Feedback - Challenge - Dr. Rushmore's Mansion: Picture Portals EPIC

[KookieKobold]

Dr. Rushmore has altered the Portraits within his Mansion to help his allies escape!

Unfortunately, he did not account for Adventurers using them as well.



Feel free to leave feedback and discuss the Challenge Dr. Rushmore's Mansion: Picture Portals EPIC in this thread.

[tygara]

Dr Rushmoor boss, and Crystal the Giant boss are FAR too scaled up for an encounter
This is a dungeon pretty much made to solo and split up, and with the map being so big, ya are really split up once ya bump into a boss. When encountering eather one of those 2 bosses (this is btw in every one of the Dr Rushmoor castle challenges, not only this challenge) there is just no way to tackle him solo. Even as a sorcerer, drinking mana potions like lemonade, I was not able to kill eather one of the 2. I drank in the last try against crystal alone 55 major store potions, and he was STILL alive.

- The elementals respawn WAY too fast
- His crowd control has a way too high DC
- His elementals have way too much hitpoints

In my opinion, this could be a very fun and challenging fight to tackle solo, but ya need to have a look to scale down this fight a bit
- Eather need to totally remove the elementals (them on their own are already super challenging without those continuously driving the alert through the roof)
- Or maybe totally remove his crowd control, or make his DCs a lot lower

Just 2 suggestions, but currently as those 2 bosses are scaled, they are way too resourse intensive and totally no fun, coz they get healed way too fast up again by the respawn rate of the elementals

[FlimsyFirewood]

Dr Rushmoor boss, and Crystal the Giant boss are FAR too scaled up for an encounter

Dr. Rushmore and Crystal encounters are working as intended. In fact, we're thinking about buffing their elementals.

[~UltimateSuperman]

Dr. Rushmore and Crystal encounters are working as intended. In fact, we're thinking about buffing their elementals.

Heh, I haven't run this challenge yet, but here is the conversation I am seeing in this post.

Dev1 to Dev2: Hey, there's a couple of people complaining about the difficulty of the Dr. Rushmore and Crystal encounters' bosses.
Dev2 to Dev1: How many is a couple?
Dev1 to Dev2: Ummm, two.
Dev2 to Dev1: And how many people play DDO?
Dev1 to Dev2: Millions, I'm sure of it.
Dev2 to Dev1: So, out of the millions of DDO players, we only have two that are saying the bosses are too difficult?
Dev1 to Dev2: Yep.
Dev2 to Dev1: Well, there is only one solution then...make it harder...mwahahahahah!!!111eleven!!1111ONE111!!!

[protokon]

Dr. Rushmore and Crystal encounters are working as intended. In fact, we're thinking about buffing their elementals.

I approve of this response

[Shade]

Dr. Rushmore and Crystal encounters are working as intended. In fact, we're thinking about buffing their elementals.

While that wouldn't be too bad an idea, however there are some major annoyances with the elementals i'd rather you fix before you consider that, that don't really fairly add to difficulty, but rather just make the encoutner annoying:

- Air Elementals gust of wind has no save.. No save abilities aren't fun, just ends up crippling melee in whats already a VERY caster oriented fight.
- Air elementals knockback also no save.. Again cripples melee, while ranged characters could care less (knockback = good..).. Keep in the mind the knockdown portion does correctly have a save.
- Earth elementals spam stunning blow at a rather fast pace.. It at least has a save, but they seems to have no cooldown.. a longer a cooldown would be fair.
- Water elementsl cause the bosses to heal at a EXTREMELY fast rate.. I mean without quad dmg buff, which often wont be available, outdps'ing there regen is very challenging.. Not sure you intended their regen to be quite so high.

- While it seems you coded the fights to encourage you kill teh elems, its really not worth doing because they respawn far too fast, its better to just burst the bosses down.
Even with quad dmg crushing the elems in seconds, they were back up before I got a chance to attack the boss, making my efforts futile.

