Explain to me why I should choose Favored Soul over Cleric

[Seamonkeysix]

250 posts later, and no one has been able to prove me wrong. wish someone did.

what i always try is to provide the math behind my statements. which i did. in that other thread. unlike the fvs in that thread which has been randomly throwing statements at the thread, see what sticks (until now thing except wings has). wait... steam boots. yeah!

i do not mind debating, but every statement out there has already been done, for 400+ posts on an row.

if theres any statement or vs build not done in that thread. please find and give it to me. i am glad to provide an build to build to bust it.

Instead of posting your theoretical build, maybe add a character to your sig so that people can actually see it. When you post a ton of "if I have this and this and this, then I could be possibly this"...it just looks like talk.

I have seen a ton of perfect scenario builds posted in the forums, but somehow, I rarely see those toons with the hoopla they are supposed to have. I can't figure out why somebody would have these uber toons, but be anonymous.

[gloopygloop]

if theres any statement or vs build not done in that thread. please find and give it to me. i am glad to provide an build to build to bust it.

How about the other way around? You provide a build with your highest effective DC and I'll post a FvS with an DC (including the Aura) that is higher.

Getting 2 free DC against anything that you happen to walk past is pretty sweet if you care about DCs.

Giving 2 free DC to the rest of your party against anything that you happen to walk past is even better.

[DeafeningWhisper]

I play a Cleric, he's a decent caster and great healer on his 1st and only live. I will have him at 500+ Hp pretty soon and 2.4k sp. Here's what little I know about the 2 classes: FvS have more inherent SP, a few extra bonuses which are nice (all already talked about), but Cleric's have something that helps a new healer quite a bit, flexibility.

If you have never player a healer been able to load the right spells before a quest or after shrining in-quest will help a lot, Aura and Burst will keep your party members around as well meaning less people will run off ahead of you.

Well the choice is simple really, what is your play style? Do you like healing in between doing damage? Go for FvS, if you like doing damage while healing stay cleric. A FvS can do more dps given their prestige while Clerics can heal about the same amounts if not a bit more but deal less damage. Basically a Cleric has little choice but be a good healer at all times a FvS can do more then that if built right. As long as he doesn't forget he's still a healer.

Edit: Forgot U already own a Cleric...

[glowbug]

ow joy, you said the forbidden sencence in spellcasting folder .

an cleric can splash 3 classes, and maintain about every single importent ability. while an fvs would lose about everything hes worth.

in other words:
an cleric can asimulate other classes features and abilities while an fvs cannot.

such can it asimulate the spell point pool of fvs and socs by going 18/1/1. or 17/2/1. depending on flavor and beat it in spell endurance, or take 2 monk / 1 roque for masive damage. theres unlimited ways to splash so and every plus on fvs soul side, is been discussed in a thread linked below.

every statement has been done, broken down. remade. reposted. repointed. confirmed and verrified and doesnt really need to be done again.

heres my old threads about this.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=332824 -
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4101679 - sortof continued here

it might bore you to read 250 posts but it humours me to see fvs try various ways to make the class look superior in every way which its not.

in every single specific build, it will lose by an noselength. but might win in the middle class of being mister average.

the only thing that is left standing are wings.

my current cleric projects - 600 dps, 80 ac, 400 hp. DR, DC40spell /48stun, epic trapsmithing, umd, - yes all in 1 toon.
2800sp healing cleric with 30 turns ( not bored enough to go higher(3k+. 33 turns), takes more grinding).

read the rest in those threads.

take care. hope i explained it abit to you.
zack.

PS. i am still bashing my head against the wall to make an fvs build that doesnt make me compare to cleric and cry.
also, my 2 chalanges builds to beat are also posted in that first thread, but up to this date, still unbeated by any fvs.

so unless something has changed very recently... you realize that splashing FVS and or Sorc into a cleric does not get you double SP from items right?

the mana bonus is based on class level, so a 2 FVS splash is 10% fvs (2/20) and would recieve 110% mana from items etc. (an 18 C / 1 FvS / 1 Sorc would get the same 110%)

the most mana I have ever seen a cleric have in game is 2500

[morticianjohn]

I'm thinking, that since it will only cost me $8, since I already have a few turbine points, that I may do that

