Dear Artificers

[furbyoats]

I'm so happy that you got carried through a skelly run and you pulled a tira's splendor...good job. Seriously, my hat is off to you. However, just because your dinky plinker can now bypass DR, you should still carry silver weapons for the raid party. I know you don't need it, but realistically I don't need your sub-par DPS when i could throw a meathead barb in your slot. An arti who doesn't carry silver weaps is like a bard who doesn't sing songs. Sure they can throw out some buffs and hit stuff, but ultimately they are brought in as a support role.

which is what an arti is, a support class.

So please, my dear failed artificers, carry buffs that will boost the party damage output....and much like most bards, you can pike away after you buff.

Next time I hear this mindless jargon about how "I don't carry silver weapons because I don't need it," I will be more than happy to express how my FvS doesn't carry mass heals/cures...because I don't need them.

[Vengenance]

I really hate to agree with Toastee here, but...

/signed

I also hit ya w/ a +1 because of the neg rep you'll likely receive for posting this.

[Glenalth]

So you are saying that you want people to contribute and use their resources to help other people so that the group can complete?

[SHOCK_and_AWE]

So you are saying that you want people to contribute and use their resources to help other people so that the group can complete?

Yes. How dare he make such a statement!

But along those lines, carrying silver weapons is akin to a fleshie arcane carrying Reconstruct; while the spell is useless for them personally, it can greatly help the group when cast on the warforged taking a beating from the devil general. It will make your contribution to the group even greater and will garner appreciation for your increased role.

EDIT: Thank God for Lazarus.

[redspecter23]

Yes. How dare he make such a statement!

But along those lines, carrying silver weapons is akin to a fleshie arcane carrying Reconstruct; while the spell is useless for them personally, it can greatly help the group when cast on the warforged taking a beating from the devil general. It will make your contribution to the group even greater and will garner appreciation for your increased role.

EDIT: Thank God for Lazarus.

I'm actually seeing fewer fleshy sorc arcane's carrying reconstruct these days, not because it isn't useful, but because they are carrying better spells in those slots for the quests they're focusing on. The declining population of WF tanks probably didn't help the cause. I remember back in the day when VoD was a nightly raid, I devoted one of my sorc slots to reconstruct to help the group. This differs greatly from the artificer situation as silver weapons is an amazing group buff if you're running certain quests and if you are about to go into one of those certain quests, you can just set the spell in much the same way a cleric or wizard could. The only acceptable excuse for not having silver weapons for that quest is that you've been extremely unlucky finding the scroll and your most recent level up went to something far better like blade barrier or reconstruct. If an arty has the spell memorized and is purposely not bringing it into shroud or tod, they are doing the party a disservice.

[furbyoats]

So you are saying that you want people to contribute and use their resources to help other people so that the group can complete?

Madness!

[Stillwaters]

OUCH!

Firstly i agree with carrying the Silver weps/other buffspells,
but REALLY??!? why hate on repeater dps,
a WELL BUILT and PLAYED toon will do quite respectable ranged dps..and cost party less resources
a badly MADE barb MIGHT just do less...and cost a lot more in hjeels

Hate not knowing if to give you a +1 or neg you... (^^)

[Kilnedric]

No problem! But can you remind your grouped Arty to bring it? Sometimes, it's just an oversight. Maybe he's been soloing and had something else slotted. A friendly request before entering the quest can make it all better.

[furbyoats]

OUCH!

Firstly i agree with carrying the Silver weps/other buffspells,
but REALLY??!? why hate on repeater dps,
a WELL BUILT and PLAYED toon will do quite respectable ranged dps..and cost party less resources
a badly MADE barb MIGHT just do less...and cost a lot more in hjeels

Hate not knowing if to give you a +1 or neg you... (^^)

Quick question...you're a bit light on dps for the party...do you take a) and art or b) basically anything else?

Repeaters can do okay damage, but if you expect me to believe that a repeater arti can out dps a pure dps build then you're just crazy.

Not hating on repeaters at all, i'm currently levelling an arti. Hating on players being d-bags and acting like nubs.

[furbyoats]

No problem! But can you remind your grouped Arty to bring it? Sometimes, it's just an oversight. Maybe he's been soloing and had something else slotted. A friendly request before entering the quest can make it all better.

He was asked repeatedly before he even shrined in part 3. he got ****y and told everyone to quit asking him for the buff...then he linked the tira's splendor and proceeded to explain that he doesnt need the buff since he has that rune arm. He had the ability to carry it but refused to because he got a rune arm to break his pew pew dr.

TL;DR - Guy was a Huge Bag of D*****ry

[KannyaAryien]

It seems to me that the same issue can exist with Paladins and Rangers. Both are able to toss out party buffs that would save arcane/divine sp. How often do they do so, or offer to do so? It's been rare, in my experience. They pony up when asked, but that's about it. Regardless, try to help the party as much as you can. Nuff said.

[SHOCK_and_AWE]

I'm actually seeing fewer fleshy sorc arcane's carrying reconstruct these days, not because it isn't useful, but because they are carrying better spells in those slots for the quests they're focusing on. The declining population of WF tanks probably didn't help the cause. I remember back in the day when VoD was a nightly raid, I devoted one of my sorc slots to reconstruct to help the group. This differs greatly from the artificer situation as silver weapons is an amazing group buff if you're running certain quests and if you are about to go into one of those certain quests, you can just set the spell in much the same way a cleric or wizard could. The only acceptable excuse for not having silver weapons for that quest is that you've been extremely unlucky finding the scroll and your most recent level up went to something far better like blade barrier or reconstruct. If an arty has the spell memorized and is purposely not bringing it into shroud or tod, they are doing the party a disservice.

