Stalwart Defender, looking for advice

[bigcrashzone]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 456
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 9
Will: 5

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 23                   27
Dexterity            14                 16                   16
Constitution         16                 18                   19
Intelligence         12                 14                   14
Wisdom                8                 10                   10
Charisma             14                 16                   16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                    14.5
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         3                     4
Diplomacy             2                     3
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     3
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            6                    46
Jump                  5                    31
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                1                     2
Spot                 -1                     0
Swim                  3                     8
Tumble                3                     9.5
Use Magic Device      4                    14.5

{\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Epic Gloves of the Claw \par Epic Bracers of the Claw \par Tharne's Goggles \par Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Goggles of Lightning \par Cinder's Band \par Ring of the Ravager \par Encrusted Ring \par Colethenis's Belt \par Knost's Belt \par Epic Envenomed Cloak \par Epic Brawn's Spirits \par Stalwart Necklace \par Epic Cavalry Plate \par Epic Boots of Corrosion \par Levik's Defender \par Epic Sword of Shadow \par Epic Helm of Frost \par Epic Boots of Corrosion \par Light and Darkness \par Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Weave Cloak  of Lightning \par Epic Chimera's Crown \par Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Goggles of Air \par  \par Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Berserker's Fury


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Student of the Sword


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Sentinel


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Sentinel
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Greatsword Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation II
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation III
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation IV
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

I'm new to tanks, so I'm just looking for some general advice, it's also so I can show it to some guildies and friends on my server

23base + 6 stalwart + 4 dragonmark enhancements + 4 intim enhancements + 2 barb PL + 2 fighter PL + 2 coinlord favor + 6 cha mod + 20 item + 5 claw gloves + 2 good luck + 2 dragonmark feat = 78 + 4 GH + 1yugo + 1ship = 84 intimidate

AC I'm still working on Reizal, need to work out the sources, still thinking about pieces of gear I could use. I'll just wait till I can pick your brain a little bit later.

Goggles: Tharnes//Lit2 hp goggles
Armor: Epic Cavalry Plate
Bracers: Bracers of the Claw
Boots: Boots of Corrosion
Gloves: Gloves of the Claw
Rings: Cinders Band//Ravagers//Encrusted
Belt: Ravager or Frenzied set
Cloak: Envenomed
Trinket: Epic Brawns Spirits
Necklace: Stalwart Necklace
Helm: Helm of Frost
Shield: Leviks
Weapon: Chimera's Fang, E sos, if I can ever get it >.<

[Such755]

Nothing to see here, move along.

[Vissarion]

If you raised the dexterity to 14 just for the extra AC, then I am pretty sure that the highest possible dex bonus on a heavy armor is 4, in that case 18 dexterity will be enough - 10+2 tome+6 item will cover it. Put those points into con and \ or strength.

As for the skills, I'd focus on Intimidate, balance and UMD (Only if you're sure you can get it high enough to matter, that is), in which case 10 int is also enough (Fighters get 2 base skill points + extra from those 2 points in int. +2 int tome = 1 more skill = total of 4 skills to raise), again put those points either into con or strength.

I imagine he'd probably use the Epic Calvary Plate, which can get to 8 or 9 MDB with armor mastery/slotted nimbleness/Stalwart III.

[Sjiggie]

After a quick look over it:

How high will your intim/ac be? Might be best to put a breakdown in there for it too have some numbers.

I don't know if you need the fighter intim IV and deneith intim IV. Might be better to drop those and raise human versatility to IV to make use of that double haste and damageboost.

Also are you planning on picking up the Chimera's Fang/Crown for synergy with the dragonmarks you took? Might be worth looking into...

What equipment are you planning to use? Its hard to read in the character planner

Might be able to give some more feedback if you put some more details into the OP.

Reizal

[Dragaer]

If you raised the dexterity to 14 just for the extra AC, then I am pretty sure that the highest possible dex bonus on a heavy armor is 4, in that case 18 dexterity will be enough - 10+2 tome+6 item will cover it. Put those points into con and \ or strength.
.

This is incorrect. A 1st life Stalwart wearing Dragontouch (which has a +1 MDB for everyone else) from reavers can achieve a +7 MDB

[Musouka]

This build looks very similar to what I am making... which has a sustainable 80ish AC, dependant on +3 Dodge or not, which isn't impossible to get, but maybe not right away. Then fully raid buffed it should be in the 90s, but that's ship buffs + bard + other magical buffs. Also my build is giving up 2 levels of fighter for paladin to get an extra umph for the saves. Should get an extra +6 to saves.


I have a question about a tank build using the newly changed prestiges. Is it better to go for a good AC and still a GOOD HP, or is it better to go for full on HP and not so good AC? I mean, the sacrifice is a few points into dex vs. con.

