Hate being level 20 cleric

[ainmosni]

XP bonus doesn't seem to be a factor, CC only has one group up. Looks like people are running what they consider a good time. Not a single epic in the lfm, guess they don't qualify.

far as xp is concerned, look how short the scroll bar is. these you see are the top 7, the other 20 or so lfm's were mostly xp runs. and you only see one CC group because CC wasnt open at the time, no need for an lfm to collect map pieces.

not a single lfm for epics because.... well, no one had an lfm for an epic quest at the time lol. people still run them. in fact, my bard was in house D at the time because i joined a pug Tide Turns off an lfm before logging out.

endgame's not dead. epic/elite raids are no longer for casual players.

that's all u11 did to quests. i don't see why people think it somehow aligned the moons in such a fashion that they're no longer able to pull tharne's goggles from VOD or buy greensteel blanks from the AH anymore.

[countfitz]

If you need to down 20 or 30 sp pots just to finish an epic, then you (or your party) are doing something wrong.

As for the blind invites there is tons of fun to be had with those. Accept, then enter and wait till they engage the first group of mobs to inform them that you only dps and do not heal, or enter first and set it to casual instead of epic, or enter a different quest so they can't kick you and then play bad music over your mic loud or....

There's reallly a ton of ways to have fun with those blind invites.

Or you could accept the invite, play poorly, say you need sp pots, heal scrolls, etc. take them from people, then start playing well. I mean, if they're desperate enough for that...

But for real, I kinda disagree with the OP for this reason: my main is a "battle cleric" 1 level fighter, who in the past was "discriminated" against (not so much on Thelanis, but it happens) but I fully expect to not only be "allowed" in any party but probably start getting blind invites. So that's nice, being so needed you can do whatever you want.

[Siro]

endgame's not dead. epic/elite raids are no longer for casual players.

That's an oxymoron for the casual player. The engame IS dead if 'epic/elite raids are no longer for casual players', as you put it. As much as you might not like it, those casual players are what keep the game afloat. When they stop having fun, you'll stop having a game to have fun in.

Ultimately nothing has really changed for you. You're running the same content you were happy to run before. So nothing will change for you if changes are made, at some point, that made the current endgame accessible for casual players.

[Seamonkeysix]

Come to the dark side and roll an FvS. All your SP are belong to us!

[ainmosni]

That's an oxymoron for the casual player. The engame IS dead if 'epic/elite raids are no longer for casual players', as you put it. As much as you might not like it, those casual players are what keep the game afloat. When they stop having fun, you'll stop having a game to have fun in.

Ultimately nothing has really changed for you. You're running the same content you were happy to run before. So nothing will change for you if changes are made, at some point, that made the current endgame accessible for casual players.

i think epic raids should be puggable.

i do not think epic raids should be completable by bad players with no gear.

maybe i have a different opinion than some, but why have all the crazy op gear and builds and toons available in the game if the raids can be completed by a party full of people who spent all of a week pulling gear from shroud chests to wear to raids?

there's a fine line. epic/elite raids should not be exclusive to the best of the best. but the best of the best should shine in these raids, the middle of the pack masses that account for a large portion of people who actually care about the changes u11 brought should be able to complete (even if it's a bit rough sometimes), and the lower end players who put no thought into their build or time gearing their toons should be absolutely murdered in epic/elite raids.

[Satinavian]

@ ainmosni

just looked on khyber :


https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0ByX...MWIxNWEx&hl=de

and we are nearer to peak time than my usual playing time now. And i always thought, Khyber was the most populated server with a very active pug-scene.

[simo0208]

Simple fix:

Click on the party icon that you use to find a pug.
Click over to the "who" portion
Click the box that says anonymous

Win

[LOOON375]

Me and my guild (static group of 3 accounts) had just recently started getting into epics. We have not tried an epic since the update and will probably leave them alone.

To much BS involved in pugging epic content anymore. "you don't have enough HP/SP or you don't have epic gear" blan blah blah. While I can point to an extent at the update, I can also point at some of the folks for doing some of the BS they do as a result of the update.

I PUG a lot and host and lead shrouds on Argo, but I will leave epics alone for a while. Too much BS **** involved.

[zeonardo]

I come to DDO to have fun, not waste time and money because a few dozen losers in mom and dad's basement feel the game isn't hard enough. That is what life is for, to challenge yourself.

Ditto.

Buff DDO Bosses, but nerf life too!! =D

[alexthegood]

LOL, the common response of "they are complete-able...... with a guild or static group" is awesome.

So, don't make new friends or try to do these without knowing exactly who is with you. Sounds like a solid business plan for a game company.

For those who keep saying "Epic is supposed to be hard" and "Only 5% should be able to complete epic", how about you try something truly hard, maybe life?

I come to DDO to have fun, not waste time and money because a few dozen losers in mom and dad's basement feel the game isn't hard enough. That is what life is for, to challenge yourself.

well said.

