Artificers - You are the ultimate raid healers for most raids. Exploit this utility.

[sacredguyver]

I look forward to replacing my Clerics and FvS with Artificers in all quests and raids except for Epics (where I will not let them in my party and I will drop group if one is accepted when I don't have the star).

lol agree... arti's in epic = chance for no chest for the group. hopefully this is fixed in 11.1 as was alluded to by a dev. ofc, some have said it could just be the arti's puppy breaking the epic chests, could indeed be true, but i wont risk it.

Bwuh...?

[Shakanos]

Unless I'm absolutely terrible at math, going from a 110 scroll to 150 is a 36% (.36 repeating) increase. The rest of the multipliers are obtainable by any of the classes that you'd currently expect to be popping Heal scrolls, so the base value increase is the only part that should matter. A 36% increase is certainly nothing to sneeze at.


The Bard mention is saddening, as they're now screwed on almost all ends. Less SP/useful healing spells than a Divine, and now no longer the king of item usage (which was mostly just an easier time of raising UMD via class skill + CHA casting stat - no actual benefit over others), either. Would be interesting to see them get maybe half the item boost (or full, but let's not steal the Arti thunder too hard) that Artificers do, as they're so item based for healing (least Artificer gets Reconstruct/repair spells to go with their potion infusions). Bardic Knowledge and all that.

Of course, many people expect Bards to just sing and pike so not like it really changes their chance of getting a group, heh.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

This is yet another thread on how to build a gimp toon that can heal Shade the 1000hp barbarian.

I almost miss that halfling bard thread now, ya know that bard that could barely throw heros companion while holding his shorts up......... yep, this one. (Thanks to the person who pm'd me the link!!) LOL.

[Rawel_San]

This. Heal scrolls are awesome. If you can use them, use them.

I'm a bit confused about the 207% number... as I see it, a well-geared tank would have:

1.1 ship buff * 1.2 tod ring * 1.3 eclaw gloves = 171%

Not saying OP is wrong, just wondering what I am missing.

You're missing 1.1 (dt/first tier shroud) but that still only makes it 1.89 or so. So yeah I had
the same question...

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

The Bard mention is saddening, as they're now screwed on almost all ends. Less SP/useful healing spells than a Divine, and now no longer the king of item usage (which was mostly just an easier time of raising UMD via class skill + CHA casting stat - no actual benefit over others), either. Would be interesting to see them get maybe half the item boost (or full, but let's not steal the Arti thunder too hard) that Artificers do, as they're so item based for healing (least Artificer gets Reconstruct/repair spells to go with their potion infusions). Bardic Knowledge and all that.

Of course, many people expect Bards to just sing and pike so not like it really changes their chance of getting a group, heh.

There is nothing wrong with bards. Bards are unaffected by Artificers. They make far better group healers. You are playing with the wrong people if they think bards can only sing and buff.

I'm happy there's another class in the game now that can be build so meticulously around one's play style, just like bards. Artificers are plain fun to build and play, and should not, but will, be pigeonholed (therefore ostricized by many) into doing just one thing.

Be creative. Learn everything an Arti can do. Study the game mechanics. Match them to your play style. MAKE the class shine!

[sigtrent]

Another reason its proving to be a very strategic class, and the new raids were clearly designed on many levels to feature their abilities.

Great post Shade. At first blush they don't look like healers but they can serve that role in a support capacity very well.

I think the down side is they don't heal well "under pressure" as they aren't heavy in HP and scroll casting requires concentration. FVS do really well under pressure with strong HP and deep mana pools to defend themselves with. Still, good teamwork should be able to keep them from coming under the gun.. so long as they aren't just shooting everything in the room randomly.

One problem is that most artificers don't start out being able to really leverage scrolls and such, its more a long term plan and so they are often built for what works up front, which is shooting the crossbow at everything that moves and in mid game being damage casters to augment the crossbow.

Playing around with build Ideas I think the only reasons to multi-class them are for some flavor, solo or theme build. They already have a great mix of features built into the class.

This is one of the first threads I've seen good info about how they play out end game, Its great to hear people describe the rolls they are finding for them.

[Rawel_San]

You're missing 1.1 (dt/first tier shroud) but that still only makes it 1.89 or so. So yeah I had
the same question...

