Which feat should I take?

[Tirisha]

I'm not sure it matters; IC is going to have an even larger effect if the crit range goes up, and I can't believe that the monk PL feat is even under consideration.

Well let me see the monk PL averages 42 damage in 20 attacks versus improved crit which allows 1 extra crit in 20 attacks which doesn't do 42 damage with CE on and probably won't generate 42 damage with PA on. That's assuming a 0 fort mob (considering all the fort going around IC is the obvious loser). With earth stance IC actually seems like it may be worth considering but as people seem to agree the rogue PL is probably weaker than the Monk PL.

it's not like you're going to be pulling aggro so you really shouldn't need boss-level AC.

you obviously underestimate Wis build monks. most of the time I don't need to put my threat gear on.

[elg582]

Well let me see the monk PL averages 42 damage in 20 attacks versus improved crit which allows 1 extra crit in 20 attacks which doesn't do 42 damage with CE on and probably won't generate 42 damage with PA on.

Even with 10 STR and non-magic handwraps, a crit should be averaging 33 damage (2d10 x 3).

That's assuming a 0 fort mob (considering all the fort going around IC is the obvious loser).

Hardly; even against 100 fort, bursts still go off.

ROFL, you obviously underestimate Wis build monks. Let me just say that 90% of the time I don't need to put my threat gear on (and that's with CE on).

I have capped 2 DEX/WIS monks so I know exactly what they can do; being a dark monk makes up for quite a bit, and yes, I imagine that only equivalently geared barbs, kenseis, and STR ninjas are out-DPS'ing you. That's why I make STR ninjas

They really need to get ninja 3 out soon.

[Tirisha]

Even with 10 STR and non-magic handwraps, a crit should be averaging 33 damage (2d10 x 3).

Yeah it's worth it with the X3 crit profile, I'm not trying to argue it's not. I'm asking which feat I should drop for it? Monk PL or Rogue PL?

Hardly; even against 100 fort, bursts still go off.

bursts won't do as much damage as the Monk PL and you know that. Though considering a triple dark finisher that I can now stick on anything (not immune to curses) thx to imp sunder, less things will have 100% for against me.

I have capped 2 DEX/WIS monks so I know exactly what they can do; being a dark monk makes up for quite a bit, and yes, I imagine that only equivalently geared barbs, kenseis, and STR ninjas are out-DPS'ing you.

lol you must have been joking when you suggested this build couldn't hold aggro. Especially with the new what is it? 75% threat for earth 4? Only people who Want to pull aggro could do it.

That's why I make STR ninjas

You realize DPS is the most useless skill in the game right

They really need to get ninja 3 out soon.

Agreed.

[elg582]

Yeah it's worth it with the X3 crit profile, I'm not trying to argue it's not. I'm asking which feat I should drop for it? Monk PL or Rogue PL?

Again, I reiterate, keep both of those and drop CE.

bursts won't do as much damage as the Monk PL and you know that. Though considering a triple dark finisher that I can now stick on anything (not immune to curses) thx to imp sunder, less things will have 100% for against me.

No, but it shows that IC is useful even against 100 fort.

lol you must have been joking when you suggested this build couldn't hold aggro. Especially with the new what is it? 75% threat for earth 4? Only people who Want to pull aggro could do it.

So you're fine unless you get into a crappy PUG

You realize DPS is the most useless skill in the game right

I couldn't disagree more.

[Tirisha]

Again, I reiterate, keep both of those and drop CE.

I would have considered that before LOB, but now every point of AC is useful to me, far more so than a marginal increase in dps.

No, but it shows that IC is useful even against 100 fort.

useful is a strong word I'd word it more like... it does something against heavy fort guys lol.

So you're fine unless you get into a crappy PUG

I don't run into that many griefers in sarlona and the chances of a Pug out DPSing my monk is actually very slim. Even still no matter how much Threat a Tank could generate it won't save them from somebody who wants agro. All you can do is build enough threat to hold aggro against dps who don't care about their threat and my monk clearly generates plenty of threat for them.

I couldn't disagree more.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree with that

[elg582]

I don't run into that many griefers in sarlona and the chances of a Pug out DPSing my monk is actually very slim. Even still no matter how much Threat a Tank could generate it won't save them from somebody who wants agro. All you can do is build enough threat to hold aggro against dps who don't care about their threat and my monk clearly generates plenty of threat for them.