[azrael4h]

Check the LFM postings at any time of day. The idea that less only 1% of the players actually run any epics is just rediculous.

Going by LFMs is a faulty way to do it, and if I did, then I would be more accurate to say that far less than 1% runs epics. Hitting the LFMs, particularly since U11, has shown a drastic decrease in epic pugs, and even normal raiding. LFM panel is irrelevant, I'd rather go by a dev's post than someone who thinks that anyone who disagrees with the current direction the game is headed must desire everything to be the same as on casual mode.

At this point this is comparable to Godwin's Law; according to some people anyone who disagrees with the hp and sp of characters being visible to all must have 6 CON wizards with no fort. Anyone who disagrees with rebalancing level 10-16 raids to those who have multiple TR lives, multiple pieces of epic gear and greensteel must must want to have everything casual-mode, pay to win, instant all good loot and push "awesome button" to complete all epics. I must use 100's of sp pots to complete everything, even if I'm on a monk, because YOU say so.

For the record, Since U11, I have seen 0 VoNs, 2 DQ's (was in both of them), 0 Reaver's Fates, 1 Abbot, 1 Titan (was shocked, actually)1 VoD, 0 HoX, 3 ToD (all three invited my FvS as well), 0 LoB, 0 MA, 8 or 9 Shrouds.

This is regardless of difficulty level; I don't always check what it is, since some like HoX I don't need anything out of, and others I'm very picky about joining, like ToD. Or Titan, which I never bothered to flag for as the flagging area is a mind-numbing boring mess, and Abbot, which has a boring long *** grind to flag for, running the same boring quests over and over for sigil pieces that never drop.

Pre U11 I saw more DQ runs alone than that. I got more ToD invites a hour on my FvS; most of the time I had to respond with "sorry, on timer". LoB and MA is only understandable in that those are new raids, and many people don't have the pack or aren't flagged yet; I have only spent maybe 20 mins in there myself. Probably won't bother with them on my FvS since I was planning on a TR, and my sorc only if my guildies all have the pack and want to run it with their TRs.

Whats bad, is the raids I have hit, only one Shroud run filled; the rest have shortmanned, as few as 3 in a DQ run. I was on a lowbie last night, and saw the one VoD sit there for a couple of hours. I don't know if it ran. While pre U11 it was a raid that I found few wanted to run for whatever reason, and saw most groups collapse long before stepping off the ledge into the Sub, that's still ridiculous.

Check the number of 1st level players in the Who screen.
Check the number of 2nd level players in the Who screen.
Check the number of 10th level players in the Who screen.
Check the number of 20th level players in the Who screen.

Which level has the most players logged in?

Irrelevant. Drug-induced hallucinations aside, Being at any particular level range doesn't mean that a person will be playing at any particular level range of quests. My FvS is 20, yet the few times I log in now is farming Shroud for mats, or vale quests for mats; 16-17 range. Occasionally I'll hit other stuff like Tor for scales, or so on and so forth, depending on what I feel like farming at the time and how much time I have available. Basically no different than my Sorc, who just hit 18. Except I don't run for xp.

In addition, many people have more than one character; or TRs. I have characters at 3, 5, 8, 9, 14, 18, and 20 right now. One guildy has characters ranging from 4, to 20, on 5 different servers. Someone logging in at 20 may just be on to troll the AH or check their bank, then are hitting some other level character. Others are crafting for hours. My entire guild spends a half hour during out regular session doing this; swapping character to character, trading gear we found during the week, and non-quest related things. Heck, for that matter I'm liable to take either my Sorc (air savant) or FvS out and wing around town, seeing where I can climb to, just for the fun of it.

To top it off, Epic is about as engaging as watching paint dry. I only run epics for tokens for free TRing, and I have to have a good movie on to watch instead, or a good book to read, before I'll run one. High hps and saves just drag out the same old content even longer without adding any real challenge. About the only thing I can claim for it is occasionally I get a scroll or shard or whatever and someone else wants it, and I help someone alleviate the immensely boring grind. Few people run epics because epics are BORING. They suck! Grind is not challenging, Grind is boring. Grind takes too much time when I actually have this thing called a job, and spend 13 hours a day there.

Lots of players hit the level cap. Lots of players run epic quests. Most of the epic quests aren't any different than they were before U11. There is plenty of content available for people who find epic Lord of Blades too difficult. There is plenty of content available for people who don't want to suck down a pot or two in eVoN6.


Isn't it enough that you have 280+ quests and raids available to you for easy completions? You want that last four or five to be easy too? You can't even leave a couple of quests or raids as challenges for players to aspire to?

Hitting the level cap doesn't mean hitting epics; this is the basis of your entire argument, and the falsehood of it; There is a lot to do in DDO that is superior to running epics. Deleting geared characters and starting from scratch on a 28 pointer, for example, is better than playing epics. It also provides much greater challenge.
Stabbing myself in the gut and twisting the blade, is also more enjoyable than DDO's "epics". Getting shot in the spine and being paralyzed from the waist down is better than epic. Do you get the picture?

