Here is an idea. I am tired of ddowiki not having any form of comments available to them so, we players can post hints, tips and guidance on items, mats, quests and raids.
However I see the compendium actaully have 'Post comments' available and I have posted few things in there.
The difference between ddowiki and the compendium is though that the compendium does not contain nearly as much as ddowiki does.
How about melting both together and make comments available so it will become an even better ressource to us all instead of having people asking the same questions over and over again ingame & forums ? I love DDO as a game and everything in it, but seirously - there's so many mats and items that more than once I and others more experienced players have deleted important stuff cause we simply did not know what it was for.
If a melt is not possible, then how bout making comments available to ddowiki ? I dont know if that is possible either but then let's start use the compendium and make an effort updating that and provide hints & tips benefitting us all.
I am tired of spending hours trying to figure out how to get a pair of boots only because we the players cannot post a comment and I know, I am not the only one. I try to update ddowiki as well with my input to make it easier for others in furture, but it's stupid to click on ring of spell storing and then only get the description and a picture of it. Why not note where it drops, how to upgrade it, what mats you need to upgrade and where those mats drops ? seriously - in order to get the knowledge of all that, you have to look through 10-20 pages on ddowiki, which is plain stupid imo. Try look up Boots of Anchoring on ddowiki and come back with how long time it took you to figure out how to get them and they are the easy ones.
Let's make it better and easier to find the info needed and give us more time to play and have fun.
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Thread: Compendium vs. DDOWiki
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10-20-2011, 10:38 AM #1Community Member
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Compendium vs. DDOWiki
Last edited by Lewendriel; 10-20-2011 at 10:48 AM.
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10-20-2011, 11:17 AM #2Community Member
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DDOWiki is a Wiki, and therefore can be modified by anyone, including you. If there's information you want to add, add it! The wiki has no rules against adding hints, tips, or guidance. I don't know why you think you can't add what you want to add. Why are comments better than incorporating what you want into the article text?
And your examples confuse me.
Boots of Anchoring: I went to ddowiki.com, searched for Boots of Anchoring, and got to http://ddowiki.com/page/Boots_of_Anchoring, which seems to include all the relevant info about them. What's the problem?
Ring of Spell Storing: Searching, I come to http://ddowiki.com/page/Ring_of_Spell_Storing, which includes the text "Sands of Menechtarun, Undead Area: General Tanankh's chest (Rare Encounter)", which includes hyperlinks to info about the General, and the Sands, through which I can easily find a map of the Sands, and locate where the chest appears.
As for merging the Wiki and the Compendium, DDO Wiki is a fully use-created site. It's entirely separate from the Compendium, and outside Turbine's control. I would prefer to keep it that way. I've seen Turbine's moderation in action on the Compendium, and I have no desire to see it applied to the Wiki. The Compendium also has ridiculously awful search capabilities.
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10-20-2011, 11:21 AM #3The Hatchery
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Just edit the wiki to add the information you have.
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10-20-2011, 11:39 AM #4Community Member
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Google is your friend
As a wiki, everything is user-generated, so that's one problem solved. Additionally, it appears you are experiencing some search-related challenges. Here's how you resolve that:
1) Open your browser to www.google.com
2) In the box, type "ddowiki" followed by your search terms
3) 99% of the time, the first link is the page you want. The other 1% of the time, it's the 2nd or 3rd link.
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10-20-2011, 11:43 AM #5Founder
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http://ddowiki.com/page/Boots_of_Anchoring
Originally Posted by Lewendriel
I typed "w boots anchoring" into my firefox url, after defining w as a shortcut for the wiki's search box. It took about 5 seconds to find the boots.
Relevant info from those 5 seconds:
"location: Amrath, Crafted by Liella d'Orien"
Find 4 ingredients from the Devil Battlefield quests, they are as follows:
[insert neat table with detailed info of what drops where]
[insert useful hyperlinks to the battlefiend so one knows where each quest is]
...so I fail to see the problem.
Whatever other info you think would be useful, go ahead and add it.Last edited by Solmage; 10-20-2011 at 11:49 AM.
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10-20-2011, 12:22 PM #6Community Member
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As for http://ddowiki.com/page/Ring_of_Spell_Storing
How do I upgrade it ?
Nowhere does it say what's needed except
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Crafting
which is fantastic cause it really tells me where the sroll, shard and seal for the ring drops /ironi off
a search on ddowiki for the shard for example as I dont know the exact name of it gives
http://ddowiki.com/page/Special:Sear...rd+of+the+epic
ddowiki.com/page/Special:Search?fulltext=Search&search=shard+of+the +spell
http://ddowiki.com/page/Special:Sear...+ring+of+spell
Eventually I found a thread in the forums here and asked and someone answered.
