Please don't let anyone feel guilty while playing DDO

[Tembyr]

My heart goes out to all famous actors and actresses that were at some time casted as the bad guy or girl. I see now that they must have been struggling inside, pretending to do evil things. Or perhaps they are all evil.

Let me remind you all not to gaze into the abyss.

Slippery slopes...

In all seriousness. You have noticed that you have no-one agreeing with your points of view and thus will gather no support and effect no change. It's time to let it go.

[Jakarr]

Ethics like good and evil are just man made products which give us backing to support and do deeds.

How many "good" deeds have been done over the ages in the name of a God or person?

What is good to you is not good to me, what is evil to you is not evil to me.

Take a step outside of that box inside your mind, broaden your view you will see that the world isn't black and white, the good guys are really the bad guys, and the bad guys really are doing things they think are good.

How many people thought Hitler was right and good?

That the Crusades was right and good?

Wars, political and religion based, that the general population viewed as right and good?

There are two sides to every coin my friend take a look at the other side and see that prospective.

[Drfirewater79]

This thread is to focus on a raid flagging quest: Running with the Devils.

For those who are still unaware that you will perform unethical behaviors in this quest, here is a brief explanation of the quest:

At quest beginning, you will see a man dresses a robe of The Twelve. He tells you that one of his companion is imprisoned by Eladrins in this dungeon and he ask you to rescue his companion. Then he casts a strange aura on you and claims the aura will help you rescuing his companion. However, it is exactly the aura (evil aura) which make those GOOD-aligned Eladrins attack you when they sense the aura on you. You then have no choice but to kill lots of GOOD-aligned Eladrins in order to advance the quest. At the end, the man you rescue turns out to be a tiefling who disguises himself as one of The Twelve member.

So, the main problem of this quest is players have to kill many GOOD-aligned Eladrins to complete the quest. That's actually unacceptable to people who care about things they do are ethical or not.

If the plot of this quest remains unchanged, I certainly won't do it again after I TR because my conscience doesn't allow me to kill GOOD-aligned beings.

However, this quest is not a non-flagging quest like Purge the Heretics or Wrath of the Flame which we can choose not to do them. This quest is a raid flagging quest. If you don't do it, you can't do the raid.

Therefore, I suggest that the plot of this quest has some modifications. There can be an optional which let us use the Diplomacy skill to advance the quest without killing any Eladrin. Or even better, remove the must-kill-Eladrins plot so all player won't commit unethical behaviors, no matter aware or unaware.

you have an ethical problem with killing mythical/fantasy GOOD aligned creatures in a video game? dispite the fact that your doing it because there is no way to avoid it (especially because of dungeon alert and the fact that you are kicked from sneak and invis when you use switches) but you dont have an ethical problem killing bad guys?

killing is killing ... if your question is of ethics then there should always be an option to hold back damage so you can simply knock them out rather then kill them so you can ARREST bad guys instead of kill them .... any good RPing palidan would never kill an intelligent being .. he would arrest them for doing something against the law of the land and bring them before the king of the land for justice (or high priest) .

this is why they have the option to not kill mobs in PnP.

if your gonna RP being ethical ... maybe you should study ethics.

besides you where fooled into doing it the first time ... if you repeat the quest you are doing it cause you like killing good guys.

[stretchcore]

pffft. Guilt is for lawful types.
Go chaotic neutral!

edit: I bear no responsibility for the lack of /popcorn in my posts for a week or two.

[dunklezhan]

In all seriousness. You have noticed that you have no-one agreeing with your points of view and thus will gather no support and effect no change. It's time to let it go.

While I'd rather not see repeats of these sorts of threads every day, I can't agree that because no-one agrees or will support you, you should give up. That way lies apathy for all. That way also means that people with alternative political views should never stand for political office, or that cerrtain prevailing views should never be challenged (it took a very, very long time for women's and minority rights to get started because 'no-one' i.e. anyone with any ability to effect change - cared. It took a long time to convince people to stand up to the 3rd Reich, to start with no-one wanted to know about gunpowder or translating the bible to other languages etc etc etc).

However I can agree that perhaps Ian needs to think about how s/he is putting across their message, and whether or not the currently chosen method is the most effective if they wish to effect any change whatsoever.

[stretchcore]

The trick is to learn to distinguish between reality and fiction. Most children learn that around ages 3-5. (Some people never do, but for those there's effective treatment.)

oh god (wait, can I say that here?) I just saw this.
You now have all the +1s. All of them.

[Vellrad]

You feel bad because you play a stupid video game?
(voice of half-life's HEV)

Seek medical attention

[Templarion]

I think someone needs to explore his/her inner-self little more and be more open for different opinions. It can be dangerous to hide something inside and/or encase traumatic experiences.

[Wizzly_Bear]

For the third time now, Ian, I ask you - why don't you have a problem physically assaulting an unarmed half-naked woman? Am I to believe this behavior is acceptable from a "virtuous" person?

[grgurius]

Well Ian, i'm surprised that no one told you this yet, but D&D and DDO by extension, are a satanic recruitment program.

That's right, we are all satan worshipers here.

[Veriden]

Guilt? For what? Celestial beings are among my favorite ones to kill. Where else am I going to use my axiomatic cold iron handwraps of chaotic outsider bane paired with unholy burst tod ring?

For me in pnp, celestials, clerics and paladins have always been my favorite things to fight b/c 'evil' in pnp is underpowered compared to 'good'. There is no balance when one compares evil vs good creatures dnd makes it quite clear that good will always when paired up to fight evil.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Further, if you are correct that we are all morally bankrupt for playing this game as is, what does that say about the makers of this game? Why the hell would they be inclined to listen to you if they are so insidious as to have produced such a work of evil? And more importantly, how can you then justify your time spent in game? Are you not in danger of having your soul corrupted by you exposing yourself to all this vile and base degenerative muck?

DDO-ers - I invite you all to join me in reporting Ian for insulting all of us by implying we are morally bankrupt. This is insulting and should be treated as such.

And Ian, one last thing, if you are so virtuous, how then do you justify treating your fellows with such disdain, contempt, and lack of respect? You're more concerned about the dignity of fictional entities in an online game than you are real people in the real world.

[IanYang]

For the third time now, Ian, I ask you - why don't you have a problem physically assaulting an unarmed half-naked woman? Am I to believe this behavior is acceptable from a "virtuous" person?

That depends on whether the woman is evil or not.

And I didn't say I'm a virtuous person. I just try to do my best when I can.