End of the week with Major Malphunktion - Kobold Union Edition

[t0r012]

Because you can't pay non-employees for bug hunting. See: http://www.gamespy.com/articles/492/492177p1.html

Did I fix something? I don't fix a thing. I just tell people they are busted.
Exploits- just PM me, Kookie...well, anybody.

Edit...I laugh at you for thinking you are ok with nothing new for a year. You folks are already asking about the next thing! Easy to type, but you all would be raging by Dec. if you knew there was nothing in the pipeline until Nov 2012.
And it would not be bug free. It is a statistical impossibility. Mostly free? Pretty Clean? Sure...bug free...never. There is a reason they are called bugs, squashing them is like trying to kill an cockroach infestation.

Programmers drinking song

1000 little handwrap bugs in the code
Take one down n' pass it around
1001 little handwrap bugs in the code
Take one down pass it around
1002 little handwrap bugs in the code .....

Keep going till you can't stand anymore without falling over.

-----
I'm not taking a shot here I just took a funny thing my wife ( a programmer) has on her wall and DDO'efied it.
Unlike most monks I don't get too upset at the handwrap issues , as I have dabbled in some coding and even from my limited experience I know they must be an absolute. &!?!' to code.
But please don't break the ghosttouch again just as I'm starting a new monk and farming deleras and shadow crypt again , that really sucked.

[Sarezar]

Give them a chance, remember sometimes it is about *fun* and not about *loot*

Loot IS fun...

I don't mind the challenges, I think they are fun. But be careful not to change DDO to a facebook game. I don't know what everyone thinks but I'd guess most people who play DDO like the fantasy setting and the idea of completing meaningful quests. Storytelling already suffers a lot in DDO, random "throw Kobolds to buildings" quests don't help in that aspect.

[t0r012]

A quick comment about this, one that I have wanted to make several times but always held off for one reason or another.

Currently (as it is on lamma) there are favor rewards (artificer) and some itemization rewards (loot) which are unique to the new challenges. This means that, by its very nature, its about the rewards/loot on a very tangible level. That holds true of everything in any MMO which has only one avenue of acquisition.

For those of us who would like to have fun (playing an artificer, or having some of the new loot effects which are not, and have no history of being, integrated backwards through the game) we are forced into grinding the content, whether we consider said content fun or not; or be faced with giving up hopes of having fun with the target reward in the first place.

I suppose it could be said that Artificer has another avenue of acquisition, which is true even if I find the idea of simply buying it of little appeal personally. And the items are hardly mandatory to experience most of the game. So please don't interpret this as any kind of illogical request to simply be handed everything because the game is unplayable otherwise.

My point is, for your original statement there to really be applicable, there would have to be alternative ways to go about most things in the game. Which is, ironically, what DDO was originally about: it flat out intentionally tried to make quests playable by killing, stealthing, using turn undead, etc... there was a whole example worked up with how different classes might get around some undead and traps using different abilities which was used a lot in the initial promotion postings. Now, more and more quests are being changed to force only one method, with required kills all over the place, only one path to go, immunities or removal of all kinds of abilities, etc.

I'd like for there to be more in the future. But I'd also like that variety back, where you have choices about how to quest, and more than one way to get the chest at the end. Please implore whoever is in charge of that, of looking at ways to integrate effects elsewhere, or in multiple places. And try to add quests with more than one path, without required kills every 10 feet, without barring effects or adding immunities to everything.

Like some bridge you need to cross, where you fight the troll on the bridge and he doesnt agro until you walk too far past him while in his perception range. So you could fight him, or waterwalk across off to the side and avoid him, or sneak past him, or can hail him and diplo to pay his toll since he wont agro initially, or bluff him without paying and have a short window of time before he figures it out and then agros if youre still around in his range, and have like a half dozen ways of dealing with that one objective. Poor example perhaps but its not like I spent more than a moment on it.

Partycrashers, as one example, is close with a lot of optionals that use different abilities, but at the end of the day theres really one 1-2 ways to do each of them. And, its not really dealing with main objectives different ways, so much as it is doing side quests. Expand that, so different classes/builds/skills/abilities/items are useful each step of the way. People can use a lot of different abilities to complete the main objective and get the same main chest/reward, and instead of having lfms that are like 'need diplo for more loot' or 'casters only' you might get 'need 1 person for troll, anything works' with the emphasis back on different classes bringing cool abilities to the table not just differing dps numbers. With maybe 200 favor available so we only need half of it, so we can pick and choose whats required to grind instead of having only one option.

