The Ronk? The Monger?

[WangChi]

I'm thinking about an 11 Ranger/9 Monk build. Gets all the TWF feats and ranged for free, 3 favored enemies (evil outsiders, constructs, elementals?), Improved Evasion, 1d10 fists, plus 7 feats.

I've never played a ranger and have only a low-level knowledge (lvl 2) of monk, my main is a rogue and I have a mid-level paladin at the moment.

Is this build worthwhile? Will I be able to pull out a bow, fire off a many-shot of slayer arrows, then dive in with fists and feet a flying? What kind of enhancements could I/should I be looking at? Is there a particular race that would gel with this the best? Dwarf for the con+hp? I don't need charisma for this build obviously.

Is there a build out there like this? Any advice at all would be great.

EDIT - After great advice, here's my attempt with the char builder. I debated about taking Human Greater Adaptability: Constitution so I could take Racial Toughness III - but that's a ton of AP for only 10hps.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Male
(9 Monk \ 11 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 312
Spell Points: 205 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 17
Will: 13

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 23                   24
Dexterity            14                 16                   18
Constitution         16                 18                   18
Intelligence          8                 10                   10
Wisdom               14                 16                   18
Charisma              8                 10                   10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                    14
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration         7                    29
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                  2                     4
Hide                  6                    26
Intimidate           -1                     0
Jump                  7                    22
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently         6                    26
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  6                    22
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder


Level 16 (Ranger)


Level 17 (Ranger)


Level 18 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 19 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 20 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost II
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Eagle Claw Attack
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Void Strike II
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II

[Therigar]

Great concept. Since there are thousands of players, I'm sure someone has something similar. Whether there's anything in the forums is another matter....

One bit of advice, take the Zen Archery feat if you want to maintain Ki while shooting arrows. Ki will decline very quickly if you are not using weapons that keep you centered. That includes several weapons that are on the list for monks to use, such as hand axes or daggers.

Monk 9 lets you take Ninja Spy I gaining use of short swords and also allows you the Touch of Death attack. I found using short swords was a reasonable alternative to finding silver-threaded or metalline handwraps on dark path monks.

The only thing that I would note about an 11/9 split is that it stops you from picking up tier 2 PrEs. I don't know how much that matters to you. But, Tempest II is generally considered worth having for its impact on TWF.

Otherwise, the build should work pretty much as you envision it. Just keep in mind that you'll want Zen Archery (even if you aren't relying on WIS to hit) because you can treat the bows as Ki weapons and retain Ki while shooting.

[Indoran]

its somewhat similar to the exploiter (effects, and some strengths, but it lacks traps, and have a bit different flavor)...

But I dont think that many monk levels are really a huge benefit.... replacing some with fighter, keeping monk for AC and getting more feats in the process seems like a good idea.

You can use the bow in the build you propose but you will become unbalanced (does zen archery offset this??). And will have to reselect stance when you go back to fists (and lose ki during the 20 secs of manyshot).

I am not sure If I would take more than 6 levels of ranger also...

But I just realized that I am inclined to favor the monster build (fighter 12, ranger 6, monk2)

[-Nismu-]

it is great build, elf to get full arcane archer and yeah zen archery makes bows work as ki weapon so you don't need to worry that. though one problem is that both classes get nice stuff on their last level so it can be trouble to decide in which order to level up them ( 11 ranger gets you +5 bark, precise and imp precise shot and gtwf while monk gives touch of death for melee power)

[Tsuarok]

If you go AA, go Helf if you've got it.

But even though you'd only get Tier I, I'd still go tempest.
Between improved evasion and ToD it's totally worth it.
Just grab a little bit of dex to get dodge, mobility, and Spring Attack, the rest in str and con. Although you'll be able to use short swords, they don't allow you to use ToD, so you should probably stick to wraps. Obviously go dark path.

[WangChi]

Great advice everyone, thanks a ton. I have half-elf, so I'm thinking that route is best, rogue-dilly for SA or is another dilletante feat better? What are the pro's/con's of light path/dark path at end-game? I know every time I run ToD we're waiting on healers and a light-monk for grasping. Is dark path just better overall?

Thanks!

[Vissarion]

Great advice everyone, thanks a ton. I have half-elf, so I'm thinking that route is best, rogue-dilly for SA or is another dilletante feat better? What are the pro's/con's of light path/dark path at end-game? I know every time I run ToD we're waiting on healers and a light-monk for grasping. Is dark path just better overall?

Thanks!

For a splash build, Dark is better overall due to Shadow Fade, ToD, and 1d6 sneak. And rogue dilly is definitely the best option for endgame, as it stacks with the Ninja Spy sneak dice.

However, if you have the shard for a feat swap (first tier Agents of Argo favor gives a flawless siberys shard now) along with your free feat swap, you could go light path + cleric dilletante until endgame for supremely easier leveling.

