Arcanes: please assume your party could use Blur.

[Maugrim101]

There's players who will do everything they can to make a quest as smooth and easy for the whole group to complete and there's players who don't really care as long as they get their shinys in the chest at the end.

Everything else is just noise.

[mobrien316]

I agree with the OP that Blur can often be a useful buff to have. I very much disagree with his shoving off the responsibility for Blur onto the arcane.

Why should it be the arcane's responsibility to remember to Blur you, rather than your responsibility to ask for Blur if you want it?

If you want a buff, ask for it. My casters are glad to help out anyone who asks for a buff, but it is not my job to go down the line and buff everyone with every single spell I have memorized.

At the start of a quest I will throw mass buffs - if you don't want them for some reason, you should know to step aside. After that I will usually ask if anyone wants anything specific. If no one speaks up then I am done buffing.

[Daggertooth]

I think for many casters, it's like their moment in the spotlight, when they get to show off their mastery of their class by demonstrating to the poor stupid melee who asked for Blur, that they can give them a better buff (duh!) that offers more concealment. I think it's in the throws of that particular epiphany, the casters miss the bigger picture.

Blur is cheap and effective and there's a good chance that melee actually knows more about the game than you, so just give it to them.

This is mildly amusing. As the caster who knows more about the game than you do (my sorc takes 5 random melees on epics with no need for a healer), I will tell you I am not that against blur and some of what you've said makes sense but I simply do not slot it. I have a wand of it if someone makes that much of a stink about it, but that would never happen in a group that my sorc is in. And anyone who makes any kind of demand on my sorc before the quest begins has already stuck his foot in his mouth. If the OP starts a quest with some random group, and after 5 minutes he sees that blur would benefit people then fine I see no problem with him trying to get the caster to cast it.

[Daggertooth]

Blur is cheap and effective and there's a good chance that melee actually knows more about the game than you, so just give it to them.

I for one do NOT like being told what to cast and I do NOT like anyone having any expectations whatsoever about what spells I have. You say its 'cheap and effective' well if I'm on my sorc, spell points are not an issue and if I'm on my wizard you should have your own blur item if its so 'effective'. Too many melees are extremely lazy and I do not like their atttitude, especially in epics "gh plz". You should have your own GH and I don't care if 'its only 11 minutes'. If it takes more than 11 minutes for you to get to the shrine then you don't belong in Epics in the first place. I play a sorceror mostly and I buff everyone to the hilt but if I don't do it, I don't want to be asked for it. Take your Epic Antique Great Axe out of your a** and go get yourself a gird.

Funny all my melees carry 2 GH items and also have nimble trinkets because blur is useful especially if you have a decent AC.

Your 'blur plz' argument carries no weight at all because if its as useful as you say it is then there is no reason you shouldn't have it on an item. And I'll be the judge of whats 'cheap' when I am on my wizard who has limited spell points thank you, I am not here to provide buffs for you because they are 'cheap'. Your lucky your gettin haste. Other than haste you should have your own stuff.

[slimkj]

Blur is cheap and effective and there's a good chance that melee actually knows more about the game than you, so just give it to them.

Generalise much?

[Darknark]

Blur is cheap and effective and there's a good chance that melee actually knows more about the game than you, so just give it to them.

1 - LOL, because melee are automatically more knowledgeable with game mechanics than casters?

2 - If they know as much as you claim they will ask. If they don't ask or ask at a stupidly inopportune time they can get a backpack ride.

[fuzzy1guy]

My personal annoyance... Asking for blur in part 4/5 of shroud.

WHERE IT DOES NOTHING AT ALL! You really need blur for the leutenants? Come on now... They're not going to be alive long enough to bother.

My usual buff rotation anymore is stoneskin (any non fvs), gh, jump. And haste and go. Unless i know something specific is needed. And that we don't have it yet.

And i will never buff another arcane. Unless i think you're gimp and gonna need displace/whatever because you died 12 times upto that point in the quest. Or that you seem to be missing the 100% required resist energy and there is some damage of type X comming up.

[mudfud]

I know you have Blur, I can see it on you.
You know I don't have Blur, there are no lines around me.
We both know how useful Blur is.

Can we please go back to the days where I didn't have to remember to ask for Blur every single quest?
Even after I do ask for it, newer players seem too shy to make the request.

Even if you look down on poor lowly melees, do it for your fellow Blue-bars, the healers.
Very few spells beat the defensive "bang-for-your buck" of Blur.

I know you're not my buff-bot, and hate me for it if you must, but please just give everyone Blur!

No there are not lines around you! I blur you, there are still no lines around you. Oh you must be wearing an item with blur on it. Doh. I saw no lines and assumed you had no blur.

Oh your a porcupine build that loves using your guards. I just blurred you because you seem to think blur is an automatic thing. Doh! Now the guards won't go off as much.

No, I will not blur you unless you ask for it.

Along those lines. No I will not give you GH either even if you ask for it, since there are easily obtained items in the game that you can get your own GH clicky. Now, if the quest happens to be taking longer where that GH wears off, I will gladly give it to you.