Here's another question, what would be an optimal race for them, I usually choose human, but if there is a better for FvS, fill me in

In general I think playing cleric first is best because you get to mess around with all the spells before playing FvS and having the narrow spell selection

[gloopygloop]

so unless something has changed very recently... you realize that splashing FVS and or Sorc into a cleric does not get you double SP from items right?

the mana bonus is based on class level, so a 2 FVS splash is 10% fvs (2/20) and would recieve 110% mana from items etc. (an 18 C / 1 FvS / 1 Sorc would get the same 110%)

the most mana I have ever seen a cleric have in game is 2500

He's getting a fair number of SP from the several hundred SP that a character gets at 1st level as a FvS and Sorcerer.

I think that it's an amazingly stupid splash, but it does give more SP at the cost of general effectiveness, so it's a good move for a Cleric that wants to "prove" that Clerics can have lots of Spell Points. Just like a Human Barbarian can take 8 Toughness feats and ignore all DPS feats in order to have the highest possible HP.

He's also counting Radiant Bursts/Auras as large number of virtual spell points while ignorning the FvS healing capstone in any calculation comparison.

[ShaitainFerenczy]

I've played real D&D for years, since the late 80's. I've played both classes in tabletop.
Now, I know that DDO is different from tabletop.
In this game I have both a cleric (still level 8, but fun to play) and a level 20 fvs named Marillith.
Neither class is better/worse than the other, it really depends on what you want to play and your playing style.
Most of Marillith's levels where soloed, and Bathroy is slower at soloing.
My FvS was built on a balanced plan for roughly equal healing/spell damage and melee.
My cleric is on a plan for max healing. Her melee and offensive spells are lacking, but mostly due to lack of proper gear on my part. Working on that.
Currently my fvs has 2900sp with 3100 coming with the completion of a conc op necklace. Will make a similar item for my cleric later. Am wondering what the final sp will be.

When trying to prove which is better, both classes have many variables and builds possible, making it, difficult? ( not sure if correct wording), to compare them.
I know that my bard at lvl 20 on her first life was out-healing a lot of clerics/fvs, but that was chiefly due to build on my part and lack of player ability on their part.

[Mellkor]

Sometimes it is best to just let some folks keep on talking.

You just cant convince some people, even if the truth is staring them in the face.

[LOOON375]

No class in this game is better overall than any other class. They all have their differences. While a particular class may be better in a certain area than another class, they are also weaker than that other class in certain areas.

Clerics and FS's have to be played differently because they are different.

Play the game and have fun with it and figure out what YOU like better.

[Mubjon]

Since i have started playing other classes beyond my cleric I will say that I typically turn down FvS for parties I run.

If it is not the class, then the players that select them are sub-par at being beneficial to the party structure. Go swing that axe or sword all you want, but if you are the only one in the group that can cast a cure spell best be casting it when it is needed.

So far the FvS I have ran into hardly carry the cure spells for their level and I am tired of asking if they can fill that spot that I am looking for and that they applied too. If the only icons up are for a Cleric/FvS/Bard then best believe that someone is needed to help heal those that cannot do it in the heat of battle.

[gloopygloop]

Since i have started playing other classes beyond my cleric I will say that I typically turn down FvS for parties I run.

If it is not the class, then the players that select them are sub-par at being beneficial to the party structure. Go swing that axe or sword all you want, but if you are the only one in the group that can cast a cure spell best be casting it when it is needed.

So far the FvS I have ran into hardly carry the cure spells for their level and I am tired of asking if they can fill that spot that I am looking for and that they applied too. If the only icons up are for a Cleric/FvS/Bard then best believe that someone is needed to help heal those that cannot do it in the heat of battle.

What level quests are you running? There's a big difference between level 5 FvS and level 20 FvS. Most of the people who play the way you describe give up on the class long before they hit the cap.

[Mubjon]

What level quests are you running? There's a big difference between level 5 FvS and level 20 FvS. Most of the people who play the way you describe give up on the class long before they hit the cap.

I have characters in the mid levels (8 to 14) and higher level content (14+) so I have tried it with a few different level breaks.

I should also note that I have taken it to make a list of those healers that I have ran with in raids and separated them in the do not run with again and good healer. And out of the 10 or so in the never run with again comments 9 are FvS and some are level 20.

