Why take kensei over stalwart defender?

[sumnz]

Cant think of too many reasons except a few points more damage, but your giving up 20 precent more hitpoints, and not having to mess with a 1 minute clicky for 8 strength instead of +6 to str AND con full time. Im debating 20 fighter or possibly 2 rogue 18 fighter, either way at least 18 fighter. Going to duel wield warhammers and focus on the combat feats.

I supose kensei also adds to combat feats.

[Tirisha]

a better question is: why build a dps toon when you can build a tank?

[SetofBs]

a better question is: why build a dps toon when you can build a tank?

I think the main reason to go Kensai nowadays is tactics. Although Kensai also has a pretty decent advantage of not generating extra hate when you might not want to.

[sephiroth1084]

Kensia is still adding a fair bit more DPS with the additional damage on your weapon for tiers I and II and the increased crit range on tier III.

Kensai offers more to-hit.

Kensai offers quite a bit more damage with extra uses of Haste Boost (and Human Damage Boost if you go that route).

Kensai offers better tactics DCs.

If you are comfortable with your HP where it is, but want DPS, Kensai is still the winner for most content I should think.

Stalwart is a little more versatile as its bonuses apply irrespective of weapon or duration of quest, and makes you more resilient.

[LeLoric]

Kensia is still adding a fair bit more DPS with the additional damage on your weapon for tiers I and II and the increased crit range on tier III.

Kensai offers more to-hit.

Kensai offers quite a bit more damage with extra uses of Haste Boost (and Human Damage Boost if you go that route).

Kensai offers better tactics DCs.

If you are comfortable with your HP where it is, but want DPS, Kensai is still the winner for most content I should think.

Stalwart is a little more versatile as its bonuses apply irrespective of weapon or duration of quest, and makes you more resilient.

Keep in mind kensai also get access to rage and madstone that a stalwart can't use while in stance. So the str score is often much higher and the con is usually the same as a stalwart.

Having a lev 20 kensai and stalwart I can say the dps is much more than a few points more dmg.

[FranOhmsford]

Is Kensai 1 worth adding to Acrobat or Rogue Mech 2?

Is it worth going Kensai 2 on a Deepwood Sniper as is?

Stalwart is a PURE Fighter {DoS for Pallys} PrE.

I see Kensai as more of an option for Boosting other Classes lesser PrEs.

[Khellendros13]

Is Kensai 1 worth adding to Acrobat or Rogue Mech 2?

Is it worth going Kensai 2 on a Deepwood Sniper as is?

Stalwart is a PURE Fighter {DoS for Pallys} PrE.

I see Kensai as more of an option for Boosting other Classes lesser PrEs.

I see it the opposite. Kensai 1 is very expensive for a "splash" and offers much less at Tier1 than SD.

[Mercureal]

I see it the opposite. Kensai 1 is very expensive for a "splash" and offers much less at Tier1 than SD.

I agree: SD 1 gives you: an HP boost, AC boost (if you're going for AC), Str/Con in stance, more AC in stance and a bonus to saves.

Kensai 1 gives you: an extra + 1 to hit and damage (only with your chosen weapon), a bit more damage on a critical, +1 on tactical feats (if you use tactical feats), +1 reflex save against magic, and an extra action boost.

However, I'd say the required feats to qualify for Stalwart 1 are a little less useful overall unless your building a pure tank anyway.

[PestWulf]

In my opinion, until these recent changes, being Kensai and spending a couple feats on defense and throwing a shield on made you a lot closer to a SD than an SD could ever get to being a kensai.

With these changes, it has evened up more. The Kensai is still the better combatant in terms of tactic DC's, to-hit and damage. It's just the SD has gained on that a little now and has it's own perk of extra hitpoints and some more AC.

A closer comparison that interests me is what the new earth monk changes mean in comparison to DOS and SD prestige's. On the one hand i'm happy that I have a third defensive alternative, on the other hand, it bothers me a bit at how they keep pajama class in the same upper tier of defense as plate/shield wearers. But that's a different thread.

Back to the topic. It now really depends on your goal as opposed to before. If you want top notch DPS yet still have the ability to have a reasonable tank mode with a gear swap..Kensai is the way to go. If you want to be main tank, it's DS all the way. However, in my mind it just means that they both have a clear specialty now.

A Kensai can still throw on a shield with shield mastery and be pretty butch on defense and a DS can take the twf or thf line and be pretty reasonable on offense.

[Munkenmo]

a better question is: why build a dps toon when you can build a tank?

cause if we all built tanks we'd be self healing casters rendering kensai and stalwart obsolete?

[wax_on_wax_off]

a better question is: why build a dps toon when you can build a tank?

