Uselessness of GMs? Is there a better way?

[Ookami007]

What EXACTLY is the point of the ticket system?

I have submitted a number of tickets for game bugs that SERIOUSLY affected my... from losing all enchantments on my greensteel to just tonight I bought 500+ greater good essences on the auction house.... I received them in the mail and they said they went into my ingredients bag.... but they simply disappeared.

This wasn't just one order... but MULTIPLE orders.

Gone....

The GM says there is nothing he can do and per policy... blah... blah...

1) Why is your policy ANTI-CUSTOMER? You'd think... with all the competition you'd want to RETAIN customers.... so why be antagonistic towards customers?

Whatever your answer is.... it's wrong. I can tell you that now. The old saying "The customer is always right"... it was a truism then... it is now.

Sure, you might have some few who game the system, but your retention and good will towards the rest would earn you major kudos.

2) Aren't there logs that can be looked at to see what happened to items? If not, why not? I work in a huge hospital (10000+ employees). We have to track EVERYTHING that happens to each medical record... everytime it's looked at, modified, added to, etc. Thousands upon thousands of people touching thousands of records a day.... and we can keep track of that.

Why can't you keep track of simply things like items? What happened to them? Those greater good essences just didn't disappear.... they did SOMETHING. Why isn't it tracked and why don't GM's have access to that information?

Seriously... what is the point of having GM's when they can't really DO anything?

Unless it's something extremely simple, most players don't bother because they know the GM's are so impotent, it's not worth the time.

Is that really how you want to run your business, with your customers knowing that your support is so pathetic, that they just don't bother?

I know it's a gaming company, but still... don't you guys have ANY pride in your company?

I can't imagine giving my customers (doctors and nurses) the level of customer service that I received tonight and expecting to have a job in the morning.

Consider me a REALLY, REALLY unhappy customer.

Not that you care. You have proven time and time again to me and others than customer service is not important to you.

[rjbutchko]

Just had a similar issue, Jon. I was in Mabar, had just made a lvl 8 cloak and had between 4 and 5k motes. Then there was a HUGE lag spike. The only way out was to restart my client. No biggie, happens a lot in this game. When I re logged I was in Meridia with no cloak and no motes. I put in a ticket and was told that if something happens to my stuff when the server hiccups there is nothing that can (or is it will?) be done.

Its all make believe stuff and I really shouldn't be upset about it, but I did just waste an entire days worth of play time.

[Ookami007]

It's not the make believe stuff... it's my time. The time and effort it took me to get the money to buy that stuff.

When I feel my time is wasted, then the game ceases to be fun.

When it ceases to be fun, it ceases to be played. They lose customers.

I get the feeling.... they just don't care. It's all a numbers game. For every irrate customer they lose, they gain 1 or 2 more suckers.

[Teraz]

Losing items in bags is a known issue...try opening all your bags and unclicking the auto collect...then hit the collect button.

[MRH]

Man that sucks to hear ..

Is the auto gather bug still around?

Sure you may know.... but have you toggled the auto gather.

Hopefully your items show up in your bag after a toggle.

[rjbutchko]

It's not the make believe stuff... it's my time. The time and effort it took me to get the money to buy that stuff.

When I feel my time is wasted, then the game ceases to be fun.

I agree totally. I was okay when it happened to me, then really ticked when the GM got back to me with nothing. Not because of the items, but because of the time I wasted.

[strider-1]

Removed 12 auctions or so from mailbox and server kicks me on reload I am in dif loc and mail gone so 12k plat gone. In game devs says not a known bug nothing they can do so please report a bug.

bah I am going back to wow it maybe boring but I know what service I get there does not suck

[Nosferatu_Man]

I know exactly what you mean. Sent a ticket several times only to be completely ignored by various GMs. Each time the same response: the issue can't be resolved with the information provided, not on the bug list, submit a bug report.

Where to start...

When I send a ticket or submit a bug report, I always give full information, that is, everything I've observed. What happened, where, how, etc. So if they can't solve a problem with the data I give, logic would suggest they can't solve it at all.

Issue not on the bug list? Well hell, if it was on the bug list (known issues), I wouldn't bother submitting it!

Bug reports submitted every time, but I doubt they'll get any attention.

