New Elite VoD Loot

[Diyon]

Correct, you can't take unarmed strike, sorta how the monk can't take Rage, frenzy, or death frenzy.

Actually, not like that at all. In PnP, improved unarmed strike is feat pretty much anyone can take, all it does is allow you to do lethal damage with unarmed strikes (and maybe ups the damage to 1d6). In DDO, I imagine that would just make you not attack at sloth speed. Monks get it as a bonus feat. Rage, frenzy, etc are not feats in PnP you have to take appropriate classes to use them.

And for all intents and purposes, you can't make an unarmed barb in DDO, because without the feat, its beyond silly, with it, it would at least be kind of reasonable.

Wrong on pretty much all counts.
Acid burst + blast = pretty **** good considering monks +crit multi for the now vastly overpowered mountain stance also works on increasing burst dmg... Unlike berserker bonuses. A quick calc shows they work out about equal dps to holy with earth stance, but surpass it if you apply the earth finisher.

Its not an earth finisher, or finisher at all, its a strike you take with enhancements.

[Noelemahc]

Arguing over stupid things aside, there are several things that are wrong with this weapon:

1. It is cold iron, and has axiomatic burst. This is clearly a demon beater. The subterrane has more devils than demons. As per the description, said Paladin ventured in to the sub to battle the denizens. Why would he do it with a subpar weapon? Limiting the "awesome" sword (which is in point 2) to just a beater of one type is limiting.

2. This sword sucks. For one it's a longsword, and unfortunately in DDO longswords by default are all suck. The only exception is Enduring Conviction post update 12 which actually becomes ok as a trash beater and nothing more. Even then it's only because of the silly amount of extra dice damage it gets to make up for it's terrible crit profile which DDO relies so heavily on.

3. Crafted weapons are still better than raid loot, especially since it is significantly harder to acquire this than a crafted weapon. +5 holy silver/cold iron khopesh of greater evil outsider (or law/chaotic) bane is better than this weapon. The only thing that requires is just grinding up the essences you get as you are questing. The Divine Vengeance requires getting together a group of people who hopefully aren't ********, and relying on them to reliably complete an elite VoD. Oh yeah, and relying on them to not just loot it or roll on it even if they are on Sorcerers or Bards, etc. People are loot*****s, and take everything they don't need.


There are a couple even minor tweaks that could make this sword actually awesome for a Paladin. Let's face it, Paladin needs a bone and definitely not random vendor trash weapons that are worse than what is in the game already. Honestly this would be good enough:

Divine Vengeance
Longsword (Bastard Sword, and Great sword versions as well)
1d8 base damage (1d10 against evil outsiders for longsword, 2d6 for bastard sword, and 3d6 for great sword), 19-20 x2 crit (x3 crit on a 19-20 against evil outsiders)
Holy Burst
Greater Good
Radiance
Spell Resistance 35
Greater Dispelling (probably can just drop it.. I mean what trash mobs really have effects that need to be dispelled?)
Cold Iron
Silver

Another cool thing I think that would make the sword interesting: Paladin Defensive auras +1. However that's probably asking too much.


Sure it's a little stronger, but I think it would be worth it enough to actually go out and get and it would be marginally better than crafted weapons. Obviously the main effects would only work for Paladins. As it is the current weapon is just trash and every option out there is a better option. Green steel, Enduring Conviction, crafted weapons, etc. With the suggested upgrades I'd imagine it would be useful at least as a niche weapon.

Anyway, my 2 pennies.

[NXPlasmid]

I think that you know better then to give the explanation of monks being "pay to win." as a excuse to Monk's now having a equal if not chance to surpass what you cherish. And we both know what we are talking about. Your a great player, you have done great things. But you have a hard head sometimes. I guess, I have played nothing but a monk from when I started and that is all i know, and some people may say im a weak player because of that. But think about it, you are not V.I.P. but do you own WF, or HO? Just consider it.
Because I loved the Monk class when people said it was nothing but a waste. I suppose in a way, I have you to thank for some of my hard work Shade. I remember the when I first started playing and I put up a VON 6 Epic guide. It was not the best quality, but, it had some thought put into it. But what stood out in my mind was that you said the reason why that the dps was so low in the group. Was because of the monk.
I don't think you knew that I was the monk in the group, but never the less...lets just say it lit a fire. And you cannot put it out, its impossible. But. I believe that you need to take a step back, and just reflect on not the state of what you cherish, but, instead how to constantly evolve that of which you cherish.
No matter what anyone says or how horrible or how behind or how stupid it is, you have to do it. Because in all builds and all things therein, if there is a will, there is a way.

