End of the week with Major Malphunktion - Kobold Union Edition

[Razcar]

I agree with Razcar that Maj is not the person that we should be complaining to.

However, the people that we *should* complain to on the forums (Tolero and Cordovan and Fernando and whoever took Victorie's former position) have been hiding recently, so Maj is all we have.

It's unfortunate that people (myself included) bring our issues to the only official Turbine people who show up to talk to us, but the biggest reason for that is that the official Turbine people who we should talk to don't show up in threads often enough.

I can both understand and sympathize with that. But if we swamp him (Maj) with questions, requests and criticism about things he can do nothing about, we might "loose" him.

Apparently (as they've said themselves) the DDO staff - of course apart from the Community Reps - have no "Customer Interaction" listed in their work deliverables. So they don't have to talk with us, and only do so if they feel like it. (I heard a rumor that when WB took over they wanted the devs to communicate more but that was obviously false.)

And while I would love to have some devs here (or even Marketing people, like B. Ogre wants to address in his posts) discussing all kinds of hows and whys like Codog used to do (and no, we don't need any whens), we don't. They don't have to talk to us, and there's nothing we can do about it - no picket signs saying "we are the customers" etc. will change that. ("Being nice to the devs" won't help since we are thousands of people, not one person. There will always be some that are unhappy.)

Maj does provide very valuable information about current bugs and QA (and football ), and that's great. Let's not chase him into the same dungeon as where the DDO developers are hiding.

[Flavilandile]

I can both understand and sympathize with that. But if we swamp him (Maj) with questions, requests and criticism about things he can do nothing about, we might "loose" him.

I know you know Razcar *grins*.
But for all the rest of the pack, think about it a minute, it could be really really worse in the communication department. It could be what we endured in the hands of CM in Europe. So as Raz said, be nice to the Kobold, he is doing a great job talking to us.

If we have complains, requests, querries that are not QA related we should put them through Tolero and Cordovan.
WE can nag the Kobolds ( Kookie and Maj ) all we want when it comes to QA related things, but the rest should be dispatched appropriately to the right persons.

[BOgre]

(or even Marketing people, like B. Ogre wants to address in his posts)

It's not just that. It's about cohesion, it's about the bigger picture, open communication, professionalism, and a whole lot more. Maj is here talking to us because he l ike the idea of talking to us, brought it to the attention of someone who could make that call, and then got tasked with the admittedly unhappy job of doing it. On TOP of his regular job description. I've thanked him for it. And though it seems like I'm on his case, I'm really in his corner. See, he didn't even know about the ZAM article. And if I was in his place, that is if I'd been tasked with talking to the players, and if the Tolero's and Cordovan's and whoever elses in my company were 'in hiding' as you put it, and I was suddenly faced with a situation like this one. I'd be pretty angry. I'd be going to my bosses and asking why the heck _I_ wasn't notified that the release date was out. I'd be demanding some better INTERNAL communication, so that I could do my own job better and not get caught flat footed the next time.

What people here seem to commonly forget is that when we (yes, I mean WE, I'm not the only one) complain, and whine and ask questions that can't be answered under current policy, is that we're trying to help. We see something wrong and point it out so that it can be discussed and maybe fixed. Siding with the apologists, taking it in stride, getting used to it, and all the other complacent nonsense does nothing but tell Turbine that mistakes are OK. You think I spend a couple hours of my free time every day reading and writing on here just to see my name in print? Sure, some ppl are like that, but for them there's Twitter. The whiners and complainers here love the game; spouting off is our way to contribute to the health of the game.

[Missing_Minds]

It's not just that. It's about cohesion, it's about the bigger picture, open communication, professionalism, and a whole lot more.

translation... You want McDonalds. Your way right away.

And you know what? That is fine. You are completely entitled to your opinion. Just as we are to our own.

[gloopygloop]

translation... You want McDonalds. Your way right away.

And you know what? That is fine. You are completely entitled to your opinion. Just as we are to our own.

I'd be happy to just get someone to come out and say that we're not getting it our way. What we get most of the time now is dead silence. I'm not asking for McDonalds (that slogan belonged to Burger King, by the way). I'm just asking that someone be available to answer our questions when we have them - even if the answer to our questions is "no" or "we don't have a final decision on that yet".

It's not fair to Maj that we end up asking him these things, but it's also not fair to us as players that he and occasionally MadFloyd are the only ones who are willing to be open with us on a semi-regular basis.

[MrkGrismer]

(it's now day ZAM+2 without official word).

If you got to Za-hadum, you will die...

Sorry, just popped into my head. Means nothing... I assure you.