So id suggest either:

A) Vastly increase elemental stats, but also vastly increase there casters cooldown on the summon. EG:
lvl21:
Give them all empower (not maximize).
+25% HP
+50% dmg output
Allow crowd control effects
Enforce a 2 minute cooldown so there master can't summon them back the instant you slay them.

lvl25:
Same but give them maximzie and empower
+75% dmg output
no further hp increase (Already rather high)
sane 2 min timer.
Orange name them all to prevent facinate and increase saves vs other CC
Would be far more difficult as the fireballs would be doing in the 300 dmg range now, so not slaying the elems would be near suicide in many grps.

or

B)
Keep ultra fast respawn rate to encourage players to focus on boss, maintain current elem stats and just slightly enhance boss dmg output to encourage players to use strong tanks, strong healing and better party tactics.
Fix annoying no-save elemental abilities to have saves. (Standard str/dex to negate)

[Stormdum]

Tonight I tried Epic Picture Portals on level 21 with a 4 caster party. I know my way around the mansion quite well but it was a horrible pain to navigate those hallways. This dungeon is designed for parties to be able to split up (two-way, even three-way forks) but one wrong step and the entire weight of dungeon alert red brings the house down. The star objectives are a challenge all by themselves but when you add dungeon alert + evading phantasms + the countdown it can get pretty stressful.

Deathblocked Epic Mobs was a low blow after you just gave us the option to death in epic with the spell pass. I don't approve of that a all. That arguement is for a different thread.

Based on what I've seen in Epic PP/21 I either have the tactic completely wrong (the likely case) or there are some edges that need to be smoothed out. Starting with the fact that Hailbop had every clicky but eardweller burning and it was taking me 100s of SP to clear mobs from a single portal. I won't even discuss having to backtrack. No death spells + evasion means limited, 2nd rate spell choices. I may be willing to chug pots on Lamaania but I will not farm stars the way you intend me to if I have to spend mana pots every single time.

There is challenge and there is overboard. This was extreme. And that wasn't even level 25.

[Shade]

This dungeon is designed for parties to be able to split up (two-way, even three-way forks) but one wrong step and the entire weight of dungeon alert red brings the house down. The star objectives are a challenge all by themselves but when you add dungeon alert + evading phantasms + the countdown it can get pretty stressful.

Thats where you made a major strategy mistake. It is in fact a very bad idea to split up, mainly for the reason you stated - dungeon alert, and for another major reason: Crests are randomly assigned, if the wrong person gets the wrong one, your challenge can end right tehre. It's entirely possible to 5 star this dungeon wtih your entire party staying together the whole time, and I very much recommend that you do.

Based on what I've seen in Epic PP/21 I either have the tactic completely wrong (the likely case)

uhuh , see above.

or there are some edges that need to be smoothed out. Starting with the fact that Hailbop had every clicky but eardweller burning and it was taking me 100s of SP to clear mobs from a single portal. I won't even discuss having to backtrack.

mm I was able to clear 6+ mobs in a picture portal using only my SLAs in seconds.. About 10-20 sp tops..

No death spells + evasion means limited, 2nd rate spell choices.

Sounds like your character is a bit limited if he's so reliant on a single way to kill monsters. They are VERY easy and in no way even close to epic stats, and very few have evasion - just the ones that make sense (rogue types, hounds).

I may be willing to chug pots on Lamaania but I will not farm stars the way you intend me to if I have to spend mana pots every single time.

I've easily solo'd this on my VERY poorly geared caster without using pots.. Defintely does not require any, it has a LOT of shrines.

There is challenge and there is overboard. This was extreme. And that wasn't even level 25.

You know this after.. 1 run?

[Symar-FangofLloth]

My one encounter with Crystal the Giant leads me to agree with Shade.
Elementals in general are becoming far to annoying and godmode if you can't kill them fast, and these ones respawn before you can get anything accomplished, and thanks to the regen Crystal heals you can never make any headway.

At least solo. Double check your scaling, guys.

[Shade]

At least solo. Double check your scaling, guys.

