active feat: 105.
archmagi: 200*1.15 : 230
greensteel: 150 * 1.15 : 172

cleric enhancement: 110
event trinket: 50

3X past life soc: 60
3X past life fvs: 60

results:
2872 spell points
28 turns times 116 sp = 3248sp worth of healing

even if you convince me to take the 60sp you suggested,
28 * 60 = 1680 sp. fvs still behind total.

If you're going to make that comparison, then let's compare apples to apples and give the FvS the same gear and past lives and enhancements.

20 FvS levels: 1650
magical training feat once: 80
mental toughness: 105
imp mental toughness: 105
soc past life active feat: 105.
archmagi: 200 * 2: 400
greensteel: 150 * 2: 300

FvS enhancement: 150
event trinket: 100

3X past life soc: 60
3X past life fvs: 60

Total spell points: 3010 vs 2872
Instead of Turn undead, FvS gets the healing capstone: Infinite spell points for healing vs 3248.

I also find it amusing that you ended up using a level of Favored Soul to "prove" that Cleric is better than FvS.

[erikbozelie]

If you're going to make that comparison, then let's compare apples to apples and give the FvS the same gear and past lives and enhancements.

Total spell points: 3010 vs 2872
Instead of Turn undead, FvS gets the healing capstone: Infinite spell points for healing vs 3248.

I also find it amusing that you ended up using a level of Favored Soul to "prove" that Cleric is better than FvS.

I notice you have not read an single line of the thread i gave you.

the infinite healing capstone equals the aura hitting 3 people. but requires no action other then pressing an button every 2 min.
its also been compared, and i also said it was not maximized for sp. think i can beat 3010.

this comparanson has been done.
healing capston < healing aura in terms of healing - lets asume regens are put in here
1 burst equals 116 sp of effects. been given in the post. 27 * 116 = 3132sp worth of bursting in effects.

cleric > fvs in every single possible specific build except wings. thats the last argument standing. and no. i am not kidding.

fvs wins at being mister average i guess. yes, you can get 3550 sp on an fvs. but would not compare the spell duration the cleric would get from bursts.

for the next arguments ill just keep referring to that thread. i do not really feel like wasting time on an topic that has already been over done.

[gloopygloop]

I notice you have not read an single line of the thread i gave you.

the infinite healing capstone equals the aura hitting 3 people. but requires no action other then pressing an button every 2 min.
its also been compared, and i also said it was not maximized for sp. think i can beat 3010.

this comparanson has been done.
healing capston < healing aura in terms of healing - lets asume regens are put in here
1 burst equals 116 sp of effects. been given in the post. 27 * 116 = 3132sp worth of bursting in effects.

cleric > fvs in every single possible specifik build except wings. thats the last argument standing. and no. i am not kidding.

fvs wins at being mister average i guess. yes, you can get 3550 sp on an fvs. but would not compare the spell duration the cleric would get from bursts.

Given that your splashed Cleric is also part FvS, I find your suggestion amusing.

There are also many times when your healing aura will hit fewer than 3 people and there are many times when you specifially need to heal one person above all others (which includes EVERY quest where you solo). In those situations, the healing capstone is obviously superior. Additionally, your aura is always centered on you and your bursts are always centered on you. There are many times when it's handy to heal someone that's halfway across the room.

As for beating 3010 SP - every single extra source of SP that you can give to a Cleric can also be given to a FvS. If you want to waste feats on Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness, that's cool for you, I guess. I'd rather take two useful feats and learn how to heal parties without spending spell points like a drunken sailor.

Honestly, the spell point difference between Clerics and FvS is not as enormous as most new players would think, but the truth is that you really don't need any more than the SP granted to a moderately geared Cleric without Aura and bursts to heal appropriately in all of the content in the game.

I happen to enjoy the heck out of my FvS because he's tough as nails and can heal and fight quite well even if his DC's are absolutely hideous (I'm convinced that enemies would actually get HP back if I cast Implosion ). I could easily build a Cleric that would work similarly just like I could build a FvS that is quite good at offensive casting (while still being tough as nails).

The real question isn't Cleric vs. FvS. The real question is melee vs. offensive casting. And with enough past lives, you don't even have to choose between those two because you can get both.

[countfitz]

[QUOTE=erikbozelie;4149971]a cleric can splash 3 classes, and maintain about every single important ability. while an fvs would lose about everything he's worth.