It's not so much griefers as it is barbs and kenseis going full dps, even if that means stacking aggro gear along with it, but if you've got both 90th percentile dps and >150% threat, they can go full throttle and kill the boss faster. The clerics and souls will be chain-healing either way, so they'd just as soon get it over with faster in most cases.

[rodallec]

**** it tiri just drop Rog PL
Sure 3 mins of extra Dmg is cool with haste boost and the skills
But if you miss the Rog PL too much I will give you a flawless so you can swap again.

[Tirisha]

It's not so much griefers as it is barbs and kenseis going full dps, even if that means stacking aggro gear along with it, but if you've got both 90th percentile dps and >150% threat, they can go full throttle and kill the boss faster. The clerics and souls will be chain-healing either way, so they'd just as soon get it over with faster in most cases.

fighters and barbs with claw sets can go all the throttle they want.

what do you mean chain healing? I'm an AC build after all..... the dps shouldn't be taking much damage on the bosses back for sure.

[Tirisha]

**** it tiri just drop Rog PL
Sure 3 mins of extra Dmg is cool with haste boost and the skills
But if you miss the Rog PL too much I will give you a flawless so you can swap again.

I will as soon as U12 comes out and I swap some points around for earth stance 4

[Masadique]

I'm not worried about fighters or barbs with their claw sets, they can go all the throttle they want.

what do you mean chain healing? I'm an AC build after all..... the dps shouldn't be taking much damage on the bosses back for sure.

Epeen for the win! The real advice everyone is giving you isn't on which feat to swap, it's simply that you should keep in mind there are people out there who do in deed generate more threat than you via DPS. Your wis build is sweet for AC, but it gave up at least a little bit of DPS. There is no way that you can convince the forums you upped AC without sacrificing something else.

That said, the people who have posted thus far are trying to help while you are trying to show how awesome you are. Please stop bringing us monks down with you.

[Tirisha]

Epeen for the win! The real advice everyone is giving you isn't on which feat to swap, it's simply that you should keep in mind there are people out there who do in deed generate more threat than you via DPS. Your wis build is sweet for AC, but it gave up at least a little bit of DPS. There is no way that you can convince the forums you upped AC without sacrificing something else.

I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to say. Obviously I sacrifice DPS, but I am trying to make it very clear to all those reading that the ridiculous misconception that A not max str/dps toon can't hold aggro is only true in somebody else's epeen fairy tale.

That said, the people who have posted thus far are trying to help while you are trying to show how awesome you are.

I don't understand how you got that impression, I've had to explain my build choices because people asked, I've had to be explicit about having adequate threat because people think wis build dark monk elfs don't have it, I've takin into consideration the people who have actually answered my question and the other suggestions I have already considered and ruled out (before starting this thread)

Please stop bringing us monks down with you.

how am I going down? and how am I bringing you down?

[Kinerd]

thx for the calculations, just curious but is that with earth stance factored in or no?

Yes. It's worth mentioning that I also assumed 100% non-aggro, which is probably not going to be the case with the bajillion% threat increase. Getting aggro both decreases the direct contribution from PL rogue and increases the relative contribution of the other two, as you would lose Ninja Spy SA and any item SA as well. You're making the right call dropping PL rogue.

[Tirisha]

Yes. It's worth mentioning that I also assumed 100% non-aggro, which is probably not going to be the case with the bajillion% threat increase. Getting aggro both decreases the direct contribution from PL rogue and increases the relative contribution of the other two, as you would lose Ninja Spy SA and any item SA as well. You're making the right call dropping PL rogue.

thank you for your input

[Taimasan]

As a monk I find my toon gets better as he relies less on power from "clicks" but to strive for goals that may take longer, yet improve the core of the toon. I would drop the Rogue Past Life and put what you need in there, try for awhile to see how you can increase your damage in other ways to compensate for the power.. albeit exhaustible, you lost.
You might not be equal, but you may be able to do comparable or even surpass in some situations. You already know what you want to do, and you can always switch back. If you feel like you need a overhaul. Save up for a lesser reinc. Good luck!

[Kinerd]

thank you for your input

Welcome!