The conclusion is simple: they don't bother doing anything at all when a premium player sends in a ticket (I know my VIP friend at least received a non-default reply). Mayhap they don't even read what you send, just click on their "I'm too lazy to do anything" button. Sad but true. DDO is a great game, but their in-game customer support (at least the part concerning technical issues) is below poor. And I'm not the only one who thinks that, my guildies and friends from the game agree. Do I think it's gonna change? No. Just wanted to show Ookami007 my support, because the first post in this thread is very, very correct.

[Stermlin]

Unless it's something extremely simple, most players don't bother because they know the GM's are so impotent, it's not worth the time.

Is that really how you want to run your business, with your customers knowing that your support is so pathetic, that they just don't bother?

This.

I have had a few problems that I have not even bothered wasting time in an attempt to resolve just because of the many, many horror stories concerning in game support.

[Elixxer]

It's sad, but true.

[Cormath]

Ditto and signed. Most of us have some negitive response from the support system (mine was a tier 3 greensteel disappering after it was created instead of going into inventory). Most dont believe it will change (myself included). My sympathy at the problem but it is the game we still choose to play...

[BOgre]

agree 100%. What's even more bothersome and disheartening, is that with all the new open communication going on between us and the dev/QA team, and having asked about in-game support many times, that we NEVER get any kind of answer on the issue. So we KNOW they've read these posts. We KNOW they come here to talk to us and give us what answers they can. And we KNOW they're intentionally silent on the GM issue... That adds up to: "Yup, the in-game support is bad, but we can't or won't do anything about it, and we have no permission to provide any feedback on the issue." Harsh.
I guess we have to keep reporting in-game support issues here on the forums for now. The more visible the problem is, the more likely it may someday get some attention.

[jmurdock]

Here's my 2 cents then. I reported an invisible wall in the fire caves in tbc. The GM asked me was i still stuck. I replied that i had found a way around it and retelled this guy 2 more times with some more details on this 'wall'. Waited another 30 minutes for him to come back to me with something like even a goodbye. Finally real life called i had to quit game. Looked at ticket and it said closed cause i hadn't replied. That I hadn't replied! He's (or she's) the one who didn't reply. Today I need help in rackhams trial cause my toon wouldn't jump between ladders. Toon was climbing down and not jumping towards the next ladder. Seemed like ladder bug or something. Made a ticket and they said they wouldn't give specific information in the game. I wasn't asking for specific information to complete the quest. I've done that quest a dozen times before on various toons. NEVER had a problem until recently. It happened to be the same gm who DIDN'T respond to me about the fire caves.

[JOTMON]

Over the years I have noticed a big decine in the competancy of the GM's

When I first started this game the GM's responded quickly were intelligent conversant and knowledgeable about various issues and were able to ask meaningful questions to understand the issue or problem being persented.

They were able to impliment corrective action in cases where it was deemed apporpriate.
- in one case part 4 to part5 of shroud everyone spawned in dead but did not rez in part 5.
the GM spawned a rez shrine so we could raise ourselves get the 4 mobs under control and finish the quest.

This is the type of in game help I am expecting.
I dont want them to kill the end boss and insta-win the game for me..
I want to be put back to the position i should have been in before the non-WAI mishap ocurred.

On another occasion the exact bug event happened.
The GM in question autoclosed the ticket comment something to the effect of "we are not able to spawn or..blah blah.... submit a bug report, silver flame.... autoclose... without even actually conversing with me. 1 hour and 3 tickets later the GM finally responded and would still not do anything saying.. it was a known bug submit a ticket and restart the quest.

This is the aggrevating disrespectful action that I absolutely never want to see from any support person.

Curently the GM's come across as part time college call center lackeys sitting in some back room with a handful of cuecards listening to their ipod's ignoring requests for help and autoclosing tickets. They appeared to be neutered of any ablility to do any real corrective actions.

As a community of paying customers we expect real customer support and to be treated as customers.
The way I see it it is their job to talk to me directly find out what my issue is and take action accordingly.
Not every answer will be what I want to hear, but to autoclose with the canned response, even multiple times without a proper communication is unacceptable.

They are our 911 line to help. Granted a lot of calls come in that are asinine and a waste of time, but it is their job to deal with that and to treat every call like it is a real situation.

