New Elite VoD Loot

[Crazyfruit]

...Nightmare Phantasmal Killer: A level-appropriate monster passes the saving throw 99.75% of the time, so you'll expect one kill per 4000 hits of non-immune creatures.

The DC on phantasmal killer from the Nightmares line of effects seem to be much higher than expected. The Terror blade worked surprisingly well in most content last time I tried it, after reading everyone saying it was junk on the forums - as did items with Nightmare Guard.

[sirgog]

The DC on phantasmal killer from the Nightmares line of effects seem to be much higher than expected. The Terror blade worked surprisingly well in most content last time I tried it, after reading everyone saying it was junk on the forums - as did items with Nightmare Guard.

DC was buffed to 36 in U10. (Was 23 previously IIRC).

[Angelus_dead]

The DC on phantasmal killer from the Nightmares line of effects seem to be much higher than expected. The Terror blade worked surprisingly well in most content last time I tried it, after reading everyone saying it was junk on the forums

Well, when Terror first came out I tested it extensively in PVP, and found that people were passing the save on a 15. Typical monsters of level 18 have Will of 18+.

[LeLoric]

DC was buffed to 36 in U10. (Was 23 previously IIRC).

This

Well, when Terror first came out I tested it extensively in PVP, and found that people were passing the save on a 15. Typical monsters of level 18 have Will of 18+.

Not this.

36 is not great but in non epic non amrath it will actually kill a fair amount.

[Alundaar]

was testing it in elite wep shipment and it seemed to proc every now and again ... altho i only brought it out once or twice i got 3 pks outta it prob about 150 hits it's a real nice set of wraps and the dot isn't too terrible would like it to have a longer duration maybe 10 secs cause it was resetting a lot.

[sephiroth1084]

Dragon's eye

That's not difficult to get...it's just hard to come by. It has a low droprate in an easy, level 10 raid (or easy lvl 12 if you're doing elite loot runs). If you want it at level, yeah, it's tough. If you want it at level 20 in order to make it epic, it's a piece of cake.

The Divine Avenger at least comes out of a significantly harder quest.

[UrbanPyro]

Deleted.

[Esserbe]

was testing it in elite wep shipment and it seemed to proc every now and again ... altho i only brought it out once or twice i got 3 pks outta it prob about 150 hits it's a real nice set of wraps and the dot isn't too terrible would like it to have a longer duration maybe 10 secs cause it was resetting a lot.

A guildmate absolutely loves Terror, it works great even on normal mode Shavarath quests, he gets a *lot* of PK's.

[Necrological]

well after a few days of field testing divine vengeanace......... it did remove the protective buffs from any enemy you come across, but sadly it did remove debuffs and DoTs as well. eiyher this weapon gets fixed or jus not put it in the update at all.......

[Dunklerlindwurm]

A guildmate absolutely loves Terror, it works great even on normal mode Shavarath quests, he gets a *lot* of PK's.

I noticed this too on my Melee Artificer Life.

I used an upgraded Terror during IQ and Dreaming Dark Runs and it killed almost any humonoid target on the first Crit even on Hard.

Im guessing they sneaky upgraded the DC of it? I dont know but landing normal Will based Spells on these mobs is way harder.

Or maybe it has to do with Artificers raising the DC of Terror ?

[elraido]

Does this drop on anything but elite?

Even if it were easy to get, none of my proposals has anything to do with how easy to acquire the weapon is. Are VoN base items difficult to get? No. Are they rather good when made epic? Yes. There need be no correlation between the base item and the upgraded one in terms of how easy or hard to get they are. Heck, look at Chronoscope! I've got so many copies of each base item that I just throw them away, yet they are excellent when made epic, and those are a hell of a lot easier to get than anything we're talking about here, and I (oddly) see elite loot runs of Chrono in 10-20 groups semi-regularly.

This at least is somewhat challenging for high level characters to acquire.

Okay, you clearly missed my point.