Perhaps I made a bad comparison, but I am sure such an analogy among the spellcasting and buff-capable classes and artificers carrying this spell exists.

[LOOON375]

My Arty carries the group oriented buffs and I will buff as needed. He also carries a great axe to melee with.....which is most of the time.

And my Arty isn't a slouch at melee damage either.

Xbow is used situationally only, similar to how I used many shot with my Ranger.

I will add this though: Do not rely on buffs to get by, whether they be from a cleric, bard, Arty, or whatever. What do you use when an Arty isn't in the room?

[Stillwaters]

Quick question...you're a bit light on dps for the party...do you take a) and art or b) basically anything else?

Repeaters can do okay damage, but if you expect me to believe that a repeater arti can out dps a pure dps build then you're just crazy.

Not hating on repeaters at all, i'm currently levelling an arti. Hating on players being d-bags and acting like nubs.

On the burst i think my Rifleman COULD out-dps MANY of the builds i see posted in the forums, Manyshot/hasteboost followed by fusillade damageboost is some surprisingly good numbers.

And i have been in pugs with a LOT of Blitz builds that cannot live up to their toons design:
My point is its about the quality of PLAYER not the build..

Arty DPS includes survivability as a component which MANY toons that TBH NEED BABYSITTING cannot manage. That doesnt mean all Blitz cant survive anymore than it means all repeater builds can DPS, its the player BEHIND the build that manages that.

To answer your question, if you cannot pick the first 5 - or 11 players hitting your LFM then you might want to look at your OWN build.

If my shroud group didnt have an arty in it to cast silver weps on the group, id ask for players to bring boss beaters. Assuming that the arty that joins is going to Silver wep you is stupid planning, tho i still agree in YOUR CORNER CASE, the arty in question would make my list after being ASKED to switch a spell and not doing it to benefit a BAD group.

One question i haven't seen asked or answered in here:

Did your group complete - even with the selfish players it seems it was comprised of?

[Terminus-Est]

Speaking as an artificer who recently pulled his Tira's...

Of course I'm still carrying Silver Weapons. What the hell else would I do with the slot?

I'm gonna have 3 or 4 level four slots available to me, so lets see what I want to have in them;

1. Prismatic Strike
Pretty good dps, respectable single-target CC, not too expensive. A real winner.
2. Radiant Forcefield
I've never actually cast this spell. But I will! Eventually, swear to god.

And thats pretty much it. The last slot is totally up for grabs and should be filled with Silver or Planar weapons, IMHO.

Because my other options are... what? Mass Bulls Strength? No thanks, thats terrible. Repair/inflict serious mass? Uh, no. If I want to inflict mass, it'll be a crit thanks. If I want to repair mass, it'll probably be a light. Tenser's Transformation doesn't really improve my DPS by that much and its a terrible idea most of the time anyways.

Curative Admixture: Remove Curse, Planar Weapons and Silver Weapons are three spells competing for 1-2 slots. Generally, I run Silver weapons, then Silver and Remove Curse. Simple as that.

There arn't that many good level 5 spells, this isn't hard guys, come on.

[aleqkabo]

I find it funny that a buff like "silver weapons" would be a requirement to run any quest. If I found myself in a party where people are concerned because no one is casting that then I'd be seriously preocupied about my party.
That said I would definitely agree that SW is a great buff and I would much rather use my (silver)LitII than my MinII on any pit fiend.
Now it all comes down to the asking. If you asked from your (laughable) "I'm high DPS" high horse and "you support classes are here so I can finish the quest for you" then I'm pretty sure a lot of people will blow you off just for the heck of it. But reading the original post I'm sure it happens a lot.

[WannaBeDonator]

It means that if you are not using something that no other class can use, or at least not every (no matter what it is: Silver weapons / search-disarm / haste / gh / fom / frenzy / impr. sunder / polar ray / songs / smites / stuns etc etc etc), than u're definetely doing something WRONG. And u're definetely not a teamplayer.

[apep1412]

[...] Did your group complete - even with the selfish players it seems it was comprised of?

Good to know that if I request for someone to help a group at no to little personal expense, then I'm a selfish player.

[Paleus]

Since a few people have come on and just not seem to get it let me back up the OP's point. We dont need silver weapons or bard songs or -insert x- support buff to complete a quest. But if you are on a class that can significantly boost party dps for minimal investment and you refuse to do so then we also don't need you either. It would be like a light monk refusing to take the time to stun buff on ToD because they themsleves wont get stunned so why should they lower their dps from time to time. Sure, kudos to you but what about everyone else?

This is not to say everyone will refuse to group with you or that somehow you'll cause the group to wipe all of a sudden. It does mean people will mentally note that you're not a team player and won't consider inviting you along for anything else, and some will blacklist you since you're easily replaced by just any other meathead dps who also doesnt give out party buffs but can more easily (not always) do more dps than you. If all you want to do is run pug shrouds then that won't effect you much. But rather than taking this as a knock on your characters or a whine about a bad run take it as a bit of advice that can help make people mentally flag you as that person we really want in our parties because he/she goes the extra mile (inch in this case) to help the party out rather than that person who is easily replaceable by anyone else.

[fasteddie8989]

I play an Arty and just so people know (most are learning) wepon enchantments do not show up on the buff bar. If an Arty casts silver wepons on your wepon you have to look at the equiped wepon to see it. Armor of speed, luck cape, the sonic armor one forgot name are some others that do not show up on the buff bar.