[QUOTE]

This. Pure fvs beats pure cleric at melee and spellcasting. Lose capstone though, and fvs sucks. Also means leveling is a pain in comparison. I've 2 of each, and the melee WF FvS took FOREVER to cap, it was so painful. The human casting FvS was fine, healbotted to cap, switched some stuff around, and he's a casting god. My main cleric is a healbot, and can't do anything else.

But it's my battle cleric that really shines. It can do pretty much everything, well, and is a blast to play and each level was fun leveling it up the entire time.

[mystafyi]

edit: here is a link to my build

so you give up heighten, any spell focus, any spell pen and toughness to be a hireling?

[erikbozelie]

Given that your splashed Cleric is also part FvS, I find your suggestion amusing.

There are also many times when your healing aura will hit fewer than 3 people and there are many times when you specifially need to heal one person above all others (which includes EVERY quest where you solo). In those situations, the healing capstone is obviously superior. Additionally, your aura is always centered on you and your bursts are always centered on you. There are many times when it's handy to heal someone that's halfway across the room.
or you have it proc on 12 people, at that time, you wont be able to catch up - healing capstone is nice for tod tanks, see thread, been discussed
hugging healers is not thing new.
-
As for beating 3010 SP - every single extra source of SP that you can give to a Cleric can also be given to a FvS. If you want to waste feats on Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness, that's cool for you, I guess. I'd rather take two useful feats and learn how to heal parties without spending spell points like a drunken sailor.


Honestly, the spell point difference between Clerics and FvS is not as enormous as most new players would think, but the truth is that you really don't need any more than the SP granted to a moderately geared Cleric without Aura and bursts to heal appropriately in all of the content in the game.
most clerics have uhm, about 2k sp, with 11 bursts(1160-116) versus 3k fvs. most players are about equal
I happen to enjoy the heck out of my FvS because he's tough as nails and can heal and fight quite well even if his DC's are absolutely hideous (I'm convinced that enemies would actually get HP back if I cast Implosion ). I could easily build a Cleric that would work similarly just like I could build a FvS that is quite good at offensive casting (while still being tough as nails).
they both rock, if all, i prefer 1 of each in every group, 1 fvs for main tank healing and 1 cleric for group healing. splashed cleric divine punishment is still casted at CL20. stacks with the little debuff bonuss off the fvs.

The real question isn't Cleric vs. FvS. The real question is melee vs. offensive casting. And with enough past lives, you don't even have to choose between those two because you can get both.
they can go both ways

1st clerical post build competition can do both melee and offensive casting. if there is an build specifically build to get the highest X in the game cleric wins by an tiny / moderate nose length.

I think the real question should be, what do you like playing?
they both rule. and work well together.

fvs are easier for people who do not know how to multiclass. that is an given. ( also i know turbine really tries to overhype the #$@$ out of theyre TP content)

But it's my battle cleric that really shines. It can do pretty much everything, well, and is a blast to play and each level was fun leveling it up the entire time.

right on.

[erikbozelie]

so you give up heighten, any spell focus, any spell pen and toughness to be a hireling?

you have not read an single line of that thread and i have an feeling you haven't of this one either. go do that.

[mystafyi]

you have not read an single line of that thread and i have an feeling you haven't of this one either. go do that.

here is a link to my build

I looked at your build link you provided me. dont get upset I wont read 18+ pages of text in an old thread.

[Matuse]

That's the problem with these threads, instead of just showing the basic differences between the classes, you get...people...like erik who just feel the need to whip it out to try and show how cool they think they are.

Don't respond to him. There's no point. Even when he's wrong, he won't admit it. You can't debate with someone like that.

[erikbozelie]

That's the problem with these threads, instead of just showing the basic differences between the classes, you get...people...like erik who just feel the need to whip it out to try and show how cool they think they are.

Don't respond to him. There's no point. Even when he's wrong, he won't admit it. You can't debate with someone like that.

250 posts later, and no one has been able to prove me wrong. wish someone did.

what i always try is to provide the math behind my statements. which i did. in that other thread. unlike the fvs in that thread which has been randomly throwing statements at the thread, see what sticks (until now thing except wings has). wait... steam boots. yeah!

i do not mind debating, but every statement out there has already been done, for 400+ posts on an row.

if theres any statement or vs build not done in that thread. please find and give it to me. i am glad to provide an build to build to bust it.

[mystafyi]

250 posts later, and no one has been able to prove me wrong. wish someone did.

you posted your build that required 6 past lives plus a 3 feats just for more spell points, just to be a hireling.

comparing a hireling build to any other build is impossible. If thats what you want to play then enjoy it.
You seem to have this view that everyone on the forums needs to either say your right or disprove you can play a hireling.