New Elite VoD Loot

[Darkrok]

Sword is pretty blah. Some good ideas for changing it in here. As a longsword it is really weak. Keep it a long sword but give it better dmg/crit for sure. Also hopefully there is a GS version for those THF pally's out there.

One thing about the holy avenger is it's supposed to be unique to each pally so maybe give it an unlockable set of effects or give it a set number of crafting levels so that each pally can tailor it to his wants/desires.

I've got an insane idea for the Holy Avenger weapon. Make it a bound to character scroll that when read provides a feat to upgrade the summoned weapons from Paladin's Holy Sword spell. Reading the scroll would not consume it (allowing TR's to re-read it at the appropriate level).

Downsides are that you'd have to summon it each time you log in. It can't be crafted with rituals or cannith crafting. Upsides though are pretty big. 1 item = works for all paladins. If you change your weapon type on your paladin no problem! Just summon the new weapon type. And if Turbine makes changes to the weapon in the future they don't have to worry about having problems with the old version of the item. Players just summon it again and get the new version right away.

[SableShadow]

What missions should they put it in if it isn't going to be VoD? Not that it would matter much.

/shrug

Desert is where our demons are.

But I think that's really irrelevant; the fundamental question is "where should a holy avenger fall in the power spectrum?".

Old school AD&D would probably put it up there near the artifact level; 3.0/3.5 would rank it in the "really good pali weapon" category (where it is now, if I read the screenie correctly).

Really depends on where any particular person thinks it should rank in the spectrum.

[Qezuzu]

Maybe make it as good as Holy Sword spell on a first life Paladin, and ramp up its damage for each Paladin past life you have, and with 3 past lives you have "best possible weapon for a Paladin in all situations, slightly above the second best possible."

That'd be a rather cool and unique item.

[elraido]

Maybe make it as good as Holy Sword spell on a first life Paladin, and ramp up its damage for each Paladin past life you have, and with 3 past lives you have "best possible weapon for a Paladin in all situations, slightly above the second best possible."

That'd be a rather cool and unique item.

Oh Lord no! The grind...oh the grind. I refuse to TR my main paladin. He has too much into tomes and waaaaaaay too much favor to do that.

[Jay203]

What missions should they put it in if it isn't going to be VoD? Not that it would matter much.

what about the epic version of "A Relic of Sovereign Past"?

[elraido]

what about the epic version of "A Relic of Sovereign Past"?

Sweet baby Jesus! Epic Tysus!!! I command this to happen!!!!!

[Aaxeyu]

You do realize they would need to make an epic VoD, add shards and seals and scrolls to make this happen right? That is a lot of resources to do that for one item at this point. IF they wanted to upgrade it, I can see them making it like what they are doing with Gianthold and Abbott, but I do not see them making VoD an epic raid any time soon.

What? No, they would not need to make epic VoD.
I will repeat myself again (because you clearly don't get it): "They should make it upgradeable with 30 epic raid tokens to add..."

Why the heck would they need to add shards and seals and scrolls to make the weapon upgradeable by using raid tokens only? There is something that doesn't make any sense at all!

[FuzzyDuck81]

I've got an insane idea for the Holy Avenger weapon. Make it a bound to character scroll that when read provides a feat to upgrade the summoned weapons from Paladin's Holy Sword spell. Reading the scroll would not consume it (allowing TR's to re-read it at the appropriate level).

Downsides are that you'd have to summon it each time you log in. It can't be crafted with rituals or cannith crafting. Upsides though are pretty big. 1 item = works for all paladins. If you change your weapon type on your paladin no problem! Just summon the new weapon type. And if Turbine makes changes to the weapon in the future they don't have to worry about having problems with the old version of the item. Players just summon it again and get the new version right away.

/signed

This would be very cool

[elraido]

What? No, they would not need to make epic VoD.
I will repeat myself again (because you clearly don't get it): "They should make it upgradeable with 30 epic raid tokens to add..."

Why the heck would they need to add shards and seals and scrolls to make the weapon upgradeable by using raid tokens only? There is something that doesn't make any sense at all!

So, in order to upgrade it (a level 18 item) you need to wait until you are level 20 and are able to run epic missions to get the tokens to add an effect. That doesn't make any sense at all! What alter would you use to upgrade it? The one in the market doesn't take epic tokens. The one in the 12, you need scrolls, shards, seals etc to upgrade as well. So, you would need to alter the code on one of those alters (we all know how well that works out for turbine when they alter preexisting code) in order for your idea to work.

[Aaxeyu]

Why are you making such a big deal out of this?

