Let's Talk Monk DR 10/Epic....

[Feralthyrtiaq]

OK so...

Never really could figure out why a Level 20 Monk would get DR 10/Epic?

It's not needed in 1-19 (can't have it then anyway it's for lvl 20 Monks)

It's not useful in Epics (Epic Mobs bypass it)

So.....

It's really only useful for ???

Running <20 content?

How about giving monks some <3

Sometime at or near level 20 monks become "Lawful Outsiders"

How bout DR 10/Chaotic at level 20?

[Sarisa]

It's not useful in Epics (Epic Mobs bypass it)

Very few epic mobs actually bypass Epic DR. Velah, Lailat's swords, and some devil/demon natural weapons do. Most regular trash and quest bosses do not.

[ckorik]

Actually Epic mobs don't bypass it - er most don't - very few things in game have epic damage as a type.

And we do become native outsiders at 20 - I believe hold person no longer works on a monk at 20.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

an answer in web-land but to no avail.

Wiki was no help.

Could not find specifically exactly precisely what DR10/Epic works with.

Does anyone out there know what mobs in game bypass DR10/Epic for sure?

Seems DR10/Chaotic would be more in line with monk-ishness and understandable like the FVS DR10/ (Silver,Cold Iron etc)

Thanks!

[TheKeg]

an answer in web-land but to no avail.

Wiki was no help.

Could not find specifically exactly precisely what DR10/Epic works with.

Does anyone out there know what mobs in game bypass DR10/Epic for sure?

Seems DR10/Chaotic would be more in line with monk-ishness and understandable like the FVS DR10/ (Silver,Cold Iron etc)

Thanks!

I'd rather my DR 10/Epic. Chaotic....even level 1 mobs could bypass that.

[gamj]

Originally speaking (from PnP) a creature's natural weapon can bypass any natural DR it has.

For example, a dragon with DR/Magic can bypass this same DR when using it's natural weapons.

So unless the epic creatures are using their natural weapons (and themselves have DR/Epic) it's not going to bypass it (unless otherwise specified).

My only grip about DR 10/Epic for monks, would be that it would be nice if that would apply to them.. As in, when they use their natural attacks (fists) they bypass Epic DR.

[scottmike0]

i like my monk having 10 dr, since it does stack with literally everything. sheild block with handwraps in grandmaster earth stance = 20 dr sheild blocking. when i solo quests very rapidly i tend to get harried and get peirced but when i do my ac works out and rarely will i get hit for more than 3 pierce damage. so it is awesome having 10dr/epic

[Kinerd]

an answer in web-land but to no avail.

Wiki was no help.

Could not find specifically exactly precisely what DR10/Epic works with.

Does anyone out there know what mobs in game bypass DR10/Epic for sure?

Seems DR10/Chaotic would be more in line with monk-ishness and understandable like the FVS DR10/ (Silver,Cold Iron etc)

Thanks!

Epic is a damage type just like Good, Chaotic, Silver, etc. In the same way that not all Good beings do Good damage, not all Epic monsters do Epic damage. Sarisa's list is accurate. You can sometimes see Paragon Kobolds (i.e. Enter the Kobold trash) bypass Epic DR, but that might be a bug.

[Noctus]

DR/Epic is bypassed by weapons with an enchantmant bonus of +6 or higher (or equivalently potent natural weapons).

Just being an epic mob is not enough, by far. Only very few epic mobs break this DR.

[Shade]

Why do they even get 10 dr period?

Monks are not meant to be a class that can soak up the most damage, ignore pain and have very thick skin from ages of battle. Thats Barbarians. The fact monks get far superior DR at 20 is utter nonsense.

Monks are about agility, speed and dodging blows, not soaking up damage and ignoring pain like barbarians. It just doesn't translate right to DR ,and also is unbalanced.. Monks are far superior in far too many other ways for them to also win on that.

They should of got something more fitting, like +10% permanent blur (non stacking), or +5% stacking blur to represent there agility and mastery of dodging attacks.

And yea:
I'm not aware of a single epic monster that bypasses epic DR besides certain raid bosses (which also bypass it on non epic). Confusing sure but thats how it works.

Even very powerful red named epic end bosses do not bypass it.

What bypasses DR/Epic:
- Paragon Kobolds - just regular ones, like in shroud or enter the kobold. Even on casual. PnP rule - Monsters with DR/X tend to break DR/X with there natural weapons (tho most paragon kobolds in ddo use swords..)
- Certain raid bosses: Mostly only on elite. The ones that bypass it on elite, do so on epic too.. It's not really even epic difficulty related, just passed on from elite.

Tho some break it on normal: Example: Xyzzy, passes DR/Epic on normal.

In 3.0 rules anything with a +6 weapon would break it.. But in 3.5, which ddo is bypassed on.. Nope, only weapons which specificly have the epic damage type do so.. Even +10 weapons like the epic sword of shadows dont bypass it (and cant even be slotted to do so)

For 99.9% of the game, DR/Epic = DR/-. It's dumb, but thats how it is.

[Therigar]

Why do they even get 10 dr period?