Because a kensei isn't just a DPS toon (or doesn't have to be) but can also be a tactics build (you get bonus DC, might as well use it).

Auto-attack and afk is getting further and further from being a viable game play strategy which is a good thing. Fort reduction abilities, better tactics, harder quests all combines for a more active style of play which I like

[PestWulf]

actually, I really wouldn't mind seeing Kensai get a bigger boost to tactics use. Kensai is a specialist and a skilled/tactical fighter. I would like to see that emphasized a bit more, like in a couple seconds of cooldown reduction on tactic abilities with the 18 prestige.

[arminius]

My problem with Kensai and tactics is that by the time you get the ridiculous number of feats required for Kensai, there are no room for the tactics! I have a Halfling fighter who uses the dragonmarks, and with the 3 dragonmark feats, power attack, improved crit slashing, khopesh, toughness, the 3 TWF feats, OTWF, and the great gob of prerequisites for Kensai, that's it, no feat slot available for any tactical feat (I want Improved Sunder, which seems to be almost a requirement for fighters now).

Yeah I know I could drop the dragonmarks, but they do a LOT of healing with a potency VI item, and it has saved me and/or my party many times. Still I may have to go Stalwart just to have room for Improved Sunder, which is annoying to feel backed into a corner into doing.

Is there a DPS Stalwart build out there that I could look and see how the feats open up in comparison to Kensai? Are some of the Kensai requirement feats still good to use on a DPS Stalwart build, since after all they do increase to-hit and damage?

[Mercureal]

My problem with Kensai and tactics is that by the time you get the ridiculous number of feats required for Kensai, there are no room for the tactics! I have a Halfling fighter who uses the dragonmarks, and with the 3 dragonmark feats, power attack, improved crit slashing, khopesh, toughness, the 3 TWF feats, OTWF, and the great gob of prerequisites for Kensai, that's it, no feat slot available for any tactical feat (I want Improved Sunder, which seems to be almost a requirement for fighters now).

Yeah I know I could drop the dragonmarks, but they do a LOT of healing with a potency VI item, and it has saved me and/or my party many times. Still I may have to go Stalwart just to have room for Improved Sunder, which is annoying to feel backed into a corner into doing.

Is there a DPS Stalwart build out there that I could look and see how the feats open up in comparison to Kensai? Are some of the Kensai requirement feats still good to use on a DPS Stalwart build, since after all they do increase to-hit and damage?

You don't need OTWF on a kensai, as you really shouldn't have problems hitting - just drop it and put a tactical feat in its place. But yes, the weapon feats needed for kensai are still worth having on another fighter - they're not required, but bonuses to hit and damage are useful to any melee if you can fit them in.

Standard fighter feat choices aren't going to differ that much, outside of the what's needed for the PREs, so you don't really need to see a 'Stalwart' build. You'll save 3 or 4 feats by going SD 3 instead of Kensai 3.

[R0cksteady]

Why build either? FvS can do more damage, heal, buff and it's CC and insta kill options beat a few combat feats.

If you're going for what's best no one would roll melees, ever. The game is unbalanced as hell.

People roll fighters because they like fighters, so what's the point of not going the route that you would prefer to play over the route that's considered more beneficial?

[SensaiRyu]

... because I already have an SD build and I want something different.

[Chai]

Tactics - stunning trash and lowering fort on bosses.
More boosts.
Higher damage.

I do like that they raised HP, str and con, of stalwart, and lessened the movement penalty, as it makes it more of a debate as to which one is better, which will now depend more on the situation.

[maddmatt70]

I think the OP should clarify the question that was posed. The truth of the matter is a kensai is better in the vast majority of content in game because the kensai has more then sufficient hit points and defensive capabilities and does more dps. Power Surge is extremely powerful where there are frequent shrines and lets not forgot about the little other benefits the kensai gets with dps and tactics. It really is only in some raid situations or in content where shrines are very infrequent that the stalwart starts to prevail; specifically, less then 10 raids/quests in DDO of course some of those are key quests in the current end game such as the Lord of Blades.

[Madchicken]

Just get completionist and become a super caster problem solved,case closed, now you just have 12 lives to look forward to for that 13th =D

[sephiroth1084]

Why build either? FvS can do more damage, heal, buff and it's CC and insta kill options beat a few combat feats.

If you're going for what's best no one would roll melees, ever. The game is unbalanced as hell.

People roll fighters because they like fighters, so what's the point of not going the route that you would prefer to play over the route that's considered more beneficial?

Just get completionist and become a super caster problem solved,case closed, now you just have 12 lives to look forward to for that 13th =D

Got to love entirely pointless and unhelpful comments like these.