Geonis had a better answer, and one that won't get me modded:

I come to DDO to have fun, not waste time and money because a few dozen losers in mom and dad's basement feel the game isn't hard enough. That is what life is for, to challenge yourself.

*EDIT* As of 5:53pm CST, Khyber, there is one Shroud group, 1 DQ flagging group (10-20!) 1 Genesis, 1 Prey, and 1 Assault on Stormreach. The other two level 20 groups are CC. Prey isn't hardly 'end game' or challenging, so that leaves only Genesis Point as the only high end challenging quest being run, and no raids.

[Rdonuno]

splash 1 level of fighter. You'll lose the capstone but it won't affect your healing much. And it'll scare away most of the random invites.

[fuzzy1guy]

And here we have a primetime. (7pm) on a friday look at thelanis.




As a 20 i don't see jack going on.

This is way down from 6 months ago by far.

This is way down from even the last cove event.

[muffinlad]

Like the OP, I won't heal Epic Pugs. To make sure that I stuck to my guns, I joined an Epic Pug, watched it derail fairly quickly, and as I had my 20 Shroud already done, I went and immediately TR'd so I would not even have to deal with being asked for some time.

Normally, I used to have 6-8 toon's parked at 20 so I could join in to various Epic quests. I think I have a total of two scrolls, but it was mostly to hang out on some challenging end level content. The level of drama pretty much sold me on TRing, and dropping most of my Epic adventures. Further, as I don't plan on staying at level 20 for very long on any toon, my actual use/need for Epic's outside of the Welfare Epic's I can get from CC or Mabar is close to zero.

My problem with End Content, and End rewards is so deep, I can honestly imagine never running any PUG epic ever again. I don't let it stop me from enjoying the game at all, I just play differently than others might.

My suggestions to the Dev's would be that if they were going to keep the current difficulty level, they need to change the end rewards from the Seal, stone and Scroll method to a more streamlined choice after number of victories model that many of the lower level quests have.

Regards,

muffinthoughts

[Hafeal]

this has to be quote of the Month. +1 TOO true.

LOL, the common response of "they are complete-able...... with a guild or static group" is awesome.

So, don't make new friends or try to do these without knowing exactly who is with you. Sounds like a solid business plan for a game company.

For those who keep saying "Epic is supposed to be hard" and "Only 5% should be able to complete epic", how about you try something truly hard, maybe life?

I come to DDO to have fun, not waste time and money because a few dozen losers in mom and dad's basement feel the game isn't hard enough. That is what life is for, to challenge yourself.

[Envoi]

It's not only that you don't see any lfms for eChronoscope anymore (last one i saw was half a month ago, but granted, don't play much at peak times), you now even rarely see lfms for easy P&D epic quests and also far less for VoD and Hound.

Who would run VoD or Hound anymore? You can just buy the best loot from there off the store....

The game is undergoing a change of attitude. It's moving from a casual inclusive game to an elitist exclusive game. If you aren't sure person X is up to snuff, it's not worth the chance of failure to give them a chance to prove themselves. As this change takes over the game, you'll see less and less PUGs in general for everything.

[ainmosni]

idk

[MrWicae]

Possible solution to the new difficulty. Sell SP Pots at NPC's. Issue solved....

[Docgunthor]

My level 20 cleric(he is my first toon and I consider him my main toon). It seems every time I get on him I am getting blind invites and tells of people who are telling me that they need a cleric for their group. It has gotten so bad that people are trying to hire me lol. My cleric isnt the best, but he has some epic equipment and has good HP and SP. But really, I am not going to be downing 20 to 30 SP pots just to finish an epic. I am not even playing my other level 20 toons just for this problem.

I have now not played my cleric but 3 times since update 11 and really, I hate getting on him just because of the invites and how long it takes to finish epics and raids. If DDO can just please reconsider that the increase in HP and fort has now made the game extremely hard to play any end game content unless you have tons of pots or a fully geared toon with a fully geared guild behind them. Its stopped being fun to play a class that I love. I am still working on other classes that need to get to 20, but now I am thinking I am going to have to TR my cleric when I really didnt want to.

I have to agree with several posters. Docgunthor is my first toon that I didn't TR as soon as i could. I'm not know as a epic healer by no means and not a "leet" player but you controll how much resorces you use and if you are h3ll bendt on finishing a quest and willing to use 30+ pots thats on you. I have the most pots atm and I have 15. I never buy them I'll take as rewards, and donations but I'm not gonna burn TP or Plat to help others grind and if the blind invite is for something I don't want to run I say not interested and leave.

My 2 cp...

Docgunthor

[azrael4h]

Possible solution to the new difficulty. Sell SP Pots at NPC's. Issue solved....

NO. Store pots are bad enough as it is, those have people demanding others use dozens of pots to account for their bad playing. I'd rather remove store pots, and cut the drop rates of majors.