Unarmed Lich build

[wax_on_wax_off]

That's good to hear. I haven't read every detail in the threads, but what is your proposed fighting strategy in tandem with use of sp? It seems that any cc to increase opportunities for SA is ruled out by the low int/dcs. Summons are helpful and independent of dc, of course. I tend to largely summon with scrolls though.

I guess there's always teamwork . . .

I find myself using single targeted ranged attacks to draw enemies to me, then finish them off with melee if they make it, so haven't much benefit from SA. If I get mobbed, I then use firewall or such AOE to fight within and finish off mobs. (Actually, this is what I do primarily for slayers, and I do a lot of AOE and melee with teams.)

Stunning Fist DC is the main source of sneak attack opportunities. With a 55 DC I'm pretty sure EN and EH will be close to 95% stun rate (after adjusting for offhand/doublestrike procs).

Otherwise can look at radiance wraps, erosive wraps (grtr stone prison), frozen tunic (freezing ice), sleet storm (this might work?), ottos irrestible dance, power word: stun/blind etc. Possible to combine -stat spells (waves of exhaustion) with -stat wraps (weakening of virulent poison). Bluff, diplomacy. Improved Deception.

Sleet Storm sounds like it could work with no save, no SR blindness?

[Myrdinn]

Stunning Fist DC is the main source of sneak attack opportunities. With a 55 DC I'm pretty sure EN and EH will be close to 95% stun rate (after adjusting for offhand/doublestrike procs).

Otherwise can look at radiance wraps, erosive wraps (grtr stone prison), frozen tunic (freezing ice), sleet storm (this might work?), ottos irrestible dance, power word: stun/blind etc. Possible to combine -stat spells (waves of exhaustion) with -stat wraps (weakening of virulent poison). Bluff, diplomacy. Improved Deception.

Sleet Storm sounds like it could work with no save, no SR blindness?

I just confirmed it, sleet storm work great with SA, gonna start using it a lot on my build (12wiz/6mnk/2ftr Helf with rogue dilettante), it also make the ennemy trip on occasion on Epic quest. Thanks a lot for the great idea wax.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I just confirmed it, sleet storm work great with SA, gonna start using it a lot on my build (12wiz/6mnk/2ftr Helf with rogue dilettante), it also make the ennemy trip on occasion on Epic quest. Thanks a lot for the great idea wax.

Glitterdust might work too.

[kanbeki]

Leveling an 18/2 helf variant of this and I have to ask, Is str base still worth it with changes to precision to hit etc?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Leveling an 18/2 helf variant of this and I have to ask, Is str base still worth it with changes to precision to hit etc?

Tough call, you'd have to ask an expert on the Shadowdancer PrE how valuable the int based abilities are, if they're good then it seems a reasonable idea to be int based but it's a really tough call either way.

[ddo.rsmo.pt]

Since someone dug up this great thread, I'll ask for an opinion.

I'm in the middle of TR train, with a HOrc that will be HOrcrobat in his final life. Loads of QStaves lying around.

Is this build doable with quarterstaff in mind (and keep also in mind this isn't a final life, just a "want to try something fun while doing Wizard life")? Still keeping hafling for guile gives me the sneak damage, but HOrc would benefit the quarterstaves.

The rest I believe would be more or less the same, except obviously taking out Stunning Fist for Stunning Blow (can't remember if this can be taken as Monk feat)

Thanks in advance.

[Myrdinn]

Glitterdust might work too.

true, but glitterdust have a save, which with only 12 lvl of wiz would not land a lot. so sleet storm is better in a lot of way, except when there is some fighter that aren't immune to slippery surface :P

[wax_on_wax_off]

Since someone dug up this great thread, I'll ask for an opinion.

I'm in the middle of TR train, with a HOrc that will be HOrcrobat in his final life. Loads of QStaves lying around.

Is this build doable with quarterstaff in mind (and keep also in mind this isn't a final life, just a "want to try something fun while doing Wizard life")? Still keeping hafling for guile gives me the sneak damage, but HOrc would benefit the quarterstaves.

The rest I believe would be more or less the same, except obviously taking out Stunning Fist for Stunning Blow (can't remember if this can be taken as Monk feat)

Thanks in advance.

For leveling something fun there's no reason why not as long as you realise it won't be optimal and plan to TR at 20.

Perhaps something like going straight for 12 wizard with maybe 1 or 2 levels splashed on th way for tensers and wraith form and then finish up however you like. 1 barbarian is nice for movement, 1 Druid is nice for damage, rogue is nice for sneak attack with sleet storm, evasion and traps, monk is okay, fighter is okay. Maybe at 18 be either 12 wizard/5 rogue/1 barb or 15 wizard/2 rogue/1 barb. That would go 1 rogue, 1 barbarian, 12 wizard and then the rest.