It is a pretty basic component, but I may be incorrect in assuming accumulated tickets are reviewed by a Quality Control and Development team to identify ongoing and repetative issues and come up with efforts to eliminate the most recurrant ones. After ticket close by GM I would like to see a "how was my GM" checklist attached to each ticket. was the GM polite, was the situation rectified,.. ratings....

Finally...
-Employ GM's that are capable and competent and have actually played the game.
-Empower the GM's to rectify a situation appropriately.
-Do not autoclose tickets with no follow up.
-Answer every ticket quickly even if it is to let you know you are in a que for a 30 minute wait time.
-Add sections within the ticket to add comments, reference links, etc...
-auto add your player information, location, quest information and a link to submit a bug ticket.

[JOTMON]

Ditto and signed. Most of us have some negitive response from the support system (mine was a tier 3 greensteel disappering after it was created instead of going into inventory). Most dont believe it will change (myself included). My sympathy at the problem but it is the game we still choose to play...

Ugh, had that happen to me 2 years ago a cleansed cloak at second tier was adding tier3 for min2.
GM told me he could see the parts going in and my log showing the item had been made and I should try to to logout and log back in.. autoclosed ticket when I did. still no GS.
2nd GM( couldnt get the first one back for some reason) said I dont see anything in your log...we have no way of knowing you actually tried to do this and we are not able to spawn..submit a bug report.
my response.. but the first GM ..autoclose.. the GM you are trying to... is no longer available....
fumed for a bit then.. Finally submitted the bug report.. got the auto thanks for the bug report... never heard a word since...2 years and counting(stopped holding my breath)... crafted a new cloak 4 months later.

Where is the Bug report followup, the bug report# is pretty much useless, no on-line tracking, no status.
Gives me the impression that bug reports go to a giant email trashcan with autodelete and incinerated by silver flames.

[Shadow7375]

Over the years I have noticed a big decine in the competancy of the GM's

When I first started this game the GM's responded quickly were intelligent conversant and knowledgeable about various issues and were able to ask meaningful questions to understand the issue or problem being persented.

They were able to impliment corrective action in cases where it was deemed apporpriate.
- in one case part 4 to part5 of shroud everyone spawned in dead but did not rez in part 5.
the GM spawned a rez shrine so we could raise ourselves get the 4 mobs under control and finish the quest.

This is the type of in game help I am expecting.
I dont want them to kill the end boss and insta-win the game for me..
I want to be put back to the position i should have been in before the non-WAI mishap ocurred.

On another occasion the exact bug event happened.
The GM in question autoclosed the ticket comment something to the effect of "we are not able to spawn or..blah blah.... submit a bug report, silver flame.... autoclose... without even actually conversing with me. 1 hour and 3 tickets later the GM finally responded and would still not do anything saying.. it was a known bug submit a ticket and restart the quest.

This is the aggrevating disrespectful action that I absolutely never want to see from any support person.

Curently the GM's come across as part time college call center lackeys sitting in some back room with a handful of cuecards listening to their ipod's ignoring requests for help and autoclosing tickets. They appeared to be neutered of any ablility to do any real corrective actions.

As a community of paying customers we expect real customer support and to be treated as customers.
The way I see it it is their job to talk to me directly find out what my issue is and take action accordingly.
Not every answer will be what I want to hear, but to autoclose with the canned response, even multiple times without a proper communication is unacceptable.

They are our 911 line to help. Granted a lot of calls come in that are asinine and a waste of time, but it is their job to deal with that and to treat every call like it is a real situation.

It is a pretty basic component, but I may be incorrect in assuming accumulated tickets are reviewed by a Quality Control and Development team to identify ongoing and repetative issues and come up with efforts to eliminate the most recurrant ones. After ticket close by GM I would like to see a "how was my GM" checklist attached to each ticket. was the GM polite, was the situation rectified,.. ratings....

Finally...
-Employ GM's that are capable and competent and have actually played the game.
-Empower the GM's to rectify a situation appropriately.
-Do not autoclose tickets with no follow up.
-Answer every ticket quickly even if it is to let you know you are in a que for a 30 minute wait time.
-Add sections within the ticket to add comments, reference links, etc...
-auto add your player information, location, quest information and a link to submit a bug ticket.

Great post. Read my mind, and probably the ones of others too ...

Every time i needed assistance / help in the past i got a auto-reply. Not happy.

[Captain_Wizbang]

I had this happen twice last week.

Both times, the GM did something, and the items were there when he/ she was done.