Monks are not meant to be a class that can soak up the most damage, ignore pain and have very thick skin from ages of battle. Thats Barbarians. The fact monks get far superior DR at 20 is utter nonsense.

Keeping in mind that the monk class is based on fantasy versions of oriental martial arts, the above statement is not accurate. In fantasy martial arts monks train so that their skin is hard as stone and normal blows do not affect them. This is represented in D&D (DDO) by DR. It is completely sensible within the fantasy martial arts genre to view D&D monks as DR 10/epic @ L20 when they transcend mortality and become outsiders.

[Grenada]

Shade,

I have yet to see a monk tank. When that day comes, I will complain about how OP monks are.

Honestly, that 10 DR is about as good as a favored soul's, since not many mobs have the type listed for them either.

[peng]

I believe it's based on the pnp monks who get dr 10/magic at lvl 20. This is much more useless (in pnp or ddo) than what the op suggested. Any mob capable of getting past even a completely naked and gearless lvl 20 monk's ac probably has magical weapons. I'm pretty happy with the upgrade.

[Grenada]

I believe it's based on the pnp monks who get dr 10/magic at lvl 20. This is much more useless (in pnp or ddo) than what the op suggested. Any mob capable of getting past even a completely naked and gearless lvl 20 monk's ac probably has magical weapons. I'm pretty happy with the upgrade.

it was DR 20/magic in 3.0, not sure what it was in 3.5 (monks got changed a fair bit between those two)

[J1NG]

Well, technically, it was supposed to be:

10/Magic (as per rules)

But then Turbine messed up that DR long before monks came about in DDO. In short, Turbine screwed over the Monk's level 20 ability.

Why wait till level 20 instead of getting an invulnerability item? Or anything else along those lines?

Also, the abundance of enemies with capabilities to bypass DR Magic is basically everything from level 8 onwards. Meaning, again, Turbine will have screwed over the Level 20 Monk. Meaning no one will play a monk to level 20 as there is no need to. In short, they give you a feat that doesn't help with anything but level 8 quests or lower as a level 20.

So... Turbine gave monks DR/Epic to compensate. You can still get hurt when the situation is right. But otherwise, for all intents and purposes, will act like the old DR/Magic for normal campaigns.

It's all about sales really.

Level 20 monk work completed but no one wants to play to that? Wasted money, so DR/Epic was born for monks.

Or something along that story anyway.

---

It's fine really when you think about it. It's kinda like how Barbarians are allowed to rage up and beyond DnD PnP Deity level strength stats? It's Turbine's campaign here and it's what they added. It works as intended, so leave it be.

To be honest, if we are to complain, how about we complain that there are no quests that remove all items from all players and you have been captured and need to break out from the heavily guarded prison and regain your gear before confronting the one who captured you? Or something like that? It happens in PnP, let's have it happen here.

Barbarian. "Don't worry, I will rage above 50 Strength (no gear) and tackle that Purple Named Adamantine Golem that's blocking our escape!" Barbarian swings, does 0 damage.

Monk. "Amateur...(!)". Monk swings, hits Purple Named Adamantine Golem for 22 damage.

Purple Named Adamantine Golem uses special ability: Save vs Reflex; 20d6 force damage + knockdown, save for half and to ignore knockdown. Barbarian goes down. Monk continues the assault. Barbarian gets told to stand away or wait to be carried to the next shrine...

It's just the way DDO is, if it's done right, a Monk == god. Just like any other class. In DDO, if you can make something happen, it doesn't mean it's overpowered. 100+ strength? Not overpowered. Monk that can make a better tank than a Barbarian? Not overpowered. Able to solo the Shroud with 0 pots? Not overpowered. Able to tank the Lord of Blades with 0 pots and do Grudge Marking Optional on Hard with 6 questionable PuG's? Not overpowered.

Monks = Fine.
Barbarians = Fine.

J1NG

[Caliban]

Shade,

I have yet to see a monk tank. When that day comes, I will complain about how OP monks are.

Honestly, that 10 DR is about as good as a favored soul's, since not many mobs have the type listed for them either.

Monks (not mine) have tanked Horoth in ToD, does that count?

My dark monk has tanked the Reaver (of course, wizards tank the Reaver. :P), Hound of Xoriat, and Vision of Destruction.

I've been in several low level groups on my new light monk where I have the highest AC and most HP while still doing respectable DPS.

So, yeah a monk can tank if they are built that way and geared for it.

[gerardIII]

Shade,

I have yet to see a monk tank. When that day comes, I will complain about how OP monks are.

Honestly, that 10 DR is about as good as a favored soul's, since not many mobs have the type listed for them either.

I've seen monks tank CAD in echrono.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

My only interest in the Monk DR10/Epic was in considering getting into more Epic content and my lack of understanding how the DDO Monks DR worked in Epics.

Thanks for the knowledge!

And yeah, I've got a good friend that tanks with his dark monk for me whenever his Cannon Fodder tank is on timer.

Anyhoo...Thanks for the clarification

[Lavek]

why monks get DR?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4jT-AtpCSY

thats why...