How viable is Vampire form from lvl 12-18 ?

[lppmor]

Pretty simple question:

How viable (considering the abusive light vulnerability) is playing with Vampire form from lvl 12 to 18? I would really enjoy it instead of Wraith (yet I still like Wraith too)..

[Such755]

It pretty much means that if you go into a party, you must announce "Prepare for 10% XP loss", beause you'll die.
A lot of mobs cast light spells, like sunburst, that just deal way too much damage.
The +2 enchant focus from that form is insignificant, I never had a problem with enchantment spells at those levels, and the other benefits are good if you wanna melee stuff... So just stick to wraith.

[Aashrym]

If you are WF and use vamp form situationally maybe, and WF self healing. The light vulnerability for a vampire form is absolutely nasty.

[Such755]

If you are WF and use vamp form situationally maybe, and WF self healing. The light vulnerability for a vampire form is absolutely nasty.

Actualy you can't use repair in any undead form, so being a warfoged doesn't change much =P

[Lord_Thanatos]

X4 light vulnerability is just insane to deal with. Some light spells already do extra damage to undead. That then gets mulitpied. Mob clerics love to spam searing light and you also deal with sun burst in that level range.


Just imagine running with the devils in vamp form. / shudders

[lppmor]

Thanks for the replies. But I was afraid to hear all that
So much vulnerability to the point of becoming unplayable is a little too much. Hmm, but I think there are still time before U12 release to tweak that a little bit, devs..

[varusso]

Vamp form...sucks.
Use wraith to 18 then switch to lich. You get a free feat swap from the marketplace quest, so you can ditch mental toughness for something else if you dont want to keep it.

And dont hold your breath. We have told the devs since it was still on lammaland that vamp was a piece of ****.

This was MY suggestion on how to fix that nonsense, while still retaining a reasonable amount of vulnerability to balance the PM's uberness:

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...12&postcount=9

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...01#post3848701

[Galeria]

Knowing your enemy can help.

I love vampire form on my pale monk build but I doublecheck to see what I'm fighting in an upcoming quest to know whether I want to go unarmed vampire melee or stick to wraith casting form. If it's a quest where there are a lot of shaman/cleric/menders casting light, stick to wraith.

However when grouping with people I know, I hang back a little and let them take out the casters first (or use double-distance ray spells on them) then hop in and melee in vampire form.

It's definitely not good for soloing/zerging vale quests, as an example but still doable with a party and some smart tactics.

[Aashrym]

Actualy you can't use repair in any undead form, so being a warfoged doesn't change much =P

The idea is to not be in undead form. WF can repair when not in undead form while they can death aura in undead form. In order to NOT DIE to light damage in some areas.

That gives the option of using vamp form some of the time if the player really wants it. It's a work around.

[Aashrym]

Thanks for the replies. But I was afraid to hear all that
So much vulnerability to the point of becoming unplayable is a little too much. Hmm, but I think there are still time before U12 release to tweak that a little bit, devs..

It's not completely unplayable, but while you are in an area with mobs launching light spells you will die so it's either drop the form or die. Not being able to make use of it all of the time kills it in popularity. I skip that one too as a poor choice. I just use wraith form instead.

[LeLoric]

Even without the vulnerability I would go wraith form for those levels anyways. incorp miss chance, faster speed, etc these are much more useful for fast leveling than the benefits of vamp.

[varusso]

The idea is to not be in undead form. WF can repair when not in undead form while they can death aura in undead form. In order to NOT DIE to light damage in some areas.

That gives the option of using vamp form some of the time if the player really wants it. It's a work around.

You give up alot to be WF if you are already planning on being PM. The point to PM is to be self-reliant and self-healing. If you have to shift out of form to use alrenate forms of healing, then it is pointless. And yes, I have a WF PM -- among others

The real issue is that a PRE should not be a liability in the majority of content. And the vamp form makes it even more so. So much so that the majority of players wont even consider it unless they just want it for a flavor build of some sort.

[Aashrym]

You give up alot to be WF if you are already planning on being PM. The point to PM is to be self-reliant and self-healing. If you have to shift out of form to use alrenate forms of healing, then it is pointless. And yes, I have a WF PM -- among others

The real issue is that a PRE should not be a liability in the majority of content. And the vamp form makes it even more so. So much so that the majority of players wont even consider it unless they just want it for a flavor build of some sort.

You give up needing to be in undead form for self healing by going WF and gain CON over the INT bonus a human, elf, or helf would get. You gain immunities while not in undead form.