I realize thats basically a request for more content, in larger chunks at a time, with a higher complexity in each piece. So perhaps an unreasonable request, and if so fair enough. But until theres a larger level of latitude in how to approach things, it kind of is about the rewards. Because without them, in a game where you just play for the sake of playing content for fun, no one would repeat quests the number of times we are required to in order to get loot. People do that because its fun to use the rewards in future quests, not because they enjoy shroud for the 500th time. Anyhow, thats what I would like to see to justify the fun not loot comment, in a general sense. Shrug, just 2 cents, thanks.

This ^

More "stealth repossession " less "kobold assault"
Don't get me wrong I like a good beat down as much as the next guy but it is the variety that makes DDO different and better and that has been sorely lacking for quite a while.
Yes a nifty puzzle in a beat down is better than none but it isnt the flavor this game needs to keep it differentiated.

[WanderingGrump]

maybe because we didn't see that bug, hard to put something on a list if you dont know about it.
This goes back to 'you have no idea how big this game is from the inside' that I've mentioned. QA is a spec ops team, not a branch of the Armed Forces. When things break outside of where the scope of the release is, yes it will be missed. If we did a full regression every release, we would do one release a year. Since that would suck for everyone involved-including you guys, I need to go with picking prime targets. Custom UI was not on the target list, and from our perspective there was no reason it should have been.

Your GMs replay that it's a known bug and close tickets out so if it's not a bug what is it considered?

As far as prime targets are concerned is the in game "Report a Bug" on the list?

[MnaSidhe]

Edit...I laugh at you for thinking you are ok with nothing new for a year. You folks are already asking about the next thing! Easy to type, but you all would be raging by Dec. if you knew there was nothing in the pipeline until Nov 2012.

I laugh at you for laughing at me.
Really I would be okay with no new content until nov 2012...
Really really.
If it meant some of the bugs got cleaned up... being able to play with working handwraps would be like new content! et cetera

[Havok.cry]

When is u11 going live? Can you hurry and release u12... Seriously hurry up already (jk)

[Terminus-Est]

I gotta say, I've been pretty impressed with the current fast pace of updates and releases for DDO. I'm used to seeing my favorite games start off with a strong development (by an individual for the smaller ones, or a group for the commercial ones) that slowly tapers off into nothingness. For a single-developer game (like a rogue-like) this is general a five year process. Commercial games have an even faster turn over, with major support terminating a few months to a year after release. MMOs can fold in again about five years if they arn't re-injected with vigor.

But my favorite games are the exceptions. The roguelike that has been continuously honed, added to and evolved over fifteen years. The RPG whose player-based modding community has kept it alive after ten. The MMO which has reinvented its own payment model and pulled itself up by its own bootstraps.

When I first started DDO, I did not see in it the potential that I see now. I think things are headed in a better direction and I'm seeing some evidence of this in every update. Keep it up; or hell, make it better if you can, we appreciate it

[Missing_Minds]

+1 I could deal with no new content, for a one shot deal, that fixed things. Like fixing every known issue, fixing hirelings once & for all, taking a huge chunk out of the serious lag problems.

*looks at the join date* thought so. Let me tell you, that your statement is a load of garbage. DDO has already been through that before. Update 0 and the last Mod. Do you know how much time passed? 1.5-2 years.

Do you know how many people the game lost because of no new content? We were figuring the game was going to be shut down quite honestly.

So no, new content every 3-4 months for a MMO is near mandatory for it to stay alive any more.

What I'd wish is that they would do MONTHLY patches/bug fixes. I'll take content every 4-6 months. That sort of schedule would make me happy.

[Phemt81]

Edit...I laugh at you for thinking you are ok with nothing new for a year. You folks are already asking about the next thing! Easy to type, but you all would be raging by Dec. if you knew there was nothing in the pipeline until Nov 2012.
And it would not be bug free. It is a statistical impossibility. Mostly free? Pretty Clean? Sure...bug free...never.

