New Elite VoD Loot

[DeafeningWhisper]

Hummm, where is the VoD loot thread? I read the last 6 pages and all I see is monk this and monk that...

Is VoD any harder then before? Is the new loot in anyway rarer then the old one?

[Aaxeyu]

I agree with your main point, but I disagree with the assertion that monks are overpowered compared to teh other melee classes. Monks are certainly flexible and there's absoultely no one better at smacking down a portal (aside from a FvS or Cleric soloing the portal with Divine Punishment), but they can't do all (or even most) of the things that people are claiming for them at the same time. If they could beat Barbarian/Fighter DPS *and* have end game relevant AC *and* have the strongest and most stuns *and* have the second best saves in the game *and* act as better tanks than anyone else in the game, etc.... Well, then they obviously would be stronger than they should be. But they can't. They can do a few of those things with some fun, but relatively minor benefits (like faster run speed, Monk ki wings, etc). But they have to pick and choose. They can be DPS (and very good DPS if they have wraps that aren't broken). They can be exceptionally good tanks if they build their character carefully and pick up enough +hate gear. They can be quite good at some of the tactics (but not better than a tactics focused Fighter or Barbarian).

But they can't do that all at once. Even a third life Monk that buys a supreme tome of +3 stats is going to struggle to get enough stat points to spread around. Monks have no dump stat at all unless you want to start dropping some of the abilities that some people are claiming for them. And you only get 5 points of stat level ups. So is that Str for DPS and Stunning Blow? Is that Wisdom for AC and Monk ability DC's? Is that Dex for Reflex save and AC? Is it Int or Cha because you want people to make fun of you?

Monks are exceptionally difficult to make well and exceptionally easy to bork during character creation and leveling up. They are much more complicated to play than a Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, Rogue or melee Ranger. And even if they are played superbly with an outstanding build, there are still many characters that will outperform them in whatever role they choose for themselves. Monks can be really outstanding, but most aren't. Just like most classes, but it's more obvious with Monks because the difference between a mediocre Monk and an outstanding Monk is much greater than the difference between a mediocre Barbarian and an outstanding Barbarian.

You are underestimating what monks can do.
Did you see the new stances?

Oh, and following a build from the forums isn't hard.

[biggin]

I'm confused. I thought I went to a thread on Elite VoD loot. Lets keep it on topic. Start a new thread if you want to compare different melee classes in terms of u12 changes.

No ****. How many pages talking about Monks are we on?

[gloopygloop]

You are underestimating what monks can do.
Did you see the new stances?

Oh, and following a build from the forums isn't hard.

Following a build from the forums isn't hard.

Figuring out which builds are worth following is hard. Especially for Monks.

[sirgog]

Hummm, where is the VoD loot thread? I read the last 6 pages and all I see is monk this and monk that...

Is VoD any harder then before? Is the new loot in anyway rarer then the old one?

VoD was made harder in U11 not U12. The new loot seems more common than the old loot.

[Xaxx]

You are underestimating what monks can do.
Did you see the new stances?

Oh, and following a build from the forums isn't hard.

You underestimate how many creation points and aps monks have....


you know if monks had 48 creation points and 140 aps... then yeah they could probably come close to pulling off what a few of you say they can... MAAAAAAAAAAAAAYBE.

As it is... can they do whats all on the list.... no... can they be 2nd best in all of those.... nope... can they be second best on a few of those depending on build and equipment.... yeah pick two off the list and roll with it.

I'd love to see all this monk love that has been troted out here actually show up... if by monk love you mean constantly trying to fix **** they've constantly borked by trying to fix it another way.... or do you mean they actually got one c omplete pre.. and that their 2nd is 2/3rds of the way done... hmm
figher 2 COMPLETE pres
barb complete pre thats one of the best in game
ranger 2 complete pres and a 3rd started
pally 3 complete pres
rogue 1 complete 2 partial

Shall I keep going?

so two of the monk stances got upgraded and their capstones actually brought in line with the other top teir cap stones... and thats enough monk love to make them number 1 on any list and make them be able to do EVERYTHING.....yep dude keep drinkin the kool-aid.. dont forget the tin foil hat to.

Look at the recent fort and monk changes.. do you know what they're making monks into... the debuffers of the game.... oh wait you'll just add that to the list, best debuffers in the game to. Heres a fantastic idea.... go play a monk.. go tr a monk to legend.... then you come up with a build and an equipment set that lets you do EVERYTHING you guys have listed above... then come post that build and equipment list.... maybe that will keep you from complaining that everything is op except your favorite class for a while.

oh and for the loot part of the thread.... hound bracers... mmmmmm..... mele flavored casters will enjoy those very much.

[waterboytkd]

As for monks beating barb dps...

Well, I had this lengthy post that did all the math, and my browser ate it. Don't feel like re-writing that all over again.