The only reason I brought it up was because self healing is still a good way to go and if a person wants to go vampire he would still have good self healing options for those times the vulnerability is an issue. The whole idea behind mentioning it was to help somebody with what he wanted.

[slimkj]

Even without the vulnerability I would go wraith form for those levels anyways. incorp miss chance, faster speed, etc these are much more useful for fast leveling than the benefits of vamp.

For a change on my current Wiz TR I'm keeping Zombie all the way to 18 because on this life I don't want any miss chance.

[lppmor]

Even without the vulnerability I would go wraith form for those levels anyways. incorp miss chance, faster speed, etc these are much more useful for fast leveling than the benefits of vamp.

I like wraith too. I wish I could go vampire mainly because the Mental Toughness prerequisite is killing my feat planning. I'll have to delay additional feats till lvl 15 to go vampire. Not the end of the world, sure, but anyway..

[varusso]

You give up needing to be in undead form for self healing by going WF and gain CON over the INT bonus a human, elf, or helf would get. You gain immunities while not in undead form.

The only reason I brought it up was because self healing is still a good way to go and if a person wants to go vampire he would still have good self healing options for those times the vulnerability is an issue. The whole idea behind mentioning it was to help somebody with what he wanted.

You also give up the extra feat for being human, as well as higher DCs, and the TWO extra feats or spell pen (and extra SP) for being elf. The immunities you can gain from spells/items, and you dont have to worry about rabid cockroaches trying to eat you. And that doesnt even include scroll-healing. All of this just to get self healing on a toon that already has it from the PRE that they are afraid to use.

Like I said, I have a WF PM (as well as other races). I also have other arcane casters who are WF, and have HAD several. You give up alot to get something you already have.

[Aashrym]

You also give up the extra feat for being human, as well as higher DCs, and the TWO extra feats or spell pen (and extra SP) for being elf. The immunities you can gain from spells/items, and you dont have to worry about rabid cockroaches trying to eat you. And that doesnt even include scroll-healing. All of this just to get self healing on a toon that already has it from the PRE that they are afraid to use.

Like I said, I have a WF PM (as well as other races). I also have other arcane casters who are WF, and have HAD several. You give up alot to get something you already have.

He gets the DC bonus in vamp form on enchantments. Players give up that DC anyway by not going vampire.

He can't give up the bonuses for being human and being elf because those are exclusive of each other as well. He's either giving up and extra feat and 1 point of INT and 1 skill point per level or he's giving up spell penetration bonus but not both because taking either means giving up the other. In your elf example he's giving up -2 CON to get +2 CON and the same DC's while still being able to reach suitable spell penetration.

WF PM's are pretty common. I'm pointing out to a player that this would be his best option to cover the weakness in vamp form if he really wants to do that. I don't need to tell him vamp form is not recommended by a lot of players because a lot of players have already done that for him.

Don't nitpick the reasons when WF PM is perfectly viable.

[LeLoric]

For a change on my current Wiz TR I'm keeping Zombie all the way to 18 because on this life I don't want any miss chance.

Yeah I would stay zombie over vamp if you have no desire for wraith. -2 int does suck but dc's still aren't overly hard to get with that -1. +2 con and some dr are nice.

[charmor]

Yeah I would stay zombie over vamp if you have no desire for wraith. -2 int does suck but dc's still aren't overly hard to get with that -1. +2 con and some dr are nice.

Zombie is nice for a caster, but in my case there's no way to go zombie since I'm planing to melee a lot. That slow attack speed and specially the truncated animation kills all melee possibility

I think wraith will be the guy, really.

[Darknark]

Zombie is nice for a caster, but in my case there's no way to go zombie since I'm planing to melee a lot. That slow attack speed and specially the truncated animation kills all melee possibility

I think wraith is the guy, really.

The reason they say zombie to 18 is to take advantage of maximum number of Torc/conc-op procs and/or other guard effects that TR's are more likely to have.

Wraith would give you 25% (iirc) less of those (via miss chance)

Soulsto--- I mean vampire is just annoying to use most of the time [Due to an abundance of "divine" type enemies that spam light spells] (I have it for the sole purpose of getting 1 extra Enchant DC when solo CCing in epics [still 99.9% of the time I use lich and just wail the mobs])

For an < 18, that leave zombie.

EDIT: Also, come u12, The "shroud of the abbot" (iirc) should be getting Light resistance 20, and upgradable to light resistance 30. Great for any PM (mainly TR's, its ML 14 iirc).