A comment on the picture of the ring of what you need, where you get it would be nice. Nowhere in ddowiki does it say anything about where to find those. That's my point.
Comments are easier to read through than clicking 7 links to get to info needed. Take wowhead.com - that's is **** easy to find info you need.
As for the boots of anchoring - didnt I write 'and those are the easy ones ?' -- wait - oh yes I did.
As for adding notes myself - didnt I wrote that I do that - oh wait! -- oh yes I did.
I guess suggestions to improvements apparently aint that popular, considering the answers so far. So I will do what the rest of us does -asks the same stupid questions over and over and over again and waste hours in finding info needed.
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10-20-2011, 12:46 PM #7Community Member
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Please excuse me, but I think what the reponses so far have indicated is that suggestions to improvements are irrelevant when you have the power to improve it right now. ddowiki.com is all you need. If a certain page contains less information than you think it should, you may add it. Or are you saying that someone else needs to modify each page in the way that you like, even though you can do it just as easily? Originally Posted by Lewendriel
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10-20-2011, 12:52 PM #8Community Member
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Yeah, the wiki was lacking a bit of info you wanted (info which you did not ask for in the OP). What's your point? Originally Posted by Lewendriel
Your attitude is also puzzling, and not conducive to a useful discussion.
Great, now why not add that info to http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Ring_of_Spell_Storing?Eventually I found a thread in the forums here and asked and someone answered.
The Wiki is never going to have every bit of info you want, whether there's a comment system or not. I'll also point out that you found your answer on the Forums, not in the Compendium. The reason you found it there is because the forums have vastly more traffic, activity, and "contributers" than the Wiki, not because it is comment-based.
I don't see how that's even remotely true. I'd take a well-written, well-organized article over a stream of comments any day.A comment on the picture of the ring of what you need, where you get it would be nice. Nowhere in ddowiki does it say anything about where to find those. That's my point.
Comments are easier to read through than clicking 7 links to get to info needed.
The only problem is the lack of the info you wanted. So add it. Whether it's added as a comment, or as part of the article, why do you think the comment is better?
So then how does it support your point? The info on Boots is trivial to find. If you want to make a case for how the DDO Wiki is lacking, and should have a comment system, shouldn't you point out something that's actually a problem, that would benefit from a comment system?As for the boots of anchoring - didnt I write 'and those are the easy ones ?' -- wait - oh yes I did.
You said it took 10-20 pages to find the info you wanted. I don't see how. The page itself has everything you need.
Yes, but you seem to think that adding notes yourself is somehow not enough. Why? What problem is there that you think needs to be solved? And how would a comment system fix it, where the existing capabilities can not? I'm not clear on any of that.As for adding notes myself - didnt I wrote that I do that - oh wait! -- oh yes I did.
Your suggestion lacks sound justification. I don't see how either of the cases you presented are remotely compelling. The ring only proves that sometimes all the info you want isn't on the Wiki. Well, the solution is to add the info. Not overhaul it by combining it with the comendium, or adding a superfluous comment system, or whatever.I guess suggestions to improvements apparently aint that popular, considering the answers so far. So I will do what the rest of us does -asks the same stupid questions over and over and over again and waste hours in finding info needed.
You're conflating a rejection of your proposal and the arguments you've presented with a lack of desire for improvement. I'd love to hear good ideas, supported by good arguments, for improving the wiki. Unfortunately, you have not supplied that.
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10-20-2011, 12:52 PM #9Community Member
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I think the problem you are facing is that merging the two would be a fairly complicated and time consuming task. Especially considering it involves the compendium which is a turbine resource, the merging of two community created resources would be much simpler even if its still a lot of work on the technical side (depending on database format etc.). Originally Posted by Lewendriel
It's not really a feasible suggestion.
Now, editing the wiki might require some research into formatting and syntax but its not that much more complicated then posting comments.
In the end a wiki presents a much nicer format compared to comments, because if done properly it will follow the same structure for every item/quest/etc.
Epic seals/shards is something i have had issues with a few times myself. I will readily admit that i was too lazy to add the information to the wiki when i found it (but i have contributed on some other articles in the past).Devourer ate my characters.
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10-21-2011, 12:31 AM #10Community Member
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Originally Posted by Lewendriel
Firstly: This isn't WoW by Blizzard but the ddowiki works essentially the same as wowhead.
