Nerf normal Lord of the Blades

[lugoman]

I am not seeing LoB being pugged on Cannith. The Master Artificer is being pugged fairly regularly, but not LoB. The few I see are mostly heavily filtered guild runs looking to fill a few particular spots or ones that take to long to fill and give up. I have about 12 MA's and 0 LoB. It seems the initial reports on the raid being difficult has made many people skip it. Maybe make normal a bit easier and increase drop rates in harder difficulties. Add +3 tome chance to hard and +4 to elite and epics.

Perception is often greater than reality in DDO. You probably wouldnt have to change it much - just say you made it easier in the u12 release notes and I think people will start giving it a try.

[sirgog]

Normal is pretty forgiving if you have a competent leader and tank, people that listen, and you pool a few mana potions while learning it. Casters will use more pots than healers until you get it downpat.

IMO Normal LoB is a little easier than Normal TOD now that I'm familiar with both.

[Vellrad]

Mandatory post, about how quests' nerfs made this game way to easy already

[Kmnh]

LoB is fairly easy if you have a good-ish tank and a smart healer taking care of him.

I pug it fairly often, and I've only failed twice - when people killed the lob and spawned lots of trash.

[furbyoats]

It's a high level raid that requires teamwork from all players. Melees can't just boost and hold down the attack button here. My suggestion is to try to get a group of people dedicated to learning the raid. It is painful at first but once you start building teamwork it is very manageable. Everyone has to be on the ball in here or you don't complete. You can get some of the most powerful weapons in the game from this raid...why would you expect it to be easy.

Now epic LoB on the other hand........

/not signed

[TDarkchylde]

/signed

The cost of even learning LoB at the moment is way too high. I'd rather run Titan - including running to the raid as opposed to taking a GT. It's much less annoying.

This from someone who used to routinely solo-heal Elite and Epic raids without potting before LoB came out and all the high-difficulty raids got turned up to 11.

[Jendrak]

Why is it that every time a difficult quest/raid comes out people always start whining for the devs to make it easier?????

Here's a great idea....trust me your gonna love it. Instead of turning the difficulty down how about y'all....wait for it.......turn your skill up. {insert but-this-one-goes-to-11 joke}

[sirgog]

Resource usage is no higher in LOB now than it was in Shroud 1 month after release.

[TDarkchylde]

Here's a great idea....trust me your gonna love it. Instead of turning the difficulty down how about y'all....wait for it.......turn your skill up. {insert but-this-one-goes-to-11 joke}

Skill's not the problem here, as I stated in the last post. Neither is gear on a FvS with 2800 SP, a Torc, a Conc-Opp accessory, a Staff of the Petitioner, Litany, Bauble, Twisted Talisman (non-epic), two Vile Blasphemies, 18 minutes of Superior Ardor 8 between shrines and at least 200 Heal, MCMW and Reconstruct scrolls on hand at all times. I'd say that character is an Epic Talisman, an eSSR and three more Vile Blasphemies from being what I'd consider fully geared.

Even with all that, it takes about five pots to get through Normal. Could be a bad run of bad tanks. Could be that in the attempt to make the game "fun" for the highly skilled and "fully" geared, those caught between no gear or skill and the aforementioned high-end are kind of SOL.

Kindly step into my high heels and see if you don't have to buy every Major pot in the AH before stepping in there.

[Kmnh]

Skill's not the problem here, as I stated in the last post. Neither is gear on a FvS with 2800 SP, a Torc, a Conc-Opp accessory, a Staff of the Petitioner, Litany, Bauble, Twisted Talisman (non-epic), two Vile Blasphemies, 18 minutes of Superior Ardor 8 between shrines and at least 200 Heal, MCMW and Reconstruct scrolls on hand at all times. I'd say that character is an Epic Talisman, an eSSR and three more Vile Blasphemies from being what I'd consider fully geared.

Even with all that, it takes about five pots to get through Normal. Could be a bad run of bad tanks. Could be that in the attempt to make the game "fun" for the highly skilled and "fully" geared, those caught between no gear or skill and the aforementioned high-end are kind of SOL.

Kindly step into my high heels and see if you don't have to buy every Major pot in the AH before stepping in there.