And my favorite, no I will not haste you. I will haste me. And if you happen to be near me when I do haste me, you will also benefit. Just be lucky I don't break out my Time-Sensing Goggles and tell you that the 3 charges of 30 seconds is the only haste I have. If you want me to haste you give me a SP potion to cover your personal haste, or just keep using those 30 second pots. Or better yet craft a few air air greensteel for 3 charges of 1.5 minutes each.

[MrTops]

I'm playing my first arcane and I'll put a GH and Blur on any non arcane in the group.

It's not that many spell points for a stacking +4 to most everything and a 20% miss.

And I have 25% striding boots which is plenty fast enough, so I won't bother to haste myself. But I will haste if people are happy to gather for it, or they are beating on the boss.

But I guess I'm more of a team player and don't feel the need to lead the kill count as long as we complete.

[Darknark]

team player

Not the point.

Some builds are made to deal additional damage via guards, receive buffs via guards, incapacitate (ie: make helpless via earthgrab guard or similar) enemies, or (divines/arcanes mostly) recharge SP at a massive rate through a torc/dual conc-opp combo.

By auto bluring you not only waste sp, but you are actually lowering the contribution of these party members and may increase their chance of using SP pots.

As for GH, if they don't need the save boost, or the to-hit boost then its a waste.

You're a team player? Then ask. Its not that hard. Otherwise you risk damaging the group's effectiveness.

[Nagantor]

Along those lines. No I will not give you GH either even if you ask for it, since there are easily obtained items in the game that you can get your own GH clicky. Now, if the quest happens to be taking longer where that GH wears off, I will gladly give it to you.

That's the point where I hope to never end up in groups with you. Not unless some smarter arcane with GH is there as well.

Hint: there's not many items giving GH and it's not fun to grind those until you finally get one and it's not going to hold for very long. You think those few SP are better spent on some damage then improving the party - fine. I think I can find better players to fill my party slots. Expect people to have essential items but never to have any self buffs just because an item with them happens to exist at all.

[Darknark]

That's the point where I hope to never end up in groups with you. Not unless some smarter arcane with GH is there as well.

Hint: there's not many items giving GH and it's not fun to grind those until you finally get one and it's not going to hold for very long. You think those few SP are better spent on some damage then improving the party - fine. I think I can find better players to fill my party slots. Expect people to have essential items but never to have any self buffs just because an item with them happens to exist at all.

ehh... I can see his argument...Heroism pots are half as good, Gh scrolls are just as good, as well as clickies.... the +4 to hit usually doesn't matter outside of epics (unless the character has low to-hit) and the +4 saves (while nice) isn't mandatory (with exceptions.... boosting the saves of a raid-tank is preferable....).

[MrTops]

Not the point.

Some builds are made to deal additional damage via guards, receive buffs via guards, incapacitate (ie: make helpless via earthgrab guard or similar) enemies, or (divines/arcanes mostly) recharge SP at a massive rate through a torc/dual conc-opp combo.

By auto bluring you not only waste sp, but you are actually lowering the contribution of these party members and may increase their chance of using SP pots.

As for GH, if they don't need the save boost, or the to-hit boost then its a waste.

You're a team player? Then ask. Its not that hard. Otherwise you risk damaging the group's effectiveness.

The DDO Wiki suggests Storm Guard has a 2% chance to proc for an average of 600 damage, or 12 points per hit.

Mobs would have to do 12 points per hit or less for blur to reduce the outgoing damage of Storm Guard by more than it reduced incoming damage.

Do the math and blur make sense most of the time.

And I'd guess the 15 sp for blur at least will be saved by the divine in the group.

But that's besides the point.

Because I've never had anyone complain that I've given them blur and GH, that's become by default position. Until I experience otherwise it will continue to be my default position.

I imagine people who don't want blur are in the minority. They can ask not to have it.

And every other arcane can play however they want.

[mudfud]

That's the point where I hope to never end up in groups with you. Not unless some smarter arcane with GH is there as well.

Hint: there's not many items giving GH and it's not fun to grind those until you finally get one and it's not going to hold for very long. You think those few SP are better spent on some damage then improving the party - fine. I think I can find better players to fill my party slots. Expect people to have essential items but never to have any self buffs just because an item with them happens to exist at all.

And that's why I wouldn't want to be in a group with you either. You expect just because I can cast Fire resist you will not get a greater resist cloak/ring, or heck even craft a 45 resist item.
You expect because I have sp and can cast haste you will not spend your plat on haste pots.
Because it might take time to farm for a GH clicky you don't want to do it.

I personally don't want to group with anyone who doesn't take the time to be as self sufficient as possible. Those are the people I will GH, Blur, Jump, Invis, Resist. The people who actually try to get those things.
People like you who expect a blue bar to cast it because that SP doesn't cost alot is why threads like this are made about once a month or so.

[Darknark]

Mobs would have to do 12 points per hit or less for blur to reduce the outgoing damage of Storm Guard by more than it reduced incoming damage.