Ahh I see a well geared tank also wears a finger neckie it seems. that would give 207%. So obviously a well
geared tank these days is a no ac barb if I understand it right? :P

[Darkrok]

Shade, you're 100% correct (and I don't say that often).

I've felt this from the moment I looked at the class and I'm chomping at the bit to get some other in-game projects done so that I can TR my crafter to an Arti to take advantage of exactly what you've laid out.

Also, don't overlook the Mass Cure scrolls. No, they're not quite the same level as the infusions but they're unlimited and can provide some nice extra mass healing to the raid/group. A level 20 Artificer is as powerful as the scrolls, wands, and clickies they carry. A smart player with a decent (but not exceptional) bank account can make that very powerful indeed.

Now as for how good the arti's are at taking advantage of that...I just don't know. I've been working on TR projects for the most part since U11 hit and mostly solo so I can't really say how good the players have been at leveraging that power...but it's unquestionable that Arti's strongest point is the flexibility and power behind stacks of scrolls.

[etelan]

How:
Very Easily:
1. Get scroll mastery IV.
2. Carry heal scrolls (Too poor, ask your party, they will gladly chip in the cost, any decent veteran player can afford unlimited scrolls.)
3. Win at DDO.

Axer, this might be my favorite thread you've posted. So simple it's comical, but true.

[mltryman]

Shade ~ sorry to hear your local arti's have sucked at keeping you up and there are plenty of people on each side of the fence with personal opinions about you. All that aside, I am the arti that ran LoB with you and kept you up just fine and dandy with the 500+ hp heal scrolls (Velashiera).
* Yes we can heal well with scrolls, potion bombs, and even throw cure poison and rem curse bombs
* Yes there are ALOT of idiot arti's around thinking they are megaman or rambo - ignore them
* No we will not be forced into the "scroll heals" roll or be pigeon holed into anything (unless the player is spineless)
* Good point made - people want the arti to play scroll healer, provide the scrolls. (but also fellow arti's, carry a stack of 100 heal, 100 recon, atleast 50 greater resto, and 50 raise dead scrolls) Anything beyond that the group should either fork up or cover the expense.



*** Oh and a side note, whatever arti is bringing the dog out in epics is a moron. Do not use your dog in epics, they cause problems - draw aggro by running off and generally are useless as i've come to find out. To the rest of the players, don't drop or ban arti's from your epics, just politely ask us to keep our dog in the box Win win for everyone.

[mournbladereigns]

Playing around with build Ideas I think the only reasons to multi-class them are for some flavor, solo or theme build. They already have a great mix of features built into the class.

This is one of the first threads I've seen good info about how they play out end game, Its great to hear people describe the rolls they are finding for them.

Amazing how most of them are to heal/buff shades Barb

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Shade ~ sorry to hear your local arti's have sucked at keeping you up and there are plenty of people on each side of the fence with personal opinions about you. All that aside, I am the arti that ran LoB with you and kept you up just fine and dandy with the 500+ hp heal scrolls (Velashiera).
* Yes we can heal well with scrolls, potion bombs, and even throw cure poison and rem curse bombs
* Yes there are ALOT of idiot arti's around thinking they are megaman or rambo - ignore them
* No we will not be forced into the "scroll heals" roll or be pigeon holed into anything (unless the player is spineless)
* Good point made - people want the arti to play scroll healer, provide the scrolls. (but also fellow arti's, carry a stack of 100 heal, 100 recon, atleast 50 greater resto, and 50 raise dead scrolls) Anything beyond that the group should either fork up or cover the expense.



*** Oh and a side note, whatever arti is bringing the dog out in epics is a moron. Do not use your dog in epics, they cause problems - draw aggro by running off and generally are useless as i've come to find out. To the rest of the players, don't drop or ban arti's from your epics, just politely ask us to keep our dog in the box Win win for everyone.

Very good points. Although, I prolly would have made Shade die a few times, just to keep him straight!

[Chai]

Not to nit pick but you said that an average clr/fvs can hit with a heal scroll for ~300 but that a full mastery lined arti only gets 263.

Full Wand and Scroll Mastery cleric/fvs will get 110*1.55=170.5. 340 against a 200% heal amp tank build.