One GM also offered some info, that hotbars had an icon issue, and were causing people to think items were missing.

Sorry this isnt your outcome. But I'd thought Id share my recent personal experience.

[Llewndyn]

But I recently got help. Running Catacombs on elite with a full group, in the dungeon where you have to go up the tower, couple of skeletons don't spawn so we can't go any further. Get a GM who resets it and even waits for us to get buffed and ready before he\she\Flower does. Very good resolution there. I think it might be more along the lines of who you get or how annoyed your ticket is. I know when I put in a ticket at the beginning of the crafting about not being able to make handwraps I put some rather.....terse things in there, and the response was less than stellar. Not saying you did that, and I have been told to eat crow enough times, but sometimes they surprise you... *shrug*

[Falco_Easts]

Whatever your answer is.... it's wrong. I can tell you that now. The old saying "The customer is always right"... it was a truism then... it is now.

No it's not. I used to work in customer service and times have changed. You want to complain about lack of customer service, thank the people that rorted the system. 50 years ago I would say 80-90% of customers were honest. Now I would say only 50-60% of complaints are truly honest and not trying to ripoff the company.

Look at the threads about the latest expl.. ah, problem that hit. How many posters in those threads are saying it's Turbines fault for allowing it to happen. There a quite a few. The same sort of mentality woudl follow through to it's OK to exploit the GM's because they should have known better. I think the GM's have been told to be careful what they do to prevent people exploiting the system and the GM's help.

Look at the example above with the ladders. I daresay some people have put in bug reports about not being able to do it. Then you get a legit person who can do it but is unable and thanks to the previous people trying to get the GM's to do it for them, they are unable to help.

In the interest of customer relations, I think Turbine should release guidelines on what the GM's will and will not assist with.

i.e.

Will not
Help players find Arlos. He is in there, trust me.
Report back on harrasment tickets. Turbine's policy is not to talk about punishment of others.
Will not assist in quest issues for completion of quest or optionals.
Flag you for the bloody crypt, you will need to run all for prequests again.
etc...

[donfilibuster]

The GM does not have information about bugs, it should be clear from years of people complaining they don't help with bugs.
A GM can help you with information, he can tell if it is a bug or not, despite being unhelpful.
However, then you can then go check the (player) forums to see if there's mention of the bug or some other info.

It can be very well that if there's a workaround or fix, or you are just missing something then it'd be posted somewhere.
On the live servers if you find a problem chances are someone somewhere already knows something about it.
First thing when you get stuck is not to fret but ask in /advice, someone would be in the area doing the same quest.

If it looks like a glitch you may ask the GM, for advice or to be pointed to the forums.
In either case you are not left in the dark, which doesn't solve your problem but saves you the headache.

Examples of things that a GM can help you:
If a quest mob is stuck, such as when the cube walked into a wall in the fens quest.
If a quest item is stuck, such as when the staff in acute delirium turned up below the ship's deck floor.
If a door glitches but isn't part of objectives, such as when the door in a tavern went missing, this one was very funny.
If you see something strange, such as a player giving out all their things, because it might be a hacker.
To confirm if an item you had is missing, such as the necropolis trinket, which is easy to confuse with other gems or necklaces.

Examples of things that a GM won't help you:
If there's an actual bug with quest objectives, often happening in new quests when things are done out of order.
If you get stuck in a stuck spot, you are told to use /stuck but this may make you fail the quest or start again.
If a door glitches but is part of the quest, such as with some gates in the subterranean, where the mobs that activate it can go missing.
If you lose items because of a lag-based glitch, because those are bugs and bugs go through the bug queue.

There's also those things a new player can ask a GM but naturally one can't ask about what you don't know.
For example, there was a player that didn't know there was a buy back button on vendors.
This was in the manual, and the manual is nowhere to be seen... except in the installation folder in your computer.
(which is also outdated, no surprise here)

As for the bugs, as unfortunate and complicate the bug queue can be, the policy (afaik) when you encounter a bug is to
a) do the quest again or b) wait till it gets fixed in a future update
(provided it gets reported via ticket *and* promoted via forums).
The terms and conditions also say items are non-refundable, etc.

Likewise the store purchases are final, altough if these glitch you have the extra support from account support.
They do keep logs and respond faster, just make sure you use the correct form support and give the details.