Looking for opinions/advice, ftr/pal/rog

[Lauf]

Hi,

I'm looking to TR one of my toons (a cleric) and I've decided to go with a fighter for his next life.

the idea I've been toying around with is making an evasion twf fighter - a scimitar wielding elf.
since I don't have the monk class available, a rogue splash seemed like the way to go.
I have a SP greensteel item from the cleric life that I wanted to be able to use, so I took 5 lvls of pally and got improved saves and divine sacrifice (5d6 dmg for 1sp).
that left me with a free level to play with (so far we had 2 rogue, 5 pally, 12 fighter) and the best use I could find for it was a 3rd rogue level for the extra sneak attack damage.

went with the elf for displacement (dragonmark) and +2 to scimitar attack/damage
pally faith gives another +1 to scimitar attack

as for skills, I think I'll try and keep balance and jump high, and try to get a UMD of about 20 from my rogue levels so I'd be able to use most items.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(12 Fighter \ 5 Paladin \ 3 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 350
Spell Points: 35 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 16
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         16                    16
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    18
Bluff                -1                     1
Concentration         3                     5
Diplomacy            -1                     1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                     3
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     6
Intimidate            3                     5
Jump                  7                    25
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                  3                     5
Swim                  7                    11
Tumble                7                     8
Use Magic Device      3                    19

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 14 (Fighter)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance II
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
Enhancement: Follower of the Undying Court
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Scimitar Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Flanking Mastery I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

all in all my questions are:
1. is this a decent build, or am I better off with just going 18/2 fig/rog?
2. how can it be made better?

I should mention that I try to avoid relying on tomes in my builds whenever possible, this one relies on a +1 dex tome for the twf line of feats.

any input would be welcome,
thank you.

[unbongwah]

I like the idea, but not the execution. My advice:

Class split: I would do rogue 2 / pally 6 so you can add a pally PrE - HotD for +10% heal amp & free Ghost Touch, KotC for fighting EOs, or DoS for stance, hate-tanking, etc.

Base stats: less CON, more CHA and possibly INT. One of the best things about pally splash is Divine Grace; why shortchange that by dump-stating CHA? Plus Divine Might I will add some burst DPS. Something like 16/16/14/10/8/14; maybe INT 12 CHA 12 if you have a +2 CHA tome. [Need base CHA 14 for DM I.]

Skills: I would definitely max UMD, possibly Intim if you have the pts to spare; extra pts into Balance & Jump; you don't need to max them out.

Feats: GWF:S, Lightning Reflexes, and OTWF are all weak feats. Consider Extend (double duration of Displacement free), Greater Shadow DM (extra Lesser use + Shadow Walk), and Force of Personality (boost Will saves).

Enhs: definitely try to max out Haste Boost and Extra DM; give up Enchantment Resist, Crit Accuracy III (only need II for Kensai I/II), attack bonuses (hopefully your to-hit will be high enough without them) if need be.

[unbongwah]

Quick-n-dirty build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Female
(12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 344
Spell Points: 70 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 16
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    26
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             12                    14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    17
Bluff                 1                     4
Concentration         2                     5
Diplomacy             1                     4
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                     6
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  3                     6
Intimidate            5                    27
Jump                  7                    22
Listen               -1                     2
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock             7                     8
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                1                     4
Spot                  3                     6
Swim                  3                     8
Tumble                7                     8
Use Magic Device      5                    25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+8)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Scimitar Specialization I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I

[Munkenmo]

i'm leveling a w/f 2 rogue 6 pally 12 fighter atm.

below is a quick mock up of my plan.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 294
Spell Points: 50 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 15
Will: 8

                  Starting            Ending          
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats        
(34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
Strength             17                 24            
Dexterity            15                 17            
Constitution         14                 16            
Intelligence         10                 12            
Wisdom                8                  8            
Charisma             12                 14            

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 14 (Fighter)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR

obviously i took the rogue level at 1 for skill points.
the 2 paladin levels are for cha bonus to saves
the third paladin level is a personal preference because i hate being feared.
6 fighter levels to unlock kensai quickly
1 rogue cause now traps / spells finally start to hurt
6 more fighter cause kensai II's power surge is huge
3 paladin to finish off and get stalwart prestige.

you'll notice i put off improved crit slashing for a while, this is because i have min 2's and it wasn't a priority till i found i want more damage and switch to lit 2's. ymmv

[Lauf]

Unbongwah, fTdOmenthank, you for your replies.

first off the idea of losing some con for cha & int was one I liked, as well as the idea of picking up intimidate. that way with displacement and evasion, I could tank on occasion when the need arises. both have been adopted, tyvm!

I also loved the idea of adding extend to double displacement duration, had no idea that it worked with dragonmarks, thanks for the tip

as for the 6th paladin level, I think I won't take it simply because I don't like the PrEs. they're too situational IMO, with the exception of the defender, but the defender just doesn't work well with the sneak attack dps. most of the time I won't want the attention.
as for the others, if I'm going to build a situational dps build, I might as well add 1d6 to my sneak attack, since most of the time I'd be fighting living corporeal creatures who aren't evil outsiders. so I think I'd get more mileage out of going down that route, and without the additional cost of enhancement points.

unfortunately without a mineral II weapon I.Crit slashing will be taken as early as possible, but I'll definitely be maxing out haste in the final version.

thanks for all your advice, it's been most helpful!

[karl_k0ch]

as for the 6th paladin level, I think I won't take it simply because I don't like the PrEs. they're too situational IMO, with the exception of the defender, but the defender just doesn't work well with the sneak attack dps. most of the time I won't want the attention.

If you don't like the PrEs, that's one thing. The other thing is that you are missing two essential enhancements: Exalted Smite, which is a very nice DPS boost, and Divine Righteousness, which will help you to keep aggro if you need to tank.

Even without their admittedly situational DPS bonuses, the two DPS PrEs add some utility:
KotC I adds one extra smite in addition to the extra damage against Evil Outsiders.
HotD I adds healing amp, extra turning clickies (ie Divine Might and Divine Righteousness), extra Remove Disease, and a free Lesser Restoration clickie in addition to the free ghost touch property.

[unbongwah]

I also loved the idea of adding extend to double displacement duration, had no idea that it worked with dragonmarks, thanks for the tip

FYI, Dragonmarks count as SLAs; as such, any relevant metamagic will affect them. A DMed halfling who can squeeze in Emp, Emp Heal, and Max gets some pretty impressive heals off.

as for the 6th paladin level, I think I won't take it simply because I don't like the PrEs.

As karl points out, even without the situational DPS bonuses, each PrE has some added utility. Plus going pally 6 also gets you:

• Next bump in Divine Favor (from +1/+1 to +2/+2)
• 2nd lvl 1 spell slot
• Remove Disease ability
• Access to Divine Righteousness, Exalted Smite I, and deity ability