I have to agree that Shade's "pay to win" comment is offensive, however you are wasting your time discussing it with him. He has specific ideas about the game and how it should be played and neither you nor I are going to change that. It's just a game, I love my monks. I don't care if Shade wants to throw mud, it doesn't change my mind. T

[butlerfamilywa]

Its not an earth finisher, or finisher at all, its a strike you take with enhancements.

Wrong, sorry.

Earth - Earth - Earth finishing move is what increases your crit range, not the Earth strikes taken by enhancements, those only increase your base damage.

The Trembling Earth - Level 1 Monk Bonus Feat (Automatic)
Ki Cost: 10 - Earth:Earth:Earth Finisher - The force of the earth is behind your attacks, increasing your critical attack multiplyer by 2 and partially bewildering your foe, preventing them from casting spells. A successfull Fortitude ends this effect. Lasts 30 seconds.


Which, a Monk in Earth 3/4 Stance, would then be throwing out a 20x3 on a normal attack, and then a 20x5 on a finisher strike... 19-20 if using IC:Bludgeon.. and with the Monk strikes, this increases the burst damage from things such as Acid Burst, Holy Burst, and Shocking Burst, ect...

[WruntJunior]

Too bad earth stance is now mostly useless for raid situations for most monks. So much threat gen. Completely offsets the benefit of the crit multiplier for me (which is already worse than air stance bonuses in my opinion). Sadness.

However, monks should still be benefiting from the earth finisher (in part because of how good the earth strikes are), just not so much the earth stance crit multiplier.

[Cyr]

Too bad earth stance is now mostly useless for raid situations for most monks. So much threat gen. Completely offsets the benefit of the crit multiplier for me (which is already worse than air stance bonuses in my opinion). Sadness.

However, monks should still be benefiting from the earth finisher (in part because of how good the earth strikes are), just not so much the earth stance crit multiplier.

Earth stance gained off the top damage reduction like the shield feats grant in U12.

That will increase their tanking ability. The stance is for these tanking situations now. It is easy enough to switch to air stance when you do not want agro.

[DrNuegebauer]

I have to agree that Shade's "pay to win" comment is offensive, however you are wasting your time discussing it with him. He has specific ideas about the game and how it should be played and neither you nor I are going to change that. It's just a game, I love my monks. I don't care if Shade wants to throw mud, it doesn't change my mind. T

Don't worry too much about Shade. He just loves barbars so much - when something else becomes a DPS option he hits his real life rage button.

[WruntJunior]

Earth stance gained off the top damage reduction like the shield feats grant in U12.

That will increase their tanking ability. The stance is for these tanking situations now. It is easy enough to switch to air stance when you do not want agro.

I agree, earth stance is superawesome for tanking now. I get the feeling it's going to become the "*** N00B" thing for people using it in raids, though...not the majority, but the "special" few.

Also, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot is not an acceptable acronym? sadness.

[Diyon]

Wrong, sorry.

Earth - Earth - Earth finishing move is what increases your crit range, not the Earth strikes taken by enhancements, those only increase your base damage.

The Trembling Earth - Level 1 Monk Bonus Feat (Automatic)
Ki Cost: 10 - Earth:Earth:Earth Finisher - The force of the earth is behind your attacks, increasing your critical attack multiplyer by 2 and partially bewildering your foe, preventing them from casting spells. A successfull Fortitude ends this effect. Lasts 30 seconds.


Which, a Monk in Earth 3/4 Stance, would then be throwing out a 20x3 on a normal attack, and then a 20x5 on a finisher strike... 19-20 if using IC:Bludgeon.. and with the Monk strikes, this increases the burst damage from things such as Acid Burst, Holy Burst, and Shocking Burst, ect...

Well holy ****! I thought that only did the spell casting part! Learn something new everyday. Does that part work regardless of the save? I'm freaking using that all the time now on my acrobat if so. Thank you!

For the record though, what I was thinking of was this:

Fists of Iron - Level 6 Monk Enhancement (Select)
Ki Cost: 5 - Earth - Performs a melee attack with +1 critical multiplier.

Which totally does up your crit multiplier, not base damage.


Seriously though! Does the crit part only work on that target when they fail the save, or do all your attacks get that for 30 seconds even if you do it when there's nothing to hit?

[Habreno]

Well holy ****! I thought that only did the spell casting part! Learn something new everyday. Does that part work regardless of the save? I'm freaking using that all the time now on my acrobat if so. Thank you!

For the record though, what I was thinking of was this:

Fists of Iron - Level 6 Monk Enhancement (Select)
Ki Cost: 5 - Earth - Performs a melee attack with +1 critical multiplier.