[Dilbon]

This is incorrect. A 1st life Stalwart wearing Dragonplate (which has a +1 MDB for everyone else) from reavers can achieve a +7 MDB

+7 dex AC bonus is a good aim as it's the maximum you can have when holding a mithral tower shield (without tower shield enhancements).

Any epic heavy armour will actually do, if you slot nimbleness in the blue slot.

1 + 2 nimbleness + 2 stalwart + 2 enhancements (or Daggertooth belt if you happen to have a free belt slot).

[Krago]

3 Toughness feats? You had nothing else to spend your feats on?
I think you can lose at least 1 Toughness for something better.

With a Cha at 14 + 2 Tome +6 Item nets you 22 Cha, with Force or Personality could net you +6 Will saves.

Maybe take Skill Focus UMD to take it to 17 and which extra bonus from Cha can net you the magic 20 mark for items.

Improved Trip would be great too since you have CE, along with Fighter PL.

[Noelemahc]

I didn't really go over build, but told you I'd make up a list of feats and post it:

1 - Toughness
1h - Least Dragonmark
1f - THF

2f - Weapon Focus

3 - Barb Past Life

4f - Weapon Specialization

6 - Improved Two Handed Fighting
6f - Power Attack

8f - Improved Crit

9 - Fighter Past Life

10f - Combat Expertise

12 - Lesser Dragonmark
12f - Greater Two Handed Fighting

14f - Greater Weapon Specialization

15 - Dodge

16f - Shield Mastery

18 - Greater Dragonmark
18f - Improved Shield Bash

20f - Improved Shield Mastery


If you don't want to take Dodge you can always replace it for another Toughness. That's probably how I'd do it. The feats in that order should make leveling up a bit easier since dps feats are front loaded, but the feats you need to qualify for stalwart are at the level you need them. By 18 you should be a full blown raid tank easily.

There is always the 18/2 Fighter/whatever (monk, rogue, paladin) as well in addition to the pure 20, but pure 20 will give you more dps. Really it's just whatever you want. At quick glance enhancements look ok, but will work on that later. That's not such a big deal since they can be swapped whenever. The list of feats should be fine though.

[Sjiggie]

Here's the ac breakdown we where talking about with the intended gear you intend to use. You could add another 3 by getting a chattering ring from Titan.

This is with your levik's and Chimera's Fang

10 Base
16 Armor
7 Dex
9 Shield
4 natural
3 Stalwart Defender
2 Stalwart ToD Set
5 Protection
4 Stance
4 Insight
1 Alchemical Armor Ritual
1 Alchemical Shield Ritual
1 Dodge feat
3 Profane (3 pc Abishai)

70 unbuffed power attack on

5 Combat Expertise

75 Combat Expertise on

1 Haste
2 Recitation
4 bard
1 Ranger Barkskin

83 Raid Buffed

[Feithlin]

Feats worth considering instead of your toughness feats (with the +20% HP from SD stance, they're less of a necessity):

* Greater Weapon specialization (doesn't require gWF) for +2 to damage.
* BS proficiency: not needed for eFang since you have the dragonmarks, but useful if you ever use another BS (like a +5 holy burst adam BS of greater construct bane for example).

If you were going for max AC (which doesn't seem the case, given the absence of +1/+2/+3 dodge bonuses), you could also consider the Dodge feat. It's an easy +1, when every plus is hard to get at the highest end of the AC spectrum.
*Edit: Just noticed Sjiggie's post. So if you want a higher AC, try to include the Dodge feat, the Chattering ring (+3 dodge), a +2 dodge source (probably bracers) and a +1 dodge source if possible (can't think of any other room than trinket). Note that by using a crafted +5 xxx Mithral tower shield of Sup. stability, you would benefit from +6 deflection instead of +5.

Could you give a detail of your saves? This may be the weak point of the build (which could be compensated by splashing 2 pal levels for example, at the cost of capstone and alignment though).

[Caliban]

1 Alchemical Armor Ritual
1 Alchemical Shield Ritual
1 Dodge feat

Last I checked, these were all doge bonuses, and dodge bonuses of the same level don't stack. (i.e. two +1 dodge bonuses will not stack, but a +1 dodge and a +2 dodge will stack.)

http://ddowiki.com/page/Dodge_bonus

Oops, looks like the alchemical rituals will stack, according to the note at the bottom of the wiki page:

"Identical magnitude dodge bonuses from treasure do not stack in DDO. (With the exception of the Eldritch Ritual Shield/Armor improvements, when we renamed those to "Dodge". We'll rename those yet again to be clearer that those stack with everything but themselves.) This is an intentional deviation from the basic D&D rules." - developer Eladrin

[Astraghal]

I'm not sure if the DPS loss from not having Seeker is made up elsewhere.