This weapon should not be a filler weapon for characters at level 18 and 19 before they make their Cannith crafted/greensteel/epic/alchemical weapon of choice. That is doing a disservice to the idea of this weapon and to the point of including it in the game at all. There are plenty of weapons in a comparable level range that players can acquire.

This weapon should be upgradeable. Whether that means using some epic system, or alchemical system, or drawing upon several different raids/quests/systems, I don't know, but it should be a quest for the paladin who has acquired this to unlock its full potential. That may mean the sword's ML raises to 20.

You can quote 17d6 on a crit to me all you like, but until you put up some actual DPS numbers, it's meaningless. The fact is, it has a terrible crit profile, and simply having a better profile would almost match this weapon for DPS even with half the effects this possesses.

Sure, SR 35 is nice, but you can get 32 from a lvl 20 cleric, favored soul or artificer (Mass SR scroll +5 CL), and in epics, that SR will do almost nothing. Whoopee! Then we have the Greater Dispel, which, while appearing nice, may dispel debuffs on the monsters, which would make it a true piece of junk. Last I saw, that remained to be seen.

The DPS is okay...if the monster is both evil and chaotic aligned. If it isn't, the weapon is junk, and you know what? Even within the niche that this should be awesome...it isn't.

The thing needs to be better, whether we're talking the base item or some upgraded version.

You did read what I have put several times in to this thread, right? I have repeatedly said, It needs either about 2d8 base damage or x3 crit or 18-20 crit profile. Once that happens it will be a good weapon. Until then, it isn't horrible for players who don't have anything else and they manage to pull it.

[gloopygloop]

well after a few days of field testing divine vengeanace......... it did remove the protective buffs from any enemy you come across, but sadly it did remove debuffs and DoTs as well. eiyher this weapon gets fixed or jus not put it in the update at all.......

This makes me very sad.

When swinging a weapon ends up causing you to effectively do negative DPS, that's a bad thing.

[Darkrok]

A guildmate absolutely loves Terror, it works great even on normal mode Shavarath quests, he gets a *lot* of PK's.

I'd assume the PK's proc on glancing blows as well, right? If so I may have to rethink my weapon of choice on my bard.

[Diyon]

I'd assume the PK's proc on glancing blows as well, right? If so I may have to rethink my weapon of choice on my bard.

I don't think so. You have a chance for magical effects on a glancing blow, but to get a PK to proc, you need to crit. Glancing blows do not crit.

[sephiroth1084]

You did read what I have put several times in to this thread, right? I have repeatedly said, It needs either about 2d8 base damage or x3 crit or 18-20 crit profile. Once that happens it will be a good weapon. Until then, it isn't horrible for players who don't have anything else and they manage to pull it.

I have read what you've said, but clearly you haven't read, or haven't understood, what I have been saying. Simply improving its crit profile (and really, improving its base damage isn't going to salvage this by itself), will not make this an excellent weapon. It won't even make it a very worthwhile weapon for anyone but the most undergeared paladins making their way to cap.

More importantly, though, my point was: WHY SHOULD THE HOLY AVENGER--THE ICON WEAPON OF PALADINS THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR FOR YEARS--FINALLY COME OUT, ONLY TO BE A PLACEHOLDER WEAPON UNTIL CHARACTERS CAN GET THEIR HANDS ON ONE OF A HALF DOZEN OTHER, BETTER WEAPONS, SOME OF WHICH ARE EASIER TO ACQUIRE OR HAVE A MUCH LOWER ML?

Answer that. Why should the new addition to the elite difficulty of a raid in a clear attempt to get more people running the raid, and to finally satisfy the call for a Holy Avenger, be so weak as to be usable, maybe for only 2 levels (assuming you somehow manage to get the thing in your first half dozen, or dozen VoD runs before hitting level 20), and only against a handful of enemies? What's the point of the thing? Why include it in the game at all?

[Vordax]

This makes me very sad.

When swinging a weapon ends up causing you to effectively do negative DPS, that's a bad thing.