I really like what you're trying to do here but I'd mention that with this style of healing that you don't really have much in the way of panic buttons. What happens when the tank rolls a 1 on his disintegrate save and drops to <100 HP? Heal scroll is on timer, potions take too long ... Maybe there is a heal clicky you could use but otherwise need a second healer around, or did I miss something? (cure crit scroll would only heal for 60).

Arti's make great scroll healers as you say but they won't trump a cleric, bard or fvs for when things go south

Youd still have a cleric or FvS there for healing, or at least someone else who can UMD scrolls no fail. What hes pointing out is that in most raid situations, people use scrolls to shore up mana resources rather than pots, and we have been handed an even more efficient scroll healer with the artificer class, than everyone else in the game.

Weve done TOD now several times with one main healer, an arcane caster healing the warforged sulo tank, and the arty scrolling the horoth tank, with the bard backing up the arty with scrolls and maxed CCW. People dont want to play their healers much anymore? - have to find a solution for that.

[Chette]

So when are you going to be rolling up a heal specced artificer then Shade?

An arti's scrolls will hit for like 35% more than another character with the same level on AP spent on wand and scroll mastery. But it's certainly not the only thing they can do.

I'll agree with you that they should carry scrolls, and buy at least the first two ranks of wand and scroll mastery, just like every other heal-scroll user in the game should (that includes you bards, rogues, and bard and rogue splashes).

[B0ltdrag0n]

I'm glad others made comments about bank accounts and blue bars being taxed directly by Big Brother er I mean a 0 AC 'Tank' It was hard not to in my original post.

[djsonar919]

SHHHHHH....Shade!!!! Don't give away all our Artificer secrets!

[Indoran]

not the best healers.... very good healers can sure be and SHOULD carry scrolls of both heal and reconstruct... as well as pk wands and all the nice clickies they can get...

And yes seriously lots of Artificers think they are too uber to buff other ppl and be flexible... they want to say quietly in the small box the made for themselves...

Hell even my blitz carry heal scrolls...

[Vellrad]

And I foolishly though, that times where everyone was melees' slave was over...

[wax_on_wax_off]

Youd still have a cleric or FvS there for healing, or at least someone else who can UMD scrolls no fail. What hes pointing out is that in most raid situations, people use scrolls to shore up mana resources rather than pots, and we have been handed an even more efficient scroll healer with the artificer class, than everyone else in the game.

Weve done TOD now several times with one main healer, an arcane caster healing the warforged sulo tank, and the arty scrolling the horoth tank, with the bard backing up the arty with scrolls and maxed CCW. People dont want to play their healers much anymore? - have to find a solution for that.

This is true but it makes a falsehood out of the statement: "Artificers - You are the ultimate raid healers for most raids. Exploit this utility."

Simply, you can't be an ultimate raid healer unless you are capable of dealing with those oh-****! moments yourself. Not to say that I don't totally endorse the general theme of this thread being that Artificers are great scroll healers. However, they pretty much need to be babysat while doing so by a real healer to mitigate any spikes in damage. Healing in DDO is, afterall, not so much about consistent healing but about dealing with the spikes that have the potential to wipe a party.

[Chai]

This is true but it makes a falsehood out of the statement: "Artificers - You are the ultimate raid healers for most raids. Exploit this utility."

Apparently since using 600 scrolls per raid is considered resource conservation, artificers are the ultimate raid healers.

Simply, you can't be an ultimate raid healer unless you are capable of dealing with those oh-****! moments yourself. Not to say that I don't totally endorse the general theme of this thread being that Artificers are great scroll healers. However, they pretty much need to be babysat while doing so by a real healer to mitigate any spikes in damage. Healing in DDO is, afterall, not so much about consistent healing but about dealing with the spikes that have the potential to wipe a party.

This doesnt support the "mass heal only, dont join if you cant live through 4 cleaves between masses" theory of healing relitivity, heh.

What I feel artificers do is make it so different combinations of classes can be accepted because their scroll heal + heal amp geared player is the best no mana heal in the game. I "babysat" one on my bard, and he and I healed raid tanks while the only other "real healer" was off healing the other group DPSing the mob on the other side of the room.

It also makes it so artificers arent pigeonholed into "buffs + dps" only roles.