Evil

[Chrasch]

Let players make Evil characters. It wouldn't hurt anything at all. In fact it would add even more variety because there could then be Evil type spells that are mean or something. In Paper and Pencil people use Evil characters all the time. You could even add special quests that are Evil, Good, Lawful, or Chaotic only access for more variety.

[IanYang]

@Talias006,

(1) I didn't force anyone. What I did was pointing out an incorrect thought.

(2) I'm not opposed to having Evil monster/NPCs in the game to "balance" Good.

[Nysrock]

@Talias006,

(1) I didn't force anyone. What I did was pointing out an incorrect thought.

(2) I'm not opposed to having Evil monster/NPCs in the game to "balance" Good.

Incorrect in YOUR way of thinking. That doesn't make it true. And if someone else wants to have an evil character then by all means let them. All it really is is words on your character sheet. I could roll up a Lawful Good paladin and rollplay him as Lawful Evil if I wanted to. Doing so doesn't make me inherently evil, it just means I have a good imagination.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I'd be ok with evil only if it was brought about as a feature of a new PvP system. All characters must be made as neutral or good as they are now but if you perform unsanctioned pvp actions then your alignment will shift towards being evil.

Once a character becomes evil then the town guard will arrest/attack them, paladins can detect them with their detect evil ability, prices may be put on their head and any good/neutral character can kill them without consequence.

See how much fun it is to play an evil character then.

As far as the OPs suggestion, evil characters would unbalance the game as you wouldn't be vulnerable to unholy damage which a lot of bosses use. Hence, everyone would have an incentive to play evil which would be bad for the game.

[dunklezhan]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=287337
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=183838
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=274179

there are others, I just stopped bothering to look.

This is not a criticism that you've started another thread to ask for this - clearly there is demand amongst some players.

While Eberron is a setting unusually suited to Evil alignments (half the **** NPCs of the so called 'good' factions in the sourcebooks are neutral or lawful evil for instance, I'm lookin' at you house P), I'm firmly in the 'no' camp till DDO actually makes some strides to actually support roleplayers in some form or other generally*

I thought though, perhaps it might be worth the OP reading some of those threads so they can see the reasoning/depth of feeling about it.

Buried in one of those threads is probably a link to the thread with a link to the ancient thread with a link to a Dev commenting on why they didn't include evil alignments in the first place, too.



*client-toggleable speech bubbles and animations when using /say, better control over look and feel of items and what displays on your character, perhaps even a 'roleplayers kit' which allows creation of non-equippable items such as player-written books or notes, trinkets and such which have no game effect at all but could be used to run plot, with dedicated bag space which can only be used for such fluff items, the list goes on - RP is what you make it but compared to WoW or LOTRO, DDO's game engine is practically an active discouragement.

[Nysrock]

Being unable to play a lawful good character as lawful good actually shows a lack of imagination. In general, it is very easy to play an evil character, just be a selfish pita. Playing a lawful good character on the other hand is actually a challenge.

Playing a character by his alignment shows imagination, not the opposite.

.

I was using that as an example of how you could "roleplay" an evil character using our current limitations. Since we can't actually pick Evil as an alignment when you make a character then your only other option is to roleplay him how you want to be.

I used the Lawful Good paladin as an example because a Lawful Evil one would be somewhat similar but on the opposite side of the scale.

Lawful Good

Lawful Good is known as the "Saintly" or "Crusader" alignment. A Lawful Good character typically acts with compassion, and always with honor and a sense of duty. A Lawful Good nation would consist of a well-organized government that works for the benefit of its citizens. Lawful Good characters include righteous knights, paladins, and most dwarves. Lawful Good creatures include the noble golden dragons. Lawful Good outsiders are known as Archons.

Lawful Good characters, especially paladins, may sometimes find themselves faced with the dilemma of whether to obey law or good when the two conflict—for example, upholding a sworn oath when it would lead innocents to come to harm—or conflicts between two orders, such as between their religious law and the law of the local ruler.

In the Complete Scoundrel sourcebook Batman, **** Tracy and Indiana Jones are cited as examples of lawful good characters.

Lawful Evil

Lawful Evil is referred to as the "Dominator" or "Diabolic" alignment. Characters of this alignment see a well-ordered system as being easier to exploit, and show a combination of desirable and undesirable traits; while they usually obey their superiors and keep their word, they care nothing for the rights and freedoms of other individuals and are not averse to twisting the rules to work in their favor. Examples of this alignment include tyrants, devils, undiscriminating mercenary types who have a strict code of conduct, and loyal soldiers who enjoy the act of killing.

Like Lawful Good Paladins, Lawful Evil characters may sometimes find themselves faced with the dilemma of whether to obey law or evil when the two conflict. However, their issues with Law versus Evil are more concerned with "Will I get caught?" versus "How does this benefit me?"

Boba Fett of Star Wars, and X-Men's Magneto are cited examples of Lawful Evil characters.[7] The Lawful Evil outsiders are known as Baatezu (

[mystafyi]

this thread is so full of win. to top it off i am even eating popcorn.

[Nysrock]

this thread is so full of win. to top it off i am even eating popcorn.

Well share some please. It gets lonely sitting in a station alone at night.

[Brennie]

No.

As has been pointed out, this has been brought up many times before. And always with the same response - the Devs consciously decided that player characters shoudl not be evil. Why?

• Evil characters need evil motivations. This would cause conflict with 90% of quest fluff, which is designed around a semi-altruistic character mindset.