Secondly: If you would like to add info to ddowiki, you should consider reading the instructions located on the wiki, and basically those instructions are...................Sign up and sign in...... Same as you have to do for the DDo forums and compendium.
Thirdly, if you are trying to search an item on the wiki, you really need to know the EXACT item/quest name/ class/ enhancement/ whatever and spell it correctly to get search results.
Fourthly: It is not uncommon to have to do other searches in other places to have to get the RIGHT name of the <noun here> you are attempting to search on the Wiki.
And my fifth and final point: Using the wiki is like using any new site you ever go to in that you have to learn the navigation of the site to be effective at it. I guarantee you the compendium is less than 1/2 as useful as the DDOWiki, hands down. You get no nice links to quest maps detailing where all trap boxes/secret doors/traps/quest items etc. etc on the compendium unless there is a link in the comments sending you TO the wiki. And that is just a start of what you get from the wiki you will not get from the compendium.
Oh one last thing: I hope Turbine never screws with the Wiki in any shape or form. it will only wind up 1/2 as useful as it is now to be equal to the compendium.Last edited by umeannothing; 10-21-2011 at 12:39 AM.
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10-20-2011, 12:49 PM #11Community Member
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Like the other said, the wiki is completely user generated. Originally Posted by Lewendriel
See something missing?
Go do something constructive like adding in the missing information, instead of coming to the forums and whining about it.
When God gives you lemons, find a new God.
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10-20-2011, 12:47 PM #12Community Member
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This is copy pasted from the page you linked:
Location Sands of Menechtarun, Undead Area: General Tanankh's chest (Rare Encounter)
That is the exaclty where the Ring Of Spell Storing comes from.
There is also a link on how to make the Epic version right on that page.
There is a link to a map of the desert with General Tanankh location clearly marked on it.
Everything you are asking about is right on this page http://ddowiki.com/page/Ring_of_Spell_Storing
I am not exactly certain you are conveying your question correctly...
Also its not that your suggestion isn't popular it just seems to most of us that what you are aking for is already there. Again I am not exactly certain you are conveying your question / issue correctly or I am not understanding it anyway.
With two clicks from the main Ring of Spell Storing page i was able to find this:
Sands of Menechtarun explorer area items
◦Shards for all of these items drop in the epic raid, Zawabi's Revenge and also in the Epic Chest of Epic Against the Demon Queen. It's very rare to get one in the raid, and uncommon to get one in ADQ1 - and rarer still to get the one you want.
◦Seals drop with a low drop rate in the side chests of epic Against the Demon Queen and I believe they also drop in some or all chests in Wiz-King, Offering of Blood and Chains of Flame at a very low drop rate.
◦Scrolls for these items drop on the corpse of any dead monster in epic Demon Sands questsLast edited by Avidus; 10-20-2011 at 12:49 PM.
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10-20-2011, 01:11 PM #13Hero
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There is a small group that moderates and keeps the DDOWIKI accurate (Borrower and crew)
They do an excellent job of maintaining the wiki and organizing it in away that is meaningful and usefull.
The Compendium... not so much....
The DDO Compendium shoud add links to the Wiki to get usefull information.Argo: Degenerate Matter - 200
Jotmon (HC 34/45 , RC 42/42 , IC 12/21 , EC 51/51 , RP 116/158)
Jotlock (HC 38/45 , RC 25/42 , IC 15/21 , EC 51/51 , RP 75/158)
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10-20-2011, 01:03 PM #14Community Member
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Also, I don't just think that a comment system wouldn't be worthwhile, I think it would be actually harmful to the Wiki. I think it was a mistake to put one on the Compendium.
The reason is moderation. When someone posts a comment, they perceive it as an expression of free speech. Removing it generally requires very good reason, or it causes more problems. So comments that are false, misleading, or simply off-topic are likely to remain, clogging up the article, and drowning out the good info. Moderation of comments is a task that must be relegated to people entrusted with that responsibility, and not something that can easily rely on peers.
A wiki is about producing a collaboratively written and edited encyclopedia. When you contribute, you're one voice among many working towards the same content. If someone puts false info in, it can be removed by their peers. Overtime, the article trends towards a consensus. Admins and mods are only needed in rare cases, not every time false info needs to be removed.
Essentially, a Wiki, and Forums, are very different means of producing content. I don't think it's good to paste them together.
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10-20-2011, 05:49 PM #15Community Member
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Ok I admit I seem to not be able to express my suggestion correctly in this. I may not be the best researcher in this world and I am not saying that I would like all to be easy.