This is really a poor design decision. I can just see a paladin with this weapon going into epic DQ and being yelled at when they try to use this weapon.

Why would they have it remove debuffs and dots?

Vordax

[Angelus_dead]

This is a really poor design decision
....
Why would they have it remove debuffs and dots?

It's probably not even exactly a "decision" at all... a "decision" implies they knew what they were doing, while in this case it's more that they were following two different directions from elsewhere without looking at the consequences.


They did this from a simple combination of 4 factors:
1. They felt like making a DDO version of D&D's Holy Avenger.
2. The Holy Avenger in D&D 3.5 includes Greater Dispel Magic.
3. Greater Dispel Magic is a broken design in DDO.
4. The item designer didn't know that Greater Dispel Magic is a broken design.


Seriously, the approach to fixing this item effect is to just go and fix the behavior of Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic:
When you cast Dispel Magic on an enemy it should attempt to remove only beneficial spells. Dispel Magic on a friend should attempt to remove only harmful spells.

In D&D it is highly important for Wizards, Clerics, and even Sorcerers to carry Dispel Magic, because enemy spells are dangerous and you never know what they might have going. But DDO has utterly failed to reproduce that interaction.

[sephiroth1084]

It's probably not even exactly a "decision" at all... a "decision" implies they knew what they were doing, while in this case it's more that they were following two different directions from elsewhere without looking at the consequences.


They did this from a simple combination of 4 factors:
1. They felt like making a DDO version of D&D's Holy Avenger.
2. The Holy Avenger in D&D 3.5 includes Greater Dispel Magic.
3. Greater Dispel Magic is a broken design in DDO.
4. The item designer didn't know that Greater Dispel Magic is a broken design.


Seriously, the approach to fixing this item effect is to just go and fix the behavior of Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic:
When you cast Dispel Magic on an enemy it should attempt to remove only beneficial spells. Dispel Magic on a friend should attempt to remove only harmful spells.

In D&D it is highly important for Wizards, Clerics, and even Sorcerers to carry Dispel Magic, because enemy spells are dangerous and you never know what they might have going. But DDO has utterly failed to reproduce that interaction.

I'd actually prefer Dispel Magic to get a choice of how it works, similar to DBF:

• Dispel harmful effects - mostly used on self or allies to remove enemy debuffs and DoTs, but can be used on enemies under the effect of one of your own (or an ally's) spells in the event that that spell is going to cause a problem, such as putting a DoT on something that you don't want to die yet.
• Dispel positive effects - mostly used on enemies that have been buffed, but may occasionally be used on self to remove an unwanted buff, albeit without discriminating between buffs you want and those you don't.

Give the Divine Avenger the Dispel harmful effects version.

[Backley]

I'd actually prefer Dispel Magic to get a choice of how it works, similar to DBF:

• Dispel harmful effects - mostly used on self or allies to remove enemy debuffs and DoTs, but can be used on enemies under the effect of one of your own (or an ally's) spells in the event that that spell is going to cause a problem, such as putting a DoT on something that you don't want to die yet.
• Dispel positive effects - mostly used on enemies that have been buffed, but may occasionally be used on self to remove an unwanted buff, albeit without discriminating between buffs you want and those you don't.

Give the Divine Avenger the Dispel harmful effects version.

Great idea. This needs to be done.

[Darkrok]

I'd actually prefer Dispel Magic to get a choice of how it works, similar to DBF:

• Dispel harmful effects - mostly used on self or allies to remove enemy debuffs and DoTs, but can be used on enemies under the effect of one of your own (or an ally's) spells in the event that that spell is going to cause a problem, such as putting a DoT on something that you don't want to die yet.
• Dispel positive effects - mostly used on enemies that have been buffed, but may occasionally be used on self to remove an unwanted buff, albeit without discriminating between buffs you want and those you don't.

Give the Divine Avenger the Dispel harmful effects version.

Very good suggestion. Would also be nice if they started adding more casted immunities rather than blanket immunities to enemies.