So, in order to upgrade it (a level 18 item) you need to wait until you are level 20 and are able to run epic missions to get the tokens to add an effect. That doesn't make any sense at all!

That's how almost ALL epic items works. Maybe it doesn't make any sense to you, but to the rest of us it does.
Where is the problem again?

What alter would you use to upgrade it? The one in the market doesn't take epic tokens. The one in the 12, you need scrolls, shards, seals etc to upgrade as well. So, you would need to alter the code on one of those alters (we all know how well that works out for turbine when they alter preexisting code) in order for your idea to work.

Epic items are not a result of a phenomena that the devs discovered in the game code. They could easily change what you need to upgrade something.

Heck, just put it in the epic barter shop, can't get any simpler than that.

[Zeruell]

So, in order to upgrade it (a level 18 item) you need to wait until you are level 20 and are able to run epic missions to get the tokens to add an effect. That doesn't make any sense at all! What alter would you use to upgrade it? The one in the market doesn't take epic tokens. The one in the 12, you need scrolls, shards, seals etc to upgrade as well. So, you would need to alter the code on one of those alters (we all know how well that works out for turbine when they alter preexisting code) in order for your idea to work.

Point of note: item slotting and item revision upgrades do not use scrolls, shards, or seals. The epic altar handles these without issue.

[Mighty_Bozo]

Why not make this new weapon an ingredient for a more powerful shard for cannith crafting that we'd call Holy Avenger. Make it +14 Potential, so it'd be an unbound shard for lvl 1 crafter to make, but you'd still need to use it as it is while u get someone to get you the potential shards required for it or do it yourself. Anything like that, but make it in a way it can be upgradeable, as a base item is fine, but it's not worth wielding it for endgame content.

[elraido]

Why are you making such a big deal out of this?

That's how almost ALL epic items works. Maybe it doesn't make any sense to you, but to the rest of us it does.
Where is the problem again?

Epic items are not a result of a phenomena that the devs discovered in the game code. They could easily change what you need to upgrade something.

Heck, just put it in the epic barter shop, can't get any simpler than that.

But you said it your self, this wouldn't be an epic item!!!!! Why give it the advantages of an epic item when it isn't one!!!! That is the point I am getting at. It is just a raid item. Plain and simple. There is no epic VoD, so there should be no need to upgrade the item with raid tokens!! Once they make an epic VoD, go gangbusters on it! There is just ZERO instances in the game where ONE item out gets upgraded to basically epic status with out going threw epic quests. (events don't really count, they are limited time events.)

The problem is, you want an epic weapon out of a regular raid by bypassing all the game mechanics used to make epic weapons.

[sephiroth1084]

/shrug

Desert is where our demons are.

But I think that's really irrelevant; the fundamental question is "where should a holy avenger fall in the power spectrum?".

Old school AD&D would probably put it up there near the artifact level; 3.0/3.5 would rank it in the "really good pali weapon" category (where it is now, if I read the screenie correctly).

Really depends on where any particular person thinks it should rank in the spectrum.

I feel like it should be generally strong enough that a paladin would want this to be their main weapon in most cases. It's the only weapon in the game tailored to a specific class, and I feel like it would be a complete waste of effort and opportunity for awesomeness if it ended up being weaker than, say, a Shroud weapon. Weaker than a Cannith raid weapon...I think that would be reasonable, as those are pretty strong and rather difficult to fully upgrade...unless this became upgradeable using the same materials. That actually would be my preference, for it to be on par with the weapons that come out of LoB and MA fully upgraded, but using materials from those raids, or that are just as difficult to acquire (difficult, not long...that is, just as difficult to get as stuff from Epic LoB).

They should make it upgradeable with 30 epic raid tokens to add:
+10
Greater "evil" bane (greater bane against all evil mobs)
"evil" slaying (vorpal against all evil mobs)
Pure good
Holy
Metalline
Good version of vampirism


Paladins really need a boost, and this would go a long way.

Greater Evil Bane sounds pretty good. I think that if they went that route, it should actually become:
1d8 19-20/x3
+6
Greater Evil Bane
Greater Chaotic Bane
Holy Burst
Axiomatic Burst
Metalline
Radiance
Greater Dispelling (paladin level for CL)
SR 15+paladin level
and then something that enhances LoH, smite evil and/or turn undead, possibly according to PrE chosen.

That would be a rather ridiculous weapon vs. Chaotic Evil opponents, and a solid one against opponents that were either non-evil or non-chaotic, which I think is reasonable.

Oh, and there should be a Greatsword version of this with a x3 crit multiplier, but standard range.

So there should be ONE regular raid loot item in the game that is upgradeable to an epic item? That doesn't make any sense at all. Not only that, but then it would need to be made level 20.