What? You laughing at me? Let's see what moderators think about that when i press the report... oh wait...

Jokes apart, why don't you try us? Make a poll and just ask what we REALLY want.

The results could surprise you.

[Galeria]

Love the update, love hearing that bugs are going to be addressed. Looking forward to my handwraps working!

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Because you can't pay non-employees for bug hunting. See: http://www.gamespy.com/articles/492/492177p1.html

Did I fix something? I don't fix a thing. I just tell people they are busted.
Exploits- just PM me, Kookie...well, anybody.

Edit...I laugh at you for thinking you are ok with nothing new for a year. You folks are already asking about the next thing! Easy to type, but you all would be raging by Dec. if you knew there was nothing in the pipeline until Nov 2012.
And it would not be bug free. It is a statistical impossibility. Mostly free? Pretty Clean? Sure...bug free...never. There is a reason they are called bugs, squashing them is like trying to kill an cockroach infestation.

So.. let's talk about my personal pet peeve. (Well, one of them anyway)

The ladder bug.

No, I'm not talking about the ladders that were accidently broken in one update a while back so that they don't connect in the middle anymore.

I'm talking about the reason that every experienced ddo player I know has to jump to get on a ladder. Any ladder, anyplace... Or sometimes they just rubberband in place at the bottom of the ladder.

Is this a limitation in the game engine? Is it something that only people over a certain amount of latency experience? It's been in the game since the very first day I started playing ddo, and it's been there consistently and reliably ever since, through five different computers on my end.

And yet I've never seen it mentioned anywhere.

[Targonis]

maybe because we didn't see that bug, hard to put something on a list if you dont know about it.
This goes back to 'you have no idea how big this game is from the inside' that I've mentioned. QA is a spec ops team, not a branch of the Armed Forces. When things break outside of where the scope of the release is, yes it will be missed. If we did a full regression every release, we would do one release a year. Since that would suck for everyone involved-including you guys, I need to go with picking prime targets. Custom UI was not on the target list, and from our perspective there was no reason it should have been.

Those who have been around since beta or head-start know about how much has been added to the game since release, and we have seen a LOT of changes over the years, mostly for the better. With many of those changes we saw bugs, and then the fixing of those bugs. In some cases, the bugs themselves never got fixed, but then an underlying system was changed to eliminate the need for a specific bug fix.

So yes, there will be bugs, and some just can't be fixed without some major overhauls due to core design flaws. There are many who just can't grasp this idea, and how nice it must be when those major changes can put to rest some of the bugs that have been around since release.

For a fully customizable UI, a major change to the game code to make the UI be more modular would probably be called for. Things like being able to scale the size of UI elements for example have probably been asked for since release or before that(so the target orb can be made larger on a higher resolution display for example). That is a big task to implement that sort of thing depending on how the code is currently implemented.

[Targonis]

So.. let's talk about my personal pet peeve. (Well, one of them anyway)

The ladder bug.

No, I'm not talking about the ladders that were accidently broken in one update a while back so that they don't connect in the middle anymore.

I'm talking about the reason that every experienced ddo player I know has to jump to get on a ladder. Any ladder, anyplace... Or sometimes they just rubberband in place at the bottom of the ladder.

Is this a limitation in the game engine? Is it something that only people over a certain amount of latency experience? It's been in the game since the very first day I started playing ddo, and it's been there consistently and reliably ever since, through five different computers on my end.

And yet I've never seen it mentioned anywhere.

I've seen it on SOME ladders, but most of them let me just run up to them and start climbing. It could be a latency issue, or something else, but the reason jumping onto the ladder makes sense for many is that climbing tends to be slower than running, so if you can get onto the ladder at a higher or lower point, that saves you some time.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

I've seen it on SOME ladders, but most of them let me just run up to them and start climbing. It could be a latency issue, or something else, but the reason jumping onto the ladder makes sense for many is that climbing tends to be slower than running, so if you can get onto the ladder at a higher or lower point, that saves you some time.

Yes, all you need to do to successfully climb the ladder is back off and hit it again. But that's not really the point here.

[NexEverto]

if it is on lama, it will make it to live.

Epic Wand Bracelet being the exception that proves the rule?

