Shinto 3, Void 4 Tradeoffs

[daiceman]

So I've been fiddling around with a human monks enhancements, and have come to the conclusion that we are 1 ap short

It seems that from this list of 5 very nice abilities we need to sacrifice one:
Fists of Iron
Dual Grandmaster
Human Versatility 4

Since the bump from HV 3 to 4 is only 1 damage, I opted to use the 3 points (remember taking all would be 1 point over, so a 4 point refund would give me 3) to get Toughness II and Unbalancing Strike.

This leaves me with a build of:

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None 
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Monk) 
Hit Points: 307
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 15
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    25
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               14                    17
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    28
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         7                    41
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  2                     3
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  3                     7
Listen                2                     3
Move Silently         2                    16
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  2                     3
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                6                    27
Use Magic Device      1                    10.5

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Monk)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Improved Balance II


Level 5 (Monk)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Improved Sunder
Enhancement: Shintao Monk I
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Adept of Rock


Level 7 (Monk)
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Adept of Rain


Level 8 (Monk)
Enhancement: Fists of Iron
Enhancement: Unbalancing Strike
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Shintao Monk II
Enhancement: Master of Thunder


Level 13 (Monk)
Enhancement: Master of Stone


Level 14 (Monk)
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Master of the Sea


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 16 (Monk)
Enhancement: Void Strike II
Enhancement: Void Strike III


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Shintao Monk III
Enhancement: Grandmaster of Mountains


Level 19 (Monk)
Enhancement: Void Strike IV


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Monk Serenity
Enhancement: Grandmaster of the Sun

How is this looking, am I missing something super important? I'm currently a 28 point dark halfling monk who's recently come back the the game. Looking to do a TR into a human as the halfling guile and companion lines simply take too much AP with what monk needs just by itself.

The reason I choose Fire and Earth grandmaster is because the earth4 is miles ahead in damage, and I am currently planning on making my monk str based so i would easily fit the reqs for fire4 and its stance would be nice to be in while fighting undead.

Another thing I've always been bad at was skills, obviously concentration and balance are the two very good ones, and it feels like i just choose UMD just for lack of a better option, any suggestions?

[Calebro]

So I've been fiddling around with a human monks enhancements, and have come to the conclusion that we are 1 ap short

It seems that from this list of 5 very nice abilities we need to sacrifice one:
Fists of Iron
Dual Grandmaster
Human Versatility 4

Since the bump from HV 3 to 4 is only 1 damage, I opted to use the 3 points (remember taking all would be 1 point over, so a 4 point refund would give me 3) to get Toughness II and Unbalancing Strike.

I would sacrifice Dual Grandmaster.
I know everyone praises the mighty Dual Grandmaster, but the fact of the matter is that you spend 95% of your time in one stance, so for that other 5% of the time as far as I'm concerned tier three works just fine.

[BOgre]

Last I heard, Human Versatility DamageBoost was changed to a percentage increase, 10/15/20/25 % instead of the flat +1/2/3/4. So that last tier is pretty significant.

edit: Confirmed. Tool tip text is incorrect but damage numbers and combat log both indicate HV DamBoost to be 25% at tier4.

[Calebro]

Last I heard, Human Versatility DamageBoost was changed to a percentage increase, 10/15/20/25 % instead of the flat +1/2/3/4. So that last tier is pretty significant.

edit: Confirmed. Tool tip text is incorrect but damage numbers and combat log both indicate HV DamBoost to be 25% at tier4.

Which is exactly why I'd give up dual grandmastery for it. It's worth the trade.

[BOgre]

Which is exactly why I'd give up dual grandmastery for it. It's worth the trade.

yup yup. my point exactly, though I forgot to actually SAY it. :P

[SensaiRyu]

Realistically... I have a problem even using my versatility buttons. As a light monk I have so much more on my quickbars that the vers II damage bonus is on a sidebar that I keep forgetting to use.

As for your topic - shintao III, void IV tradeoffs; you have shinto III, void IV, vers III where I only get up to vers II. Probably because I took rogue dilly I. Squeezing in vers III with shin III/void IV is great.

Vers IV gives you only 5% more dmg over vers III - that's about +2 or +3 damage more over your approximate +10 dmg from vers III (assuming you're hitting an average of 50 base dmg). Take that into account if you're looking at trading out other enhancements. Is the +2-3 extra dmg worth it? Is it worth giving up a dual grandmastery?

[faraque]

Depends on the Dual Grandmaster you have. Personally, I want Fire GM for the stance (yummy STR and HAmp) and Earth GM for the strikes (Yummy DPS).

Being able to fight like this means fun to me...
Imp Sunder > QP > Void IV > Stun > Earth IV > Earth III > Fist of Iron > Finisher
Debuffed, Dead, Dead, or Dying x4

[elg582]

If you have to pick one of those, I wold say fists of iron should go; it only works on a crit, so 1/10 of the time it doesn't do anything.

Of course, by that logic, you should ditch the void line, too.

As for dual grandmaster stances, I agree that it is a waste; you really only need Wind4 and Earth3, and I don't even bother with Fire2 or Water2.

I have plenty of AP...

[Calebro]

I have plenty of AP...

You also have what is obviously a completely different build.

[-Zyxas-]

I do agree with elg582 that Fists of Iron is not worth it. 10% of the time, minus fortification, leaves it at about 4% chance to gain +1 crit multiplier. (Well depending on which boss/what difficulty.) Sure it's only 1 AP, but the benefit is next to nothing. I would much rather use earth 2 strike in the cycle instead.

But I also agree with Calebro that elg582's build is completely different.

[elg582]

You also have what is obviously a completely different build.

Sure, but just dropping earth4 and FoI will net you 5 AP without having anything to do with the build.

[Habreno]

Drop Fists of Iron. Keep HV IV and Dual GM's.

[SensaiRyu]

I feat swapped out my second toughness for improved sunder. I highly recommend this feat. This, unfortunately and even tho' I had 2 - count 'em TWO - toughness feats, the swap made me respec my enhancements. I took the opportunity to take the rest of the Versatility line.

I was able to squeeze in Vers IV, Shintao III, Void IV, Tough II, and a GM stance (took earth). I had to give up my other GM stance - air. But since I only run in earth/fire I really don't care.

I also had to drop FoI.

[Reos]

I've been away for a while, is Air Stance IV no longer the uber DPS?

[Habreno]

Wind is now a sacrafice of HP and DR for DPS. Earth retains its extra crit multiplier, but gains percentile based DR instead of straight DR (which used to not stack with the monk capstone, DR 10/Epic) and it gains threat boosts. Fire is still its STR boosting, ki generating machine it usually is, and Water gains a few benefits, which I forget what they are.

Those are listed in order of DPS advantages. For tanking, Earth, Fire, Water, Wind.

[Kinerd]

I've been away for a while, is Air Stance IV no longer the uber DPS?

Before update 12, Earth was best against 0 fort and Air was best against some fort, where some depended on your particular gear setup.

Earth is slated to get a rather massive threat increase in update 12, which is going to end up making it slightly worse for raw DPS, as you lose sneak attack. Because you are a font of healing amp, this may be an advantage for your group, but as far as personal DPS goes it is not optimal.

[SensaiRyu]

Earth will get a threat increase? Nice! I'm already wishing I had intim instead of diplo (even tho' it's only around 16) to drag some of the monsters back to me to stun them. They drop so fast when stunned. I think getting aggro would be a good thing for my monk's play style.

I gotta read the release notes...