I think thats the issue..

Scaling doesnt have any place in epic, and should simply be disabled.

Though scaling generaly doesnt effect healing, which is a reason you might have trouble solo.

He is killable solo even on a moderate dps caster or melee, just take quite a while as you would only jusy barely beat his regen. Shouldn't be an issue in a group, with several times the dps.. His hp would be up several times too, but not his regen.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

I think thats the issue..

Scaling doesnt have any place in epic, and should simply be disabled.

Didn't realize this was the Epic thread. Heh. I had issues with him in the normal version. Tried kiting, instadeaths, beating down elementals, ignoring them and working on the boss....

I might have been able to eventually get it but it was far to frustrating for me to want to.

[FlimsyFirewood]

Yes, we've checked the scaling. The elementals don't scale enough.

I'm surprised that you guys still haven't figured out how these encounters were supposed to be beaten.

[Zaodon]

Yes, we've checked the scaling. The elementals don't scale enough.

I'm surprised that you guys still haven't figured out how these encounters were supposed to be beaten.

This is a very depressing comment from Turbine.

It indicates lack of forethought, and reinforces the community impression that you want us to run quests "your way" or "just one way", and not be creative/inventive in any way when playing the game. If you buff the elementals to further reinforce "your way", or "the way", to beat the quest, that is even more depressing.

[Diyon]

This is a very depressing comment from Turbine.

It indicates lack of forethought, and reinforces the community impression that you want us to run quests "your way" or "just one way", and not be creative/inventive in any way when playing the game. If you buff the elementals to further reinforce "your way", or "the way", to beat the quest, that is even more depressing.

I don't completely agree there. Sometimes a trick is put into beating an encounter, this just means that no one has figured it out yet. Kind of like how the CAD has a method by which you can suppress his regen.

[FlimsyFirewood]

This is a very depressing comment from Turbine.

It indicates lack of forethought, and reinforces the community impression that you want us to run quests "your way" or "just one way", and not be creative/inventive in any way when playing the game. If you buff the elementals to further reinforce "your way", or "the way", to beat the quest, that is even more depressing.

And by creative/inventive you mean: let's bum rush the boss, chug potions and brute force through whatever defenses he has.

This, right here, is the apogee of creativity.

Player #1: Oh what does this one do? I dunno, let's bum rush him.
Player #2: But wait, there are strat...
Player #1:No, let's bum rush him, xp per minute man, what's the hold up, let's go. Chug, chug, chug!
Player #2: It's not working! The regen is too strong!
Player #1: Nuke harder!!!11one!

Turbine Dev #1: ... I dunno, I guess we'll sell more potions or something ...
Turbine Dev #2: Just let it go, man. Let it go.

[stainer]

And by creative/inventive you mean: let's bum rush the boss, chug potions and brute force through whatever defenses he has.

This, right here, is the apogee of creativity.

Player #1: Oh what does this one do? I dunno, let's bum rush him.
Player #2: But wait, there are strat...
Player #1:No, let's bum rush him, xp per minute man, what's the hold up, let's go. Chug, chug, chug!
Player #2: It's not working! The regen is too strong!
Player #1: Nuke harder!!!11one!

Turbine Dev #1: ... I dunno, I guess we'll sell more potions or something ...
Turbine Dev #2: Just let it go, man. Let it go.

I see your point. I really do. Surely you see the counter point of "Lets stand in a circle for 30 mins pounding on this boss" or "Lets spend 20 mins kiting this boss, while 1/2 our party beats on this boss". I appreciate the attempts you guys have made to make the game challenging. I don't know if increasing the amount of time needed to complete the quest by artificially inflating the hit points of a monster is the answer. The ~5% of the game population that could brute force the game before, can still brute force the game now.

[Seikojin]

And by creative/inventive you mean: let's bum rush the boss, chug potions and brute force through whatever defenses he has.

This, right here, is the apogee of creativity.