Bring a real tank and... the 200 heal scrolls :P

The test to see if a tank is real or not is simple: "can you keep him alive with scrolls only, unless the boss is doing a special attack?"

Real tanks are cheap and easy to build, and there is a lot of trash in the raid for other people to deal with. I tank him regularly with my 1st life favored soul with no torc.

[sirgog]

Skill's not the problem here, as I stated in the last post. Neither is gear on a FvS with 2800 SP, a Torc, a Conc-Opp accessory, a Staff of the Petitioner, Litany, Bauble, Twisted Talisman (non-epic), two Vile Blasphemies, 18 minutes of Superior Ardor 8 between shrines and at least 200 Heal, MCMW and Reconstruct scrolls on hand at all times. I'd say that character is an Epic Talisman, an eSSR and three more Vile Blasphemies from being what I'd consider fully geared.

Even with all that, it takes about five pots to get through Normal. Could be a bad run of bad tanks. Could be that in the attempt to make the game "fun" for the highly skilled and "fully" geared, those caught between no gear or skill and the aforementioned high-end are kind of SOL.

Kindly step into my high heels and see if you don't have to buy every Major pot in the AH before stepping in there.

Probably your issue is raid composition.

4+ Scroll Mastery 4 toons. Always. At least for Hard+, norm you can get by with 2 because it is short enough that SP won't run as low. Do all non-emergency healing from scrolls at all times.

My prefered raid comp for non-epic is 1 Warchanter, 1 Spellsinger, 2-3 divines, 1-2 casters, 2 tanks, rest melee DPS.

Normally we finish with divines having 1500+ SP when the final Quori/Pillars phase starts.

[Chai]

Resource usage is no higher in LOB now than it was in Shroud 1 month after release.

Yeap, but the expectation that people should be able to just crush normal without a learning curve is alot more nowdays than it was back then. Since this raid isnt just a surround and pound DPS cage match, they are finding out that it doesnt work that way.

[Jendrak]

Skill's not the problem here, as I stated in the last post. Neither is gear on a FvS with 2800 SP, a Torc, a Conc-Opp accessory, a Staff of the Petitioner, Litany, Bauble, Twisted Talisman (non-epic), two Vile Blasphemies, 18 minutes of Superior Ardor 8 between shrines and at least 200 Heal, MCMW and Reconstruct scrolls on hand at all times. I'd say that character is an Epic Talisman, an eSSR and three more Vile Blasphemies from being what I'd consider fully geared.

Even with all that, it takes about five pots to get through Normal. Could be a bad run of bad tanks. Could be that in the attempt to make the game "fun" for the highly skilled and "fully" geared, those caught between no gear or skill and the aforementioned high-end are kind of SOL.

Kindly step into my high heels and see if you don't have to buy every Major pot in the AH before stepping in there.

I had a lengthy response typed out till my phone ate it but what was said above, including chai, will do nicely (+1's for saving me some re-typing )

[lugoman]

Probably your issue is raid composition.

4+ Scroll Mastery 4 toons. Always. At least for Hard+, norm you can get by with 2 because it is short enough that SP won't run as low. Do all non-emergency healing from scrolls at all times.

My prefered raid comp for non-epic is 1 Warchanter, 1 Spellsinger, 2-3 divines, 1-2 casters, 2 tanks, rest melee DPS.

Normally we finish with divines having 1500+ SP when the final Quori/Pillars phase starts.

Well I was talking pug so waiting for 2 bards and 2 tanks probably wont happen.

[lugoman]

Yeap, but the expectation that people should be able to just crush normal without a learning curve is alot more nowdays than it was back then. Since this raid isnt just a surround and pound DPS cage match, they are finding out that it doesnt work that way.

I agree. Guild runs have no problem with learning curves. Pugs just dont have the patience. Many people arent in guilds big enough to run some raids. With enough time many of the people learning it in guild runs will eventually start leading pugs on alts or when no guildies online, but this will take to long imo. There is a lot of competition in the mmo business and people dont want to wait to run content.

[lugoman]

It's a high level raid that requires teamwork from all players. Melees can't just boost and hold down the attack button here. My suggestion is to try to get a group of people dedicated to learning the raid. It is painful at first but once you start building teamwork it is very manageable. Everyone has to be on the ball in here or you don't complete. You can get some of the most powerful weapons in the game from this raid...why would you expect it to be easy.