• "My character is evil" would be justification for too much griefing.

• Evil characters would be at a gameplay disadvantage, lacking access to two of the best weapon effects - Holy and pure good. Unholy is considered one of the worst weapon effects in the game, and Pure Evil doesn't even exist.

Essentially, Evil characters simply do not fit in the the group-centric, hero-based vision of DDO.

[Nysrock]

No.

As has been pointed out, this has been brought up many times before. And always with the same response - the Devs consciously decided that player characters shoudl not be evil. Why?

• Evil characters need evil motivations. This would cause conflict with 90% of quest fluff, which is designed around a semi-altruistic character mindset.

• "My character is evil" would be justification for too much griefing.

• Evil characters would be at a gameplay disadvantage, lacking access to two of the best weapon effects - Holy and pure good. Unholy is considered one of the worst weapon effects in the game, and Pure Evil doesn't even exist.

Essentially, Evil characters simply do not fit in the the group-centric, hero-based vision of DDO.

I agree 100% with what you said. My only argument was others trying to pidgeonhole those who wanted to play evil characters and how people could roleplay anything they want.

[dennisck2]

I can't say your moral relativity should be thrust upon everyone else.

If you can't even see that there needs to be Evil to balance Good, then you're taking the worst lesson that (most) religions offer their congregants.

Games should never be a platform to uphold one mindset over another.

I don't agree with most PvP suggestions, but that doesn't mean I don't see how they work elsewhere.


You don't have to play as an alignment you have a moral objection to, which is your prerogative.

But you shouldn't try and force your morality upon another because they might want to take a break and add a little chaos to their normally objective riddled goodly characters lives.

It's exactly like the internet or library... Nobody is forcing you to read/act in any way you might find offensive.

If you do find it offensive, why were you looking at it in the first place?

(and /agreed with ainmosni)

+1. It's a GD game

[wax_on_wax_off]

Not really.

If a person's mind is filled with good things, he is genuinely a good person no matter he shows them or not.

On the other hand, if a people’s minds are full of bad thoughts, he is truly a bad person no matter he shows them or not.

Yes, I'm sure that a persons actions do not define them as a person. I mean, Hitler had the best of intentions after all ...

So? Being a cop doesn't definitely being a good person.

Just like I said, one's thought and behavior tell what kind of person he is.

May not make him a good person but it does make him a lawful person (which was what he said). Unless you are suggesting that he could be corrupt?

[Norean]

Here's a clip about being evil aligned from a little known movie called Vampire in Brooklyn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_vlLKA6xeU

[ka0t1c1sm]

On the other hand, if a people’s minds are full of bad thoughts, he is truly a bad person no matter he shows them or not.

There really isn't enough crowbars, blowtorches, and dynamite in the world to open that closed mind is there?

[NovaNZ]

LOL - IBTL.

(hmm ... I wonder if that was an evil or chaotic thought? Pehaps both?

Nysrock - let us dwarfs retire to consider this over ale

[Nysrock]

LOL - IBTL.

(hmm ... I wonder if that was an evil or chaotic thought? Pehaps both?

Nysrock - let us dwarfs retire to consider this over ale

Best idea I seen in this thread yet!


First ten rounds are on me.

[Chrasch]

LOL - IBTL.

(hmm ... I wonder if that was an evil or chaotic thought? Pehaps both?

Nysrock - let us dwarfs retire to consider this over ale

Though I am Elf I too will join you for some Ale. This psycho zealot's rantings have made me sick. He basically said that if I think really nice good thoughts at all times I can go and start cutting people's throats.

[Satinavian]

[*]Evil characters need evil motivations. This would cause conflict with 90% of quest fluff, which is designed around a semi-altruistic character mindset.

Well, in the most quests the motivation is either mercenarylike or guided by stpping some danger threatening not only innocents, but also the PCs. Nothing being too far streched for for evil characters to participate. And who reads them anyway ?

But yes, quests only for good or only for evil toons (like against good enemies) might be a problem

[*]"My character is evil" would be justification for too much griefing.

I personally do not believe it. We have already no impact of alignment to behavior (a LG fighter is not played different from a TN on), we wouldn't have it afterwards.

[*]Evil characters would be at a gameplay disadvantage, lacking access to two of the best weapon effects - Holy and pure good. Unholy is considered one of the worst weapon effects in the game, and Pure Evil doesn't even exist.

This is the most important point. People do not care about mechanical alignment for roleplaying. But they do care about alignment and usability of gear, be it pure good or litany and they do care about alignment based extradamage they receive.

Oh and how much i would like to see pg/holy/holyburst nerved down to say law or chaos based attributes. They are simply far to powerfull at the moment. There shouldn't be "best choices". If they need to introduce evil alignment and change quests/items to make all alignments equivalent powerfull, so i am all for it. Some elemental- or animal based new high-level raid would be also welcome, even more some lawfull or chaotic but not evil themed challanging questline.

[Talias006]

Best idea I seen in this thread yet!


First ten rounds are on me.

D'oh. I'm a recovering alchemical-holic, so feel free to drink one for me.

And, lastly, /thread.

[UltraMonk2]

Well considering that this is a game and none of it is real then I see no problem with someone playing an evil character. Playacting evil is NOT being evil.

Most people do not know how to playact Evil, so all you would get is a whole bunch of people wanting to grief and cause trouble for the other players.

/not signed

We have no need for more inconsiderate jerks in DDO, we already have enough as it is. :-)