[Feithlin]

Last I checked, these were all doge bonuses, and dodge bonuses of the same level don't stack. (i.e. two +1 dodge bonuses will not stack, but a +1 dodge and a +2 dodge will stack.)

http://ddowiki.com/page/Dodge_bonus

Oops, looks like the alchemical rituals will stack, according to the note at the bottom of the wiki page:

Yep, all 3 stack.

[jejeba86]

Also my build is giving up 2 levels of fighter for paladin to get an extra umph for the saves. Should get an extra +6 to saves.

+6 only from charisma modifier or there is something else?

[SensaiRyu]

[snip]
Also my build is giving up 2 levels of fighter for paladin to get an extra umph for the saves. Should get an extra +6 to saves.
[snip]

Could go HElf and take pally dilly's. I did, and took force of personality for cha mod to will saves.

I never took combat expertise. And I'm unsure at the moment if I can take it on my build.

OP Improved shield bash and mastery aren't really worth taking, imo. I've come to enjoy cleave/great cleave and I took both weapon specialization feats for extra dmg.

I will probably swap out my one of my other feats for improved sunder as its now become useful.

[james101890]

3 Toughness feats? You had nothing else to spend your feats on?
I think you can lose at least 1 Toughness for something better.

With a Cha at 14 + 2 Tome +6 Item nets you 22 Cha, with Force or Personality could net you +6 Will saves.

Maybe take Skill Focus UMD to take it to 17 and which extra bonus from Cha can net you the magic 20 mark for items.

Improved Trip would be great too since you have CE, along with Fighter PL.

I KNOW RIGHT force of personality is GREAT for a tanks!
seeing as how buff negate almost everything u need a will save for AND all those pesky raid bosses throw out so many things u need will saves, y WOULDNT take FOP!
BRILLIANT!

AND DUH! improved trip would be awesome for all the raid bosses u would be using it on. cuz when they are knocked down they arnt hitting u and when they arnt hitting u, u take no damage!
THATS JUST PURE GENIUS RIGHT THERE!!!

SKILL FOCUS UMD?! WHY DIDNT I THINK OF THAT! thats way better for a tank than more hp. all thsoe items he named ALL have a 20 umd needed. its so silly that he didnt plan for that.

YOU, my friend, are a AMAZING. u have though of things that are LIGHT YEARS AHEAD of us all.
YOU ARE A CREDIT TO YOUR RACE!

-_-

[Mercureal]

I'm new to tanks, so I'm just looking for some general advice, it's also so I can show it to some guildies and friends on my server

23base + 6 stalwart + 4 dragonmark enhancements + 4 intim enhancements + 2 barb PL + 2 fighter PL + 2 coinlord favor + 6 cha mod + 20 item + 5 claw gloves + 2 good luck + 2 dragonmark feat = 78 + 4 GH + 1yugo + 1ship = 84 intimidate

AC I'm still working on Reizal, need to work out the sources, still thinking about pieces of gear I could use. I'll just wait till I can pick your brain a little bit later.

Goggles: Tharnes//Lit2 hp goggles
Armor: Epic Cavalry Plate
Bracers: Bracers of the Claw
Boots: Boots of Corrosion
Gloves: Gloves of the Claw
Rings: Cinders Band//Ravagers//Encrusted
Belt: Ravager or Frenzied set
Cloak: Envenomed
Trinket: Epic Brawns Spirits
Necklace: Stalwart Necklace
Helm: Helm of Frost
Shield: Leviks
Weapon: Chimera's Fang, E sos, if I can ever get it >.<

I haven't tanked at end game yet, so I can't offer expert commentary, but your choices look fairly solid. I have a few points/recommendations:

- half-points in skills aren't counted, so you can reallocate a few points in Balance, Tumble and UMD

- try to fit in at least one more tier of human recovery, though it looks like you're pretty tight with AP. I think you could drop the highest tiers of your Intimidation enhancements and be okay. Maybe Haste Boost IV (which is pretty expensive for 5% more attack speed)?

- go with the Frenzied Berserker belt, unless you're slotting the Greater False Life somewhere else

- *if* you want to play around with some other gear configurations (and I'm not saying that you have to), the Epic Grim's Bracelet gives +3 Dodge AC and +7 Strength in the neck spot, and the upgraded Head of Good Fortune in the new update gives +2 Dodge AC

[Skull_49]

once i cap my fighter my main mrskull i will create a thread of his build but for now i would suggest that you go 18ftr/2monk if you want an amazing tank unless your doing s/b for nostalgia or other reasons...
as a horc 18ftr/2monk you can get 80-90 ac and 7-900hp with PA on TWF with khopeshes or w/e you please ....
ofc only with the best gear ...