[WangChi]

For a splash build, Dark is better overall due to Shadow Fade, ToD, and 1d6 sneak. And rogue dilly is definitely the best option for endgame, as it stacks with the Ninja Spy sneak dice.

However, if you have the shard for a feat swap (first tier Agents of Argo favor gives a flawless siberys shard now) along with your free feat swap, you could go light path + cleric dilletante until endgame for supremely easier leveling.

Good idea on the feat swap - updated the original post with my build plan. Thanks again!

[Arlathen]

Yes, this build split has been done many times, including by myself - do a Forum search for 'Blasphemous Abomination'.

The core concept really is about going AA and Dark Monk on a Elf/Half-Elf so that you get Slayer Arrows (500pts on a natural 20) and Touch of Death (500pt Fist Strike) for great bursting DPS.

Its a blast to play, can be very self sufficient and will prove to be very versatile.

*Sniff, I miss mine boohoo*

[DustTheWind]

I considered that route with my monk in her next TR. She is a similar build currently 1 cleric, 13 monk 6 ranger. I was considering going 1/6/13 rogue/ranger/monk. The thing is that much monk demands you are a dex build. To get improved precise shot. Then you might as well stack dex to hit and your strength is low, wisdom suffers a bit. So this one is a dex build highly evasive. And she has evasion. Definitely a wind stance toon. Being a dex build required me to take dex to hit with my hands feat. You get abundant step though, harder hitting hand to hand damage, more sneak attack from dark monk and improved crit with short swords. And all those monk abilities at level 13 like spell resistance natural. She is missing the extra crit range with her hands.

The build you are looking at I think is a wisdom strength build. You use wisdom to hit with the bow and strength for hand and bow damage. You have better self healing, no abundant step, less sneak attack damage, no extra crit with short swords, little less faster and maybe 1 less AC. But in return extra ranger frees up feats required. You get improved precise shot, Better self healing with sp, You can use stunning fist (wisdom based). You can fit in extra hand crit range. Maybe earth stance so better crits with bow or hands and natural damage resistance but slower movement. I am not familiar with all the benefits of this particular model but it certainly has it merits.

They both are dark monks it would seem and use slayer arrow and touch of death... thought I did try here as a light monk for a bit then changed my mind.

[nerdychaz]

Go 14 ranger for Tempest II

[Symar-FangofLloth]

The Monk enhancement Ten Thousand Stars appears to be updated in U12. It'll work with bows (assuming you have Zen Archery) in addition to shuriken, and works as a Wisdom-based Manyshot. I have no numbers on how much Wisdom does what. But it helps out this style of build.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I've seen this build a fair few times and honestly I'm not particularly fond of it.

I'd say that 12 monk, 6 ranger, 2 fighter is a much stronger build. You get a similar amount of feats but also get haste boost, tier 3 stances (earth stance gives +1 crit multiplier that can be used with bows and water gives +1 passive Ki regen), abundant step, ninja-spy II (+2d6 sneak attack, waterwalk), better fist damage etc.

Half-elf, rogue dilettante is excellent for this build for arcane archer and a total of +6d6 sneak attack.

[Arkadios]

I made a similar build, Dwarf 18ranger/2 monk bow mostly fists for stunning/when not on manyshot.

Send me a message if you want to take a look at it and see if get any ideas etc from it.

[Arlathen]

I'd say that 12 monk, 6 ranger, 2 fighter is a much stronger build. You get a similar amount of feats but also get haste boost, tier 3 stances (earth stance gives +1 crit multiplier that can be used with bows and water gives +1 passive Ki regen), abundant step, ninja-spy II (+2d6 sneak attack, waterwalk), better fist damage etc.

That's where I went to on Arlathen with an LR after deciding I wanted more Melee DPS and Monk goodies while preserving the AA/Manshot/Slayer Arrow concept.

However, then the change to Stunning Fist happened - becoming based on character level instead of Monk level. It was the final nail for my build, as as DC41 was 'ok' in Epics. I then LR'd again to 12 Monk/7 Fighter/1 Ranger and never looked back at my DC46 Stunning Fist Zergmeister.

Just a shame I have both a Lightning2 and Earth3 Bows sat in the bank now....

[karl_k0ch]

Go 14 ranger for Tempest II

Nice break points are:

• 11 Ranger for the feats when taking a racial PrE.
• 12 Ranger for Tempest 2 (cf. The Prodigy)
• 13 Ranger for Favored Damage IV.
• 14 Ranger for one level 4 spell
• 15 Ranger for additional FE damage/to hit and another level 4 spell

Going 14 ranger makes only sense if you absolutely only want one level 4 spell and splash a Tier 1 PrE. Otherwise, 15 ranger offers much more. Both in the damage, and the versatility department.
If you don't care for level 4 spells, then 12 (or 13) Ranger is more sensical.

And on a final note, taking Tempest will lock you out of the racial PrE which is discussed on most of the posts in this thread.