I am not one of those that believe that just because you can heal that is all you have to do. However, I do know that as a divine you can melee/offensive cast/ and still keep the party going in a quest as long as the party is not doing stupid things.

Because I have played a divine to cap and have another on another server at mid levels, all my characters are able to heal themselves after the battle and I only need help with healing while I am wailing away on something as I cannot heal myself with a pot or scroll as quickly as it can be cast from someone with divine healing. I do not think it is too much to ask that those with the ability to heal and have joined a group with the Cleric/FvS/Bard icons only available to know when to heal and when to do other things. And yes I place bards in that category as a healer because they can provide that support pretty easily.

[morticianjohn]

Since i have started playing other classes beyond my cleric I will say that I typically turn down FvS for parties I run.

If it is not the class, then the players that select them are sub-par at being beneficial to the party structure. Go swing that axe or sword all you want, but if you are the only one in the group that can cast a cure spell best be casting it when it is needed.

So far the FvS I have ran into hardly carry the cure spells for their level and I am tired of asking if they can fill that spot that I am looking for and that they applied too. If the only icons up are for a Cleric/FvS/Bard then best believe that someone is needed to help heal those that cannot do it in the heat of battle.

Some of the worst players I know are clerics. I have never seen a FvS beyond lvl 10-12 that was bad. The amount of grind or TP it costs to unlock FvS means that in general you're getting a higher quality player. So many clerics are F2P or just starting out.

While there are oddities out there (had a FvS who called us classest for expecting him to heal part 4 of the shroud when one of the clerics died) in general you're getting a higher quality player in a FvS than you are with a CLR. With that said, you're also more likely to get a "healbot" if you get a random cleric which seems to be what you're looking for. Because you're looking for a healbot which is a sub par divine class this could explain why you're experience differs so greatly from the majority of the posters to this point in the thread. Another possibility is that you've got such a small sample size (10 players) that any conclusions you draw from this data would be suspect at best.

[Disturbed_Whisper]

Can someone tell me if Favored Soul Smiting type, where it increases light spell & align output works on healing spells as well?

[Candela90]

Since i have started playing other classes beyond my cleric I will say that I typically turn down FvS for parties I run.

If it is not the class, then the players that select them are sub-par at being beneficial to the party structure. Go swing that axe or sword all you want, but if you are the only one in the group that can cast a cure spell best be casting it when it is needed.

So far the FvS I have ran into hardly carry the cure spells for their level and I am tired of asking if they can fill that spot that I am looking for and that they applied too. If the only icons up are for a Cleric/FvS/Bard then best believe that someone is needed to help heal those that cannot do it in the heat of battle.

Lol. Totally... lol.
I never met dumb fvs, but keep meeting dumb "battle clerics" who dont think they should heal, they run ahead, and die.
But i figured out its because clerics is free class to play.
Yes i know great clerics, but i know a lot of dumb clerics.
Never met dumb fvs.
Maybe its case of good/bad luck.

I

[gloopygloop]

Can someone tell me if Favored Soul Smiting type, where it increases light spell & align output works on healing spells as well?

Favored Soul Smiting is worth taking just for Divine Punishment alone once you start getting into raids, but it does not have any effect on healing spells. Only Life Magic/Prayer of Life/Prayer of Incredible Life have an effect on healing spells. And of those three enhancement lines, the only one that I think FvS should take past the first point invested is Life Magic, because you can't count on critical heals.

[morticianjohn]

Favored Soul Smiting is worth taking just for Divine Punishment alone once you start getting into raids, but it does not have any effect on healing spells. Only Life Magic/Prayer of Life/Prayer of Incredible Life have an effect on healing spells. And of those three enhancement lines, the only one that I think FvS should take past the first point invested is Life Magic, because you can't count on critical heals.

Yeah, this is what I did. I respecced when DP came out so that I took the entire smiting line including the crits and I dropped the life magic back because if you're counting on a heal spell to crit you're probably out of luck anyway.

[Matuse]

First tier on the heal crit enhancements are worth it. They're very cheap, and the bonus is nice when it kicks in. With greater arcane lore, it's pretty rare that a mass cure/heal doesn't crit on at least ONE person.