[Missing_Minds]

So.. let's talk about my personal pet peeve. (Well, one of them anyway)

The ladder bug.

No, I'm not talking about the ladders that were accidently broken in one update a while back so that they don't connect in the middle anymore.

I'm talking about the reason that every experienced ddo player I know has to jump to get on a ladder. Any ladder, anyplace... Or sometimes they just rubberband in place at the bottom of the ladder.

That is not the ladder bug. In fact is actually has nothing to do with THE ladder bug, nor is it even ladder related. (Ladders just happen to be the best way to get the issue to occur.)

What you are experiencing is a client server position argument.
The server is saying "no, you can't be there, based on your velocity. You must be here."
The client is going "but I'm climbing up the dam thing!"

Server wins every time.

You can get the same effect jumping around, most repeatable when trying to do the jumps up to the TR orc, the solo in dreaming darkness, wherever you are jumping a lot esp near walls.
You've already proved it yourself, just stop moving and look where the server sticks you. At that point the communication for position is restored and you can climb normally.

Were it actually the ladder, you'd never be able to climb up it, you'd always hitch.

[Darkrok]

Because you can't pay non-employees for bug hunting. See: http://www.gamespy.com/articles/492/492177p1.html

Did I fix something? I don't fix a thing. I just tell people they are busted.
Exploits- just PM me, Kookie...well, anybody.

Edit...I laugh at you for thinking you are ok with nothing new for a year. You folks are already asking about the next thing! Easy to type, but you all would be raging by Dec. if you knew there was nothing in the pipeline until Nov 2012.
And it would not be bug free. It is a statistical impossibility. Mostly free? Pretty Clean? Sure...bug free...never. There is a reason they are called bugs, squashing them is like trying to kill an cockroach infestation.

I'm ready for U14...we'll figure the bugs out when they get here.

[BurnerD]

Thanks for the update!

I'm glad Turbine is pushing the game in new directions. I may or may not like some of it, but it will offer a wider variety of things to do in the future.

I do think there are certain "well aged" bugs that need to be eradicated... and it sounds like it's on the radar an an action item for 2012. I hope you all can have some success in this area. Perhaps you should enlist a few of the very active and helpful forum posters to prioritize a bug list from the players perspective...

Keep up the good work and thanks again for the weekly updates. While there will always be a few trolls in these threads the majority of the forumites appreciate your effort.

Happy Halloween!

[Cleanincubus]

*looks at the join date* thought so. Let me tell you, that your statement is a load of garbage. DDO has already been through that before. Update 0 and the last Mod. Do you know how much time passed? 1.5-2 years.

Do you know how many people the game lost because of no new content? We were figuring the game was going to be shut down quite honestly.

So no, new content every 3-4 months for a MMO is near mandatory for it to stay alive any more.

What I'd wish is that they would do MONTHLY patches/bug fixes. I'll take content every 4-6 months. That sort of schedule would make me happy.

You're absolutely right on everything you've said here. I mean, you have to be, just look at your join date. Because a forum join date must mean that date is the first day, or the first time, a person has ever played an MMO before, or a video game in general.

Apparently you don't spend enough time on the forums to see how many people the game loses after every single update, because of poor decisions and lack of fixing serious issues. Mass amounts of people leaving, because of lack of communication isn't surprising. I'm willing to bet more people would have stuck around, had Turbine actually communicated with the community about what was going on. So that previous situation would be fairly different from them letting us know why no new content isn't being released, and why it's all bug/lag fixes, while still being active on the forums.

Maybe I am in the minority, when it comes to bug fixing vs new content. That's fine, it's just my opinion. But I can honestly say I'd rather see bugs and lag being fixed, instead of content like these new "challenges" (that I got bored with after playing 2 rounds), or the UI changes from U11, or Artificers (instead of Druids).

[Osharan_Tregarth]

You've already proved it yourself, just stop moving and look where the server sticks you. At that point the communication for position is restored and you can climb normally.

Were it actually the ladder, you'd never be able to climb up it, you'd always hitch.

If I never stop trying to move forward, I never climb the ladder.

It may not be THE ladder bug, but it's definitely A ladder bug. Call it what you will, if it reliably happens on a ladder...