[Zenako]

Pretty darn sure that if there is actually a release date set, that QA is more than aware of that date. What he might not be in the loop about would be the public disclosure of that date. Turbine is a large enough company that it is not hard to see the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing sometimes. It is also still small enough that those hands should be able to get together and work things out when needed.

Thanks Maj for the closest thing we have had to the old posts from the devs from the years before the deep dark void engulfed all things knowledge....Plus you add a nice bit of humor and hometown Pats rooting on top...

Please play a better game this week guys...that was a sadly ineffective performance against the Steelers last week. (Looked like you did not read the memo that the bye week was over already...sigh)

[Missing_Minds]

I'd be happy to just get someone to come out and say that we're not getting it our way. What we get most of the time now is dead silence. I'm not asking for McDonalds (that slogan belonged to Burger King, by the way). I'm just asking that someone be available to answer our questions when we have them - even if the answer to our questions is "no" or "we don't have a final decision on that yet".

It's not fair to Maj that we end up asking him these things, but it's also not fair to us as players that he and occasionally MadFloyd are the only ones who are willing to be open with us on a semi-regular basis.

Oops. Guess that show how much fast food I've been eating for me to forget who actually had that slogan.

Please remember there is a complete difference between "willing to be open" and "having the time to be open". The Developers are paid to work, i.e. create content, fix bugs, draw new scenes, etc. as their job entails. I don't know of any developer that actually has "peruse the forums, and keep an active presence" as part of their responsibilities. They have stated this in the past and players always seem to forget a developer has no responsibility to be showing up here no matter how much players may demand it.

I think it may have been A_D (and I apologize if I'm wrong.) that stated that it should be part of their responsibilities if they want to actually create content that players want. Well, that opens up a different topic honestly. But the bottom line is they aren't paid to do that, so it doesn't matter what opinions we have. They have to do what gets them paid so they can provide for their own families. I don't think any of us would argue that one.

Also players have the habit of taking anything spoken as "The Word" and equates it to "Not Going To Change." When in reality, things do change, and they are giving their best responses which can be over ruled by higher ups. What then? Players revolt, there is nothing the dev can do, dev leaves forums.

Between work responsibilities and this, is why they don't post like they used to. Now mind you, this says nothing about the lack of monthly informational updates, greater than a year postings of the state of the game, etc.

If you got to Za-hadum, you will die...
Sorry, just popped into my head. Means nothing... I assure you.

Great.. make me think of the B5 intro that was riddled with quotes. What was that.. season 3? 4? I forget. Really should pick that up on dvd at some point.

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

Pretty darn sure that if there is actually a release date set, that QA is more than aware of that date. What he might not be in the loop about would be the public disclosure of that date. Turbine is a large enough company that it is not hard to see the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing sometimes. It is also still small enough that those hands should be able to get together and work things out when needed.

Thanks Maj for the closest thing we have had to the old posts from the devs from the years before the deep dark void engulfed all things knowledge....Plus you add a nice bit of humor and hometown Pats rooting on top...

Please play a better game this week guys...that was a sadly ineffective performance against the Steelers last week. (Looked like you did not read the memo that the bye week was over already...sigh)

I know what the 'proposed' release date is. I won't know the release date until my team approves the build. It is not my place to say anything like an official release date. Sorry.

Yes, I don't pay a too much attention to what websites are reporting what at this point in a release.

Pats defense is not statistically in the top 10 worst of ALL TIME. Even playing as bad as they did, a good team would have beaten the Pats by 40, not by 7 or 8 whatever it was. Do be fooled Steelers nation, you guys still kinda stink. See you in the playoffs.

[BOgre]

I know what the 'proposed' release date is. I won't know the release date until my team approves the build. It is not my place to say anything like an official release date. Sorry.

Yes, I don't pay a too much attention to what websites are reporting what at this point in a release.

Good to know, and thanks for the clarification. For me, this issue isn't about what's being reported, but what's being said by Fernando (this here, and last time was Arti-unlock), versus what your team is being told, versus what we're being told.

It's interesting to note, that Fernando cites Nov 9 as 'the' release date to the media, who then reports it as such, when in truth there are still steps to be taken before the real date can be known...

So bottom line is that the ZAM article is discredited, and a hole in internal comms needs to be addressed? Or am I oversimplifying, or reading more into what you've said than was intended?

[Missing_Minds]

So bottom line is that the ZAM article is discredited, and a hole in internal comms needs to be addressed? Or am I oversimplifying, or reading more into what you've said than was intended?

The latter. The world is not black and white which is how you are seemingly trying to paint it.

People are doing the best they can with tools/information they have.

The 9th is the scheduled/target date and is what Fernando/ZAM have publicly announced. Final QA acceptance has not yet happened, so the date is not firm. The build can (and has in the past) failed, pushing back release dates.