My point in the suggestion is: Instead of having two databases that have two good functions why not try to merge them or make one of the good things available in the other ?
In this case the comment possibility from the Compendium and the amount of knowledge lying in DDOWiki. I have added knowlegde to a few ddowikis and will continue to do so. But my point is - instead of having to edit a fully nice layout site everytime you have some input - it would be alot easier to have a comment system.
It's not rocket science. Take a look at
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Quest:Tower_of_Despair
You have a raid - but the description is not good at all but you can read what needs to be done to get flagged and how to get the boots, cause somene took the time to write a comment.
Now take a look at
http://ddowiki.com/page/Tower_of_Despair
DDOwiki if far more descriptive about the fights, hints & tips and video walkthroughs which is great, but how do you get flagged, get the boots ect ? There's links, yes, but takes 7 clicks to get all details needed.
Having both in one and same article saves everybody time and is easier for everybody. I know it's a huge job and maybe not possible to actually merge them and quite frankly I dont know if there even is a comment possibilty in wiki setup - maybe there isnt. If that's the case, well nothing to do about it and case closed.
I will continue to add to the compendium and ddowiki whenever I find a missing piece.
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10-20-2011, 10:22 PM #16Community Member
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Originally Posted by Lewendriel
all of those comments you wrote for the compendium? Well all that info was covered by clicking one link on the wiki page.
The thing is, No one uses the compendium besides new players because, well, they know it rarely contains any useful information. DDO wiki on the otherhand is chock full of information. And as soon as the new players figure that out, they never use it again except for some very basic information.
Personally I dont think that having every little bit of information that can be gleaned from the game should be served up n a silber platter. If someone wants information from the wiki, its probably a good thing that they might have to go thru a few pages to find what they are looking for. it opens them up to additional information regarding the game they might have otherwise never been exposed to.
The wiki itself has a forum where users can post questions. The can act as a discussion board. In keeping the comments separated from the pages, it provides for a much neater, simpler presentation of information. Thus a comments section on each and every wiki page is not needed (nor wanted).
_boo-tai jung-tzahng-duh
<*cough*B.S.*cough*> Originally Posted by Cordovan
Originally Posted by SqueakofDoom
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10-21-2011, 06:19 AM #17The Hatchery
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One click under heading "flagging" tells you what you need to be flagged. Originally Posted by Lewendriel
One click under heading Tips and Misc tells you how to get boots.
Feel free to add what information you feel is lacking. The wiki depends on people taking the time to enter informationn. Originally Posted by Lewendriel
Personally I would rather have a cpherent article than a stream of comments to search through.DDO: If a problem cannot be solved by the application of DPS, you're not applying enough.
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10-20-2011, 08:43 PM #18Community Member
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Problem with the compendium:
HEAVILY MODERATED.
You are NOT free to discuss what you want there, not to even add helpful info.
I added most of the common bugs that affect frenzy berskerer to the berserker enhnacement page, this is VERY useful info because the official description is incredibly wrong, and it has many bugs players should know about.
Moderators deleted the information.
That doesn't happen on the player wiki. We have moderators (sysops) but they don't remove useful information ever. If they do, we discuss it and come up with the most agreeable solution, its community driven.
RE: Comments.
The wiki 100% supports comments. Just not in the same ugly format.
How to add a comment to a page:
Naviate to any page.
Click Discussion on the top next to page.
You can then just type in whatever your comment is and hit submit, dont even have to log in.... Preferably you do follow wikiquette tho and do it more like this:
Hit the + button, this will give you a subject line to fill.
Type your comment below in the main bow.
Type in four tildes: ~~~~ - this will add your sig/timestamp. Or ip address if not logged. Or press the signature button on the toolbar to fill that automatically.
If there are already comments there.. Follow the template.
Generally we use the {{Post|0|~~~|
msg here
}}
template, as it looks nice and keeps things clean.. So use that whenever possible, but just typing in without templating is acceptable for most things long as you sign your post.
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10-21-2011, 06:06 AM #19Community Member
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Ty Shade. That is most helpful and I will have a looksey at that. Originally Posted by Shade
One last thing I want to say to those who said, 'Missing anything ? just write it yourself.' - yes but how to add knowledge I dont have or able to find ?
But thx to those of you who were constructive and helpful - like Shade here was.
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10-21-2011, 07:13 AM #20Community Member
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You can post in the discussion on the related page that you can't find that information, and you'd like it to be added to the page. And someone can help you from there. Originally Posted by Lewendriel
Former Xoriat-er. Embrace the Madness.
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