But basically, a fully gear 40 str horc monk in Wind stance (which turned out to be higher dps than Earth because of all the extra elemental damages involved; also note, that the 40 str on any monk not in fire stance is unrealistically high) was 150 dps behind a horc barbarian with a 40 str unraged (so 60 raged and frenzied) with an eSoS. Both were given top weapons for their class, as well as top ToD sets.

End-game barbs are > end game monks in terms of dps. By a pretty big margin.

As for what people are saying monks can do, as Xaxx said, they can only do SOME of those things on any one build. Certainly not all. Especially since the list of monks' abilities tends to include both exclusive light and exclusive dark stuff. Yes, monks are very versatile. Yes, there are many ways one can build a monk. That does not make them OP.

[Taimasan]

As for monks beating barb dps...
/snip
barbarian ... with an eSoS. Both were given top weapons for their class, as well as top ToD sets.

End-game barbs are > end game monks in terms of dps. By a pretty big margin.

/snip

Just wanted to clarify the weapon variables in your calculations that you lost. Was the -- Monk Top Weapon: 2x-3x Air Alchemical Handwraps VS. Barbarian Top Weapon: Epic Sword of Shadows.? Or otherwise? I might of missed it though. Thanks.

[waterboytkd]

Just wanted to clarify the weapon variables in your calculations that you lost. Was the -- Monk Top Weapon: 2x-3x Air Alchemical Handwraps VS. Barbarian Top Weapon: Epic Sword of Shadows.? Or otherwise? I might of missed it though. Thanks.

Yeah, sorry. Like I said, I had this big write up and lost it. My last post was probably a bit spartan on details.

My monk was using Tier 3 (Air/Air/Air) Byeshk Handwraps with +7 slotted in the red slot, had Holy Burst ToD, another Elemental Burst ToD, Oremi's Set (which is higher dps than Shintao's, even if in Earth stance), and a FB set. I did not include things like eClaw, or eCharged Gauntlets, eBrawler's Gloves, or any kind of Sneak Attack. Granted, eCharged Gauntlets/eBrawler's Gloves and Sneak Attack would both favor monk (damage on hit, monk gets more attacks, the damage isn't augmented by crits).

Also, my monk was in Wind Stance, because the 10% doublestrike was more dps than the x3 crit multiplier.

My barbarian was using an eSoS, the Ravager set, and the Shintao set. That's all he had going for damage. I did not include anything like Seeker, as well, which would be a major advantage for, well, just about any weapon user over a monk due to their terrible crit profile.

[Taimasan]

I would like to see those calculations, shame you lost em.

[ThePrisoner]

Hummm, where is the VoD loot thread? I read the last 6 pages and all I see is monk this and monk that...

Is VoD any harder then before? Is the new loot in anyway rarer then the old one?

2 linked items and then 19 pages of opinions, opinions about those opinions, and god knows what else. Sifting through these pages is such a waste of time.

I wish these loot threads could just contain pictures of the loot. I would much rather see that than the same six people blabbering page after page.

[gloopygloop]

2 linked items and then 19 pages of opinions, opinions about those opinions, and god knows what else. Sifting through these pages is such a waste of time.

I wish these loot threads could just contain pictures of the loot. I would much rather see that than the same six people blabbering page after page.

Simple solution: look at the picture and then unsubscribe from the thread after you make your contribution to the 19 pages of opinions by adding your opinion.

[elraido]

2 linked items and then 19 pages of opinions, opinions about those opinions, and god knows what else. Sifting through these pages is such a waste of time.

I wish these loot threads could just contain pictures of the loot. I would much rather see that than the same six people blabbering page after page.

Change the amount of responses per page. I only have 4 pages listed for this thread.

[solacerodgers]

Just a last thought on the monk topic ........... when my monk can go farm epic scrolls in echrono or sands then you can complain until then monks overpowered i think not. When the wraps of Wail come out you let me know ...

[gloopygloop]

Just a reminder to everyone who runs VoD on Elite: If that sword pops up in the chest under your name, please let it rot in the chest instead of inflicting it on any Paladins in the party who might mistakenly think that it's a good weapon.

[elraido]

Just a reminder to everyone who runs VoD on Elite: If that sword pops up in the chest under your name, please let it rot in the chest instead of inflicting it on any Paladins in the party who might mistakenly think that it's a good weapon.

Yeah, that is great advice.

[RedDragonScale]

Any changes to these in the 12.1 patch?

[Havok.cry]

You know that one ring... i'd like one for my wf AM so I can run yugo pots and maintain 100% fort.

[crimsonrazac]

Just a last thought on the monk topic ........... when my monk can go farm epic scrolls in echrono or sands then you can complain until then monks overpowered i think not. When the wraps of Wail come out you let me know ...

I've been scroll farming echrono on my monk since it came out

[sephiroth1084]

Just a reminder to everyone who runs VoD on Elite: If that sword pops up in the chest under your name, please let it rot in the chest instead of inflicting it on any Paladins in the party who might mistakenly think that it's a good weapon.

The sword is likely getting fixed/upgraded at some point in the future. Paladins should be hunting it down now and banking it until then.