Because I've never had anyone complain that I've given them blur and GH, that's become by default position. Until I experience otherwise it will continue to be my default position.

I imagine people who don't want blur are in the minority. They can ask not to have it.
.

1) I am under the impression that anyone building to deal extra DPS via guards has more than one. If you have a logical response to why this isn't the case, then by all means state it.

2) If you Blur any caster (or melee with blue bar: pally, ranger) without asking you reduce their potential to regenerate SP by 20%. Its easy to ask and then buff, its a pain to have to debuff yourself to remove blur.

3) Most casters (Divine or Arcane) want to get a Torc and conc-opps, therefore it is logical to assume that they have attempted to get them and *might* have them (and likely succeeded with getting the Greensteel)

4) Un-wanted blur reduces the effective SP regeneration for ALL casters. - that includes those divines you claim to be helping.

5)You claim to be a team player. So play with the team and ask first.


Yet another example:

A person is using a Docent of Defiance, and gets it to proc, they now have 20 DR/- for 20seconds.
You blur them.
Now due to "bad luck" combined with your blur further reducing the odds that their DoD procs enough in the 20 seconds to keep the buff up 100%, they fail to reliably re-trigger the Dod.
They sporadically gain and lose 20DR/-.
When they don't have the buff they are now taking far more damage than they would be without blur, and because of the lower chance that the buff is sustainable the incoming damage is likely higher than it would be if the person wasn't blurred.


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But these have been my arguments all along.... not really much to add because this is it. No point in me continuing to restate it.

[transtemporal]

These days there are many items that have a blur effect on them. I don't cast it unless asked. Same goes for GH. I don't cast either of these in very caster heavy quests like eda.

[MrTops]

I think we've been a bit distracted from the original post.

So, the pro's and con's of blur vs. guard effects not withstanding, I'll cast blur on everyone in my party unless I'm asked not to.

People don't expect to have to ask divines for healing. I think this is an analogous situation.

But I'm sure you all carry on as before

[Moltier]

You forgot one thing. You are the minority in the game. Just like me, or most of the forum users. For 99% of the playerbase, blur is usefull.

1) I am under the impression that anyone building to deal extra DPS via guards has more than one. If you have a logical response to why this isn't the case, then by all means state it.

- If your build have dps guards on your melee, that means you are geared, and play at high, or epic level. Also that means each hit will be serious to you. A few hit, and you need a heal, which cost mana. Each time the divine heals you, a blur could save some time and mana. Each time you take a hit, your guards deal pathetic damage. You may can reach 25-30 avarage damage/hit... awesome. So after 10 hits, you loose 500-800hp, and deal a whole 300damage? Yeah, that 4-8k hp mob will scream.

2) If you Blur any caster (or melee with blue bar: pally, ranger) without asking you reduce their potential to regenerate SP by 20%. Its easy to ask and then buff, its a pain to have to debuff yourself to remove blur.

- Casting a blur on another caster is foolish. On a pala or ranger? It will save more mana for the divine then regen for the ranger or pala. And the divines sp is way more important.

3) Most casters (Divine or Arcane) want to get a Torc and conc-opps, therefore it is logical to assume that they have attempted to get them and *might* have them (and likely succeeded with getting the Greensteel)

- Nope, most of the casters dont have Torc. They may have a Conc-opp. Most of the divines arent super geared 600+hp tanks. Again. We are the minority.
Still, i wouldnt cast blur on an another caster. They can decide if they want it and cast it by themself.

4) Un-wanted blur reduces the effective SP regeneration for ALL casters. - that includes those divines you claim to be helping.

5)You claim to be a team player. So play with the team and ask first.


Yet another example:

A person is using a Docent of Defiance, and gets it to proc, they now have 20 DR/- for 20seconds.
You blur them.
Now due to "bad luck" combined with your blur further reducing the odds that their DoD procs enough in the 20 seconds to keep the buff up 100%, they fail to reliably re-trigger the Dod.
They sporadically gain and lose 20DR/-.
When they don't have the buff they are now taking far more damage than they would be without blur, and because of the lower chance that the buff is sustainable the incoming damage is likely higher than it would be if the person wasn't blurred.


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But these have been my arguments all along.... not really much to add because this is it. No point in me continuing to restate it.

[SHOCK_and_AWE]

4) Un-wanted blur reduces the effective SP regeneration for ALL casters. - that includes those divines you claim to be helping.

5)You claim to be a team player. So play with the team and ask first.

Hm...I've never considered divines using the Torc or Con Opp for sp purposes. Perhaps I should forgo blurring any primary casters without request, not just arcanes.

[mudfud]

You forgot one thing. You are the minority in the game. Just like me, or most of the forum users. For 99% of the playerbase, blur is usefull.

Nobody is saying it's not useful. From the majority of the posts I've taken the time to read in this thread 99% of people know how useful it is, they just want 1. People to ask if want it. 2. People to not just hand it out if they don't ask for it.


The 99% of the playerbase you are subscribing to should speak up more if they want blur, need blur, desire blur, instead of the 1% that knows when/if they need it and do know how to ask if they do.