[gloopygloop]

Please remember there is a complete difference between "willing to be open" and "having the time to be open". The Developers are paid to work, i.e. create content, fix bugs, draw new scenes, etc. as their job entails. I don't know of any developer that actually has "peruse the forums, and keep an active presence" as part of their responsibilities. They have stated this in the past and players always seem to forget a developer has no responsibility to be showing up here no matter how much players may demand it.

I don't have a problem with any of that. I think that it's delightful that the developers occasionally come to the forums and I'm thrilled that Maj comes here fairly often.

It would be nice if the community specialists also spent some time answering questions too, though.

I think it may have been A_D (and I apologize if I'm wrong.) that stated that it should be part of their responsibilities if they want to actually create content that players want. Well, that opens up a different topic honestly. But the bottom line is they aren't paid to do that, so it doesn't matter what opinions we have. They have to do what gets them paid so they can provide for their own families. I don't think any of us would argue that one.

They do have some people who are paid to do that, though. Unless they eliminated those positions.

Also players have the habit of taking anything spoken as "The Word" and equates it to "Not Going To Change." When in reality, things do change, and they are giving their best responses which can be over ruled by higher ups. What then? Players revolt, there is nothing the dev can do, dev leaves forums.

But when no one from Turbine can even publicly say, "we know that you have questions about [x] and we don't yet have a final answer for you. please know that we are still considering the issue and that we haven't forgotten about you," that really does speak volumes about their attitude toward the game's players. Especially when it's about issues that will end up getting players banned if Turbine decides that the answer is "no" like trading TP for items/items for TP.

There are people at Turbine who are paid to be community support. MajMalphunktion shouldn't end up as the only one shouldering our questions.

[mystafyi]

Final QA acceptance has not yet happened, so the date is not firm. The build can (and has in the past) failed, pushing back release dates.

LOLOLOL are you serious? The only way QA could stop a patch/update from hitting live servers would be if there was something involved that would harm the database in some way.
Sorry but even Maj would agree that you are Missing_Minds

[Steiner-Davion]

Spoken like someone who was not here during the dark ages after Mod 8, leading up to the Free to Play Announcement and the legal issues with Atari!

You're absolutely right on everything you've said here. I mean, you have to be, just look at your join date. Because a forum join date must mean that date is the first day, or the first time, a person has ever played an MMO before, or a video game in general.

Apparently you don't spend enough time on the forums to see how many people the game loses after every single update, because of poor decisions and lack of fixing serious issues. Mass amounts of people leaving, because of lack of communication isn't surprising. I'm willing to bet more people would have stuck around, had Turbine actually communicated with the community about what was going on. So that previous situation would be fairly different from them letting us know why no new content isn't being released, and why it's all bug/lag fixes, while still being active on the forums.

Maybe I am in the minority, when it comes to bug fixing vs new content. That's fine, it's just my opinion. But I can honestly say I'd rather see bugs and lag being fixed, instead of content like these new "challenges" (that I got bored with after playing 2 rounds), or the UI changes from U11, or Artificers (instead of Druids).

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

LOLOLOL are you serious? The only way QA could stop a patch/update from hitting live servers would be if there was something involved that would harm the database in some way.
Sorry but even Maj would agree that you are Missing_Minds

Not true. That is the part you don't see.

[Aashrym]

Not true. That is the part you don't see.

That just makes me curious what criteria you would use to not approve the release.

[MRH]

I would use the Cooking criteria....

Is it ready for the consumer ? Is it good ? Is it complete ? Is the cake full of bugs?

If you answered Y , Y , Y , N then it is ready for release :>P

If you answered N, Y, N, Y then just release it along with a release note to the table for the customer with whats wrong with the cake.


Seriously tho , Maj can you please let us know that the hirelings are gettin fixed LOL ! Back to pre 3 updates ago.....

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

That just makes me curious what criteria you would use to not approve the release.

Rational thought usually.

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

I would use the Cooking criteria....

Is it ready for the consumer ? Is it good ? Is it complete ? Is the cake full of bugs?

If you answered Y , Y , Y , N then it is ready for release :>P

If you answered N, Y, N, Y then just release it along with a release note to the table for the customer with whats wrong with the cake.


Seriously tho , Maj can you please let us know that the hirelings are gettin fixed LOL ! Back to pre 3 updates ago.....

Hirelings no longer rage and run into the breach.

[Aashrym]

Rational thought usually.

I approve of this approach. I would hate to think the new turbine has this new and innovative approach because the old turbine based such things on irrational thoughts though.

I was more curious if it's actually happened and what kind of things would trigger it. It would be pretty sweet to respond to QA bashers with, "Look what could have happened...."

Sounds like an interesting 'what if' thread.