Which totally does up your crit multiplier, not base damage.


Seriously though! Does the crit part only work on that target when they fail the save, or do all your attacks get that for 30 seconds even if you do it when there's nothing to hit?

The bonus 2x crit multiplier is on that strike set alone. It is applied to all strikes made in a certain time frame, and like Touch of Death, is an active feature of all your strikes for a very short time frame. Enough to get a quadruple strike if you get extremely lucky, but most of the time 2x or 3x proc. And the bonus crit multipliers only affect your damage if you crit- if you roll a 16, 2, 10, and 18, none of those are crits and there's little point in firing it off.

[Tom_Hunters]

Arguing over stupid things aside, there are several things that are wrong with this weapon:

1. It is cold iron, and has axiomatic burst. This is clearly a demon beater. The subterrane has more devils than demons. As per the description, said Paladin ventured in to the sub to battle the denizens. Why would he do it with a subpar weapon? Limiting the "awesome" sword (which is in point 2) to just a beater of one type is limiting.

2. This sword sucks. For one it's a longsword, and unfortunately in DDO longswords by default are all suck. The only exception is Enduring Conviction post update 12 which actually becomes ok as a trash beater and nothing more. Even then it's only because of the silly amount of extra dice damage it gets to make up for it's terrible crit profile which DDO relies so heavily on.

3. Crafted weapons are still better than raid loot, especially since it is significantly harder to acquire this than a crafted weapon. +5 holy silver/cold iron khopesh of greater evil outsider (or law/chaotic) bane is better than this weapon. The only thing that requires is just grinding up the essences you get as you are questing. The Divine Vengeance requires getting together a group of people who hopefully aren't ********, and relying on them to reliably complete an elite VoD. Oh yeah, and relying on them to not just loot it or roll on it even if they are on Sorcerers or Bards, etc. People are loot*****s, and take everything they don't need.


There are a couple even minor tweaks that could make this sword actually awesome for a Paladin. Let's face it, Paladin needs a bone and definitely not random vendor trash weapons that are worse than what is in the game already. Honestly this would be good enough:

Divine Vengeance
Longsword (Bastard Sword, and Great sword versions as well)
1d8 base damage (1d10 against evil outsiders for longsword, 2d6 for bastard sword, and 3d6 for great sword), 19-20 x2 crit (x3 crit on a 19-20 against evil outsiders)
Holy Burst
Greater Good
Radiance
Spell Resistance 35
Greater Dispelling (probably can just drop it.. I mean what trash mobs really have effects that need to be dispelled?)
Cold Iron
Silver

Another cool thing I think that would make the sword interesting: Paladin Defensive auras +1. However that's probably asking too much.


Sure it's a little stronger, but I think it would be worth it enough to actually go out and get and it would be marginally better than crafted weapons. Obviously the main effects would only work for Paladins. As it is the current weapon is just trash and every option out there is a better option. Green steel, Enduring Conviction, crafted weapons, etc. With the suggested upgrades I'd imagine it would be useful at least as a niche weapon.

Anyway, my 2 pennies.

don't think it's really wrong... as i bet it's modeled after the DnD sword... (cold iron, greater dispel, a boost to SR [though it was save but nvm])
and in the 3.5 DnD sense, demons are nemesis of paladins due to the totally opposite alignment
that's also why it's axiomatic

i think they assumed u might get an artificer around,
and that the sword is not exclusive, so u can dual wield them

[Diyon]

The bonus 2x crit multiplier is on that strike set alone. It is applied to all strikes made in a certain time frame, and like Touch of Death, is an active feature of all your strikes for a very short time frame. Enough to get a quadruple strike if you get extremely lucky, but most of the time 2x or 3x proc. And the bonus crit multipliers only affect your damage if you crit- if you roll a 16, 2, 10, and 18, none of those are crits and there's little point in firing it off.

Short time frame? It says thirty seconds but is the +2 multiplier part shorter? I'm glad to see that it applies regardless though. None of this ever occurred to me because AFAIK, it doesn't show up on your buff bar.

If this really works, my acrobat is going to enjoy a lovely new 17-20/x4 crit profile.

[sephiroth1084]

Short time frame? It says thirty seconds but is the +2 multiplier part shorter? I'm glad to see that it applies regardless though. None of this ever occurred to me because AFAIK, it doesn't show up on your buff bar.

If this really works, my acrobat is going to enjoy a lovely new 17-20/x4 crit profile.