[kanbeki]

Pulling this thread back up for anyone considering an unarmed undead melee, many things are negated/canceled out by going into undead form, it doesn't matter which form. Shocking blow from charged gauntlets ceases to function when going into undead form, the double strike from alchemical handwraps is removed by going into undead form, going into undead form causes you to lose .5w to your wraps, Going into undead form will prevent entropic on grave wrappings from functioning until the wraps are swapped on and off. Yes I have bug reported all of this. Just putting this out there for anyone else considering a build of this type

[korsat]

Pulling this thread back up for anyone considering an unarmed undead melee, many things are negated/canceled out by going into undead form, it doesn't matter which form. Shocking blow from charged gauntlets ceases to function when going into undead form, the double strike from alchemical handwraps is removed by going into undead form, going into undead form causes you to lose .5w to your wraps, Going into undead form will prevent entropic on grave wrappings from functioning until the wraps are swapped on and off. Yes I have bug reported all of this. Just putting this out there for anyone else considering a build of this type

ty for reporting all these bugs, **** I was going to roll a 18wiz/1druid/1monk unarmed lich build but hell now i'm not so sure :|

[Haphazarduk]

Pulling this thread back up for anyone considering an unarmed undead melee, many things are negated/canceled out by going into undead form, it doesn't matter which form. Shocking blow from charged gauntlets ceases to function when going into undead form, the double strike from alchemical handwraps is removed by going into undead form, going into undead form causes you to lose .5w to your wraps, Going into undead form will prevent entropic on grave wrappings from functioning until the wraps are swapped on and off. Yes I have bug reported all of this. Just putting this out there for anyone else considering a build of this type

How does it play otherwise? How did it level? Is the melee meaningful or underwhelming? And perhaps most importantly, Tenser's still works with undead form ok right?

Hap

[kanbeki]

How does it play otherwise? How did it level? Is the melee meaningful or underwhelming? And perhaps most importantly, Tenser's still works with undead form ok right?

Hap

I didn't use the build in the OP I am running 18/2monk Helf with rog dil. Leveling i played as a nuking wizard with a pale lavander fw and fb spam, once i got to 14 (12wiz/2monk) and got wraith I began to melee, with a pair of stonedust wraps and wis in the high 20s I was able to stun somewhat reliably. Tensers works fine I am now at 23 with GMOF capped running sun stance for the extra w seeing about 100 damage a hit boosted on a stunned mob and no outside buffs, low 200s on a crit, working my way toward fury at the moment to increase my stunned damage

[Haphazarduk]

One final question - is the inflict wounds ability from Lich working? Do you get a full cause light with necro spell power boost or a much lower amount as I've seen suggested elsewhere...

Cheers

Hap

[kanbeki]

One final question - is the inflict wounds ability from Lich working? Do you get a full cause light with necro spell power boost or a much lower amount as I've seen suggested elsewhere...

Cheers

Hap

I don't pay too much attention to it as I have damage type icons off, it's just another die of damage to me

[savingsoul]

I've been playing a warforged build that is very similar to the OP concept. 1M/1Rog/18W str based pale master. It's only at level 17 at the moment though.

I have to say that, especially if you plan on soloing, the wf version is much better than the halfling anywhere you encounter casters/beholders that can debuff you. You can switch to non-undead (aka, normal) form and heal yourself with reconstruct and repair critical; the reconstruct speed boost is nice to have as well.

I soloed tempest spine on elite with ship buffs pretty easily, but can only solo normal tempest spine w/o ship buffs because the casters debuff you. I used a strategy of switching between undead and normal form, staying mostly in normal form when I knew I would likely be debuffed, and it worked perfectly. I switched to wraith form for fire and ice, the rust monsters, and for the end fight since sorjak doesn't debuff you. This switching strategy wouldn't be possible with the halfling version, and my bet is that a high level halfling pale master could not solo elite or even normal tempest very easily.

I'm trying out a halfling version now as well, but I might go int based on that one. I won't likely solo with it, it probably will be fine in parties. If you're with a guildie or good friend who is a cleric/fvs, you can let them know you will be in normal form when there are beholders or debuffing casters around, and they can heal you accordingly.

The thing is, the wf version wins out here, because not only can you simply tell the healer that you won't be in undead form, so they can heal you, but you can self heal as well using repair spells.

One other tidbit: the halfling must start out with lower strength than the warforged, so the wf is better for the str version.

So this is my long-winded way of saying the wf version is generally better than the halfling.

[savingsoul]

On my warforged pale master 1M/1Rog/18W, I decided to swap one of my feats for stunning *blow* rather than try to achieve high dc's on a stunning *fist*. He's already strength based anyway, so this makes sense. Even though I didn't think this through beforehand, the warforged tactics enhancements are perfect is this respect. I have tactics III atm. My stunning blows do not proc as often as stunning fist does on my clonk, but tactics enhancements also apply to trip and sunder, so I have more tries for some tactic to work. Anyway, warforged start out with low wisdom, so it would be costly to try to improve wisdom for higher stunning fist.

In addition to the benefits mentioned in my previous post on this thread (see above), this appears to be another plus for warforged strength based pale master over and against halfling or half-elf.

However, I'm still wondering what the cost/benefit is of trying to optimize stunning blow rather than stunning fist on a strength based pale master w/ monk splash. Anyone tried both variations?