Now epic LoB on the other hand........

/not signed

Again, this is about pugging. I am sure if I posted an lfg "LoB - dedicated to learning people only" it would take forever to fill. There are 4 different skill levels in the game, what's the big deal about letting everyone run it? If nerfing normal LoB makes it to easy for you then you can run on hard. Adjust the drop rates so it takes the normal runners longer to get the loot. This will give them more experience and they become better players.

[Chai]

Skill's not the problem here, as I stated in the last post. Neither is gear on a FvS with 2800 SP, a Torc, a Conc-Opp accessory, a Staff of the Petitioner, Litany, Bauble, Twisted Talisman (non-epic), two Vile Blasphemies, 18 minutes of Superior Ardor 8 between shrines and at least 200 Heal, MCMW and Reconstruct scrolls on hand at all times. I'd say that character is an Epic Talisman, an eSSR and three more Vile Blasphemies from being what I'd consider fully geared.

Even with all that, it takes about five pots to get through Normal. Could be a bad run of bad tanks. Could be that in the attempt to make the game "fun" for the highly skilled and "fully" geared, those caught between no gear or skill and the aforementioned high-end are kind of SOL.

Kindly step into my high heels and see if you don't have to buy every Major pot in the AH before stepping in there.

PUGed it now a few times where no mana potions were used. On Sarlona, where I dont believe we've seen an epic completion yet.

Those caught between no gear and fully geared are on their way, and should be doing their Shroud and TOD completions and running easy epics. 5 mana pots is rough, especially if each healer had to use that many.

[JOTMON]

Tough to pug.

Get a regular grp of at least 6 people together and practice,practice,practice.
Full group of regulars is better but work with what you have, pug the rest.

Read up on the quest before you go in so you know what to expect.

Look at it like Abott, I remember running this in practice mode hundreds of times for the puzzles, inferno....
We ran it as a practice run.. go in with the expectation to bail as soon as you run out of mana, fail puzzles,etc..
.. rinse, repeat. We were doing it to learn the puzzles and tells, not to complete, working out the core strategy.

Can also learn this by running with a grp that knows the quest, but it all has to start somewhere.

The core you will want for this consist of..

1. a tank of some sort to take primary aggro of LOB who has a throwing weapon.
Possibly a second tank when the primary tank HP drops low from the LOB debuffs, or shield up (takes longer)
*Learn the tells for Stun/Beserk/Rain of Blades.

2. Caster to kite dogs , or have party kill them asap..
*dont stand in the dog spit it does damage over time.

3. Ranged/caster for pillars.. preferably a decent ranged AA or artificer to save caster mana.
* you want these down quickly

4. 2 healers 1 focussed on main tank, second for party.
* optimize scrolls, and watch for stuns, throw a big heal after a stun attack if not blocked.


Keys to the quest..
Learn the tells for the attacks.
If main tank is stunned everyone does a controlled bail, otherwise massive damage to everyone around the LOB.
Dont stand in dog spit.
Have a spotter take the center buff before the LOB does.
Drop the pillars asap.

It is a tough quest, don't go in there without being decently prepared and equipped, you want to be a contributor to the group not a liability.

[JOTMON]

Again, this is about pugging. I am sure if I posted an lfg "LoB - dedicated to learning people only" it would take forever to fill. There are 4 different skill levels in the game, what's the big deal about letting everyone run it? If nerfing normal LoB makes it to easy for you then you can run on hard. Adjust the drop rates so it takes the normal runners longer to get the loot. This will give them more experience and they become better players.

You may be surprised how many people are out there that want to learn the quest but cant get into closed groups. We have a regular static group and may only channel or pug out the last couple spots. Those people that have more than 4 people may have a tough time getting into groups and end up pugging out 8 spots.

A static group is more likely to succeed because they have learned how to work together.

[R0cksteady]

I am very against this.

Lord of Blades is the only challenging raid, besides Elite ToD (Only challenging when Pugged) and Elite-Epic Master Artificer.

Lord of Blades is really the only challenge in this game. Why change it? Normal is actually really easy, but the only difficulty that gets pugged nightly. Still, not EVERYTHING has to be so easy a 6 year old can do it. Leave some of the challenge in the game.