The multiplier is just on that hit. It has no duration. What the poster meant was that, like other strikes, if you get a TWF proc or a doublestrike proc on that strike, you can get 2 or 3 "copies" of the +2 crit multiplier on that attack. Where 4x is coming from, I don't know--think that got fixed long ago.

In any case, I am unconvinced that earth stance is better DPS than wind, especially in raid situations where the boss likely has some degree of Fort. We're talking about bonus damage on rolls of 19+, some of which may be stopped by fortification vs. 10% more damage. Fire is +2 damage on every hit and likely more Ki to use on strikes. Has anyone run the numbers to figure out which stance actually has the highest DPS now?

I figured the earth bonus crit multiplier was attached to simply making using the stance not such a big drop in DPS, but could be wrong.

[Diyon]

The multiplier is just on that hit. It has no duration. What the poster meant was that, like other strikes, if you get a TWF proc or a doublestrike proc on that strike, you can get 2 or 3 "copies" of the +2 crit multiplier on that attack. Where 4x is coming from, I don't know--think that got fixed long ago.

In any case, I am unconvinced that earth stance is better DPS than wind, especially in raid situations where the boss likely has some degree of Fort. We're talking about bonus damage on rolls of 19+, some of which may be stopped by fortification vs. 10% more damage. Fire is +2 damage on every hit and likely more Ki to use on strikes. Has anyone run the numbers to figure out which stance actually has the highest DPS now?

I figured the earth bonus crit multiplier was attached to simply making using the stance not such a big drop in DPS, but could be wrong.

Oh well if this is the case, then I'm betting the multiplier part gets a save too, in which case, earth-earth-earth goes back to being useless to my acrobat (Not TWF so no offhand, although I suppose I could doublestrike, and an absolutely cruddy DC, 1 lvl of monk).

[sephiroth1084]

Oh well if this is the case, then I'm betting the multiplier part gets a save too, in which case, earth-earth-earth goes back to being useless to my acrobat (Not TWF so no offhand, although I suppose I could doublestrike, and an absolutely cruddy DC, 1 lvl of monk).

No, it isn't subject to a save. When you use the finisher, you make an attack that has a higher crit multiplier and carries an effect that calls for a asve.

[Diyon]

No, it isn't subject to a save. When you use the finisher, you make an attack that has a higher crit multiplier and carries an effect that calls for a asve.

That being true, I'll make sure to use it now, although once again on my acrobat, probably won't be doing too much more than usual. Thanks for clarifying.

[sephiroth1084]

That being true, I'll make sure to use it now, although once again on my acrobat, probably won't be doing too much more than usual. Thanks for clarifying.

I find it rather disappointing since the change to helplessness as it often feels like a waste...crits aren't coming up all that often.

[Hurak]

In any case, I am unconvinced that earth stance is better DPS than wind, especially in raid situations where the boss likely has some degree of Fort. We're talking about bonus damage on rolls of 19+, some of which may be stopped by fortification vs. 10% more damage. Fire is +2 damage on every hit and likely more Ki to use on strikes. Has anyone run the numbers to figure out which stance actually has the highest DPS now?

I figured the earth bonus crit multiplier was attached to simply making using the stance not such a big drop in DPS, but could be wrong.

Sephiroth, I have run some figures comparing all the stances and as I was trying to explain in an earlier thread, for 50% and 0 fort mobs, Earth Stance 3 and 4 provides the top dps, if wearing Jidz bracers or the Equilibrium garments. For 100% fort mobs, Air was the better stance. The increase in base wrap damage and the bonus crit magnitude on a 19 and 20 was convincingly greater than the dps gained from the extra 7-8 strikes (at Tier 3) from doublestrike. (Note. I assume all stances have haste negating the inherent speed bonus in Air).

So will the proposed changes to Earth Stance change my game plan? Probably not. Unbuffed, my Ac is in the 50's and without any agro reducing gear, I'll pull most agro normally so for trash and sub-bosses, Earth stance and for Bosses, I'll drop into Air.

[Rathic]

I think it would be much better if the sword got an extended crit range to mesh with smites

the weapon is subpar for devils... and thats probably why it is loot... it got the original wielder killed

seriously tho it should be focused on killing evil no matter the type with a wide crit range

maybe put disruption and banishing on it?

[gloopygloop]

I think it would be much better if the sword got an extended crit range to mesh with smites

the weapon is subpar for devils... and thats probably why it is loot... it got the original wielder killed

seriously tho it should be focused on killing evil no matter the type with a wide crit range

maybe put disruption and banishing on it?

It's in Suulomades's chest because the party wiped when the Paladin weilding it kept dispelling all of the debuffs and DoTs that were on Suulo.