Why not? There is only one piece of raid loot in the game that is upgradeable in the Dreamforge (Dreamspitter). There is only one piece of raid loot in the game (I think) with no ML (Quiver of Alacrity), and only a couple that are BtA rather than BtC (Dreamspitter again, and I think one other).

The thing has to go somewhere, and it should be strong enough that it is actually something most paladins really want to use.

[Aaxeyu]

But you said it your self, this wouldn't be an epic item!!!!! Why give it the advantages of an epic item when it isn't one!!!! That is the point I am getting at. It is just a raid item. Plain and simple. There is no epic VoD, so there should be no need to upgrade the item with raid tokens!! Once they make an epic VoD, go gangbusters on it! There is just ZERO instances in the game where ONE item out gets upgraded to basically epic status with out going threw epic quests. (events don't really count, they are limited time events.)

The problem is, you want an epic weapon out of a regular raid by bypassing all the game mechanics used to make epic weapons.

Ofcourse it would be an epic item! I never said that it wasn't.
Yes, you are correct that it is just a raid item, which is why I suggested that the upgrade should require epic raid tokens.
The fact that there is no epic vod is irrelevant. Epic raid tokens are all the same, no matter where you got them.
There is also no law of nature that says that you can only make an epic item if the base item drops in a quest or raid that can be run on epic.

Are you saying that my suggestion is bad because it's something new? Well, that's just ridiculous.
You would have to go through 30 epic raids to upgrade the item, is that not enough?


Why is that a problem? What is wrong with a new way to make one item epic?
It's a special item, why can't it get special epic treatment?
Is there actually anything wrong here or do you just not like change and new ideas?

[Scraap]

I feel like it should be generally strong enough that a paladin would want this to be their main weapon in most cases. It's the only weapon in the game tailored to a specific class, and I feel like it would be a complete waste of effort and opportunity for awesomeness if it ended up being weaker than, say, a Shroud weapon. Weaker than a Cannith raid weapon...I think that would be reasonable, as those are pretty strong and rather difficult to fully upgrade...unless this became upgradeable using the same materials. That actually would be my preference, for it to be on par with the weapons that come out of LoB and MA fully upgraded, but using materials from those raids, or that are just as difficult to acquire (difficult, not long...that is, just as difficult to get as stuff from Epic LoB).

That actually makes the most sense, come to think of it. Say, ability to throw it into the last shroud altar with a t3 shard? That'd add the customizability, while keeping it internally consistent with the pack.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Ofcourse it would be an epic item! I never said that it wasn't.
Yes, you are correct that it is just a raid item, which is why I suggested that the upgrade should require epic raid tokens.
The fact that there is no epic vod is irrelevant. Epic raid tokens are all the same, no matter where you got them.
There is also no law of nature that says that you can only make an epic item if the base item drops in a quest or raid that can be run on epic.

Are you saying that my suggestion is bad because it's something new? Well, that's just ridiculous.
You would have to go through 30 epic raids to upgrade the item, is that not enough?

Why is that a problem? What is wrong with a new way to make one item epic?
It's a special item, why can't it get special epic treatment?
Is there actually anything wrong here or do you just not like change and new ideas?

Bolded for emphasis.

[Aaxeyu]

Greater Evil Bane sounds pretty good. I think that if they went that route, it should actually become:
1d8 19-20/x3
+6
Greater Evil Bane
Greater Chaotic Bane
Holy Burst
Axiomatic Burst
Metalline
Radiance
Greater Dispelling (paladin level for CL)
SR 15+paladin level
and then something that enhances LoH, smite evil and/or turn undead, possibly according to PrE chosen.

That would be a rather ridiculous weapon vs. Chaotic Evil opponents, and a solid one against opponents that were either non-evil or non-chaotic, which I think is reasonable.

Oh, and there should be a Greatsword version of this with a x3 crit multiplier, but standard range.

Yeah, it should be more powerful than any other weapon. It would be an interesting way to balance paladins.

A two handed version is a good idea.

[Thrudh]

I only read page 1 {about Omniscience} But...Boy are you guys jaded.

I've also seen the other thread about Divine Vengeance and all the people complaining about it ONLY being a long sword.

I'll say again - Boy are you guys Jaded!

It is pretty sad that a sword like that is considered "trash".

Tells you just how Monty Haul this campaign has become...

The devs have given us just way too much stuff.

[Thrudh]

I'm waiting to see the heavy repeater from Hound which shoots xoriat bees......

LOL... Oh my God that's awesome....

Homer Simpson: Or what? You'll release the dogs or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you?