Player #1: Oh what does this one do? I dunno, let's bum rush him.
Player #2: But wait, there are strat...
Player #1:No, let's bum rush him, xp per minute man, what's the hold up, let's go. Chug, chug, chug!
Player #2: It's not working! The regen is too strong!
Player #1: Nuke harder!!!11one!

Turbine Dev #1: ... I dunno, I guess we'll sell more potions or something ...
Turbine Dev #2: Just let it go, man. Let it go.

LOL
It reminds me of old titan *sigh*
I see a lot of people in game who want quests done that way and complain when people try to strategize some debuffs or charms into the mix. Part of the reason my underwhelming fighter lived soo long and handled every situation soo well was because he could execute debuff strats and take advantage of them in just about every battle.

[Cyr]

And by creative/inventive you mean: let's bum rush the boss, chug potions and brute force through whatever defenses he has.

This, right here, is the apogee of creativity.

Yeah, adding a 'trick' to beating a boss does nothing more then relagate character stats to secondary considerations.

Abbot did this. Titan did this. How popular were these quests? Oh yeah they were two of the worst recieved quests in the history of the game which is really something considering the incredible demand there was for raids when those were released.

It really does not make fights more interesting when there are 'tricks'. What makes them more interesting is when there are phases. Tricks is just another way of saying we are going to make something up that you pretty much have to do one or if you are lucky two ways to succeed with any degree of regularity and that basically breaks any D&D emerision the game might still possess.

Look at titan...Oh it's an invinsible guy unless you knock him on his back like a turtle and then shoot him in the belly with a laser. Yeah that screams D&D to me. Then you make it worse by making him immune to all effects that would normally knock down a monster except the pillars. I'm sorry, but not even the insane batman villians would put their invinsible except for one little thing monster in a room with all those little things that you need to kill them.

[BruceTheHoon]

Yeah, adding a 'trick' to beating a boss does nothing more then relagate character stats to secondary considerations.

Abbot did this. Titan did this. How popular were these quests? Oh yeah they were two of the worst recieved quests in the history of the game which is really something considering the incredible demand there was for raids when those were released.

It really does not make fights more interesting when there are 'tricks'. What makes them more interesting is when there are phases. Tricks is just another way of saying we are going to make something up that you pretty much have to do one or if you are lucky two ways to succeed with any degree of regularity and that basically breaks any D&D emerision the game might still possess.

Look at titan...Oh it's an invinsible guy unless you knock him on his back like a turtle and then shoot him in the belly with a laser. Yeah that screams D&D to me. Then you make it worse by making him immune to all effects that would normally knock down a monster except the pillars. I'm sorry, but not even the insane batman villians would put their invinsible except for one little thing monster in a room with all those little things that you need to kill them.

I don't see it nearly as black and white as you do. Not every trick is bad. In example: Shroud - you have to split the leuenants before killing them. Partycrashers - full of them.
As I se it, it all depends on the trick:
- If it's hard and unforgiving like in Abbot, it's not going to be received nicely by the majority. It just puts too much stress on an individual to be enjoyable, making it an acquired taste at most.
- If a failure can be recovered without much frustration like in shroud, I don't believe people would really mind. Even with repetition, it does bring uniqueness to the quest.

I can only speak for myself and people that I regularly play with, but I love to use my wits and not just my dexterity when playing the game. I also believe, that this is very much in the spirit of D&D.

[Elixxer]

And by creative/inventive you mean: let's bum rush the boss, chug potions and brute force through whatever defenses he has.

This, right here, is the apogee of creativity.

Player #1: Oh what does this one do? I dunno, let's bum rush him.
Player #2: But wait, there are strat...
Player #1:No, let's bum rush him, xp per minute man, what's the hold up, let's go. Chug, chug, chug!
Player #2: It's not working! The regen is too strong!
Player #1: Nuke harder!!!11one!

Turbine Dev #1: ... I dunno, I guess we'll sell more potions or something ...
Turbine Dev #2: Just let it go, man. Let it go.

This cracked me up! I never heard of Bum rushing though. It sounds... Dirty.