cleric vs cleric/monk

[Firewall]

I play a TR'ed 18/2 FvS/Monk caster build (first life: pure Cleric) which is a lot of fun. Basically the survivability and is even better than that of a Clonk (FvS has a better Reflex Save which goes nicely with Evasion and has the stacking elemental resists). In addition you do not have to worry about spellpoints and you even get wings and the full 3 Tiers of the PrE when they are out. Of course you have fewer spells available but that is not an issue with the current choice of spells. The other downside is that you have to craft or buy special weapons to be able to run around centered (i have 2 greensteel kamas and a SupPotVI Kama). I can only advise you to try it.

Fire

[Enoach]

In the end it comes down to playstyle...

With a monk splash to gain the benefits of stances means you have to be centered. If you plan to go this route begin looking for gear that will allow this. Items that are important for Cleric/FvS are devotion/arder as they boost our most sought after ability Healing.

Speaking as one that has enjoyed 2 full lives as a cleric and is in the process of completing a 3rd Cleric Life...
But again, this is my playstyle.


While some feel the Cleric Capstone is not worth it, I have found it to be a better tool then Death Pact for these reasons

• Castable on Self or Party Member
• As a Radiant Servant Turn Regenerates Faster than the Time Limit making this castable as long as you have Turns
• You don't sacrifice 2 points of Con AKA 20 HP at Cap on an Insurance Policy
• Does not use Spell Points

Cleric Active Past Life Feat is extreamely useful even at higher levels and it is only 5 Casts
Reasons

• Metamagic of Maximize and Empower Healing Applied they can average 200+ (More on a Crit)
• Spell like ability can be cast even in Anti-Magic Fields
• Do not share timer with spells
• They make great personal heals during situations where concentration on a single person or the party warrants

On turning and use of turn undead other uses - when you dump Charisma on a cleric you are losing part of their power.

• Turning uses Charisma as part of its calculation
• Number of Turns is based off of how much charisma one has
• Access to Divine Might is based off of Base charisma
• Divine Cleansing II removes Curses - This can allow you to Heal and remove curses from a Tank and Increase their Fort Save for a few minutes
• Divine Healing - Works on WF and Flesh, has a greater distance then spells and can reach around corners

[mmofan]

Imo, you don't gain much from taking extend either. It may be useful a low levels, but 20 min is long enough is nearly all quests, and the short term buffs aren't that great for a pure cleric who won't fight much.
Personally, I'd replace it with heighten so you can have better DCs on spells like greater command or cometfall.

i thought heighten was pointless once you hit 20 as it cat raise it any higher or you already at the highest caster lvl

[FuzzyDuck81]

i thought heighten was pointless once you hit 20 as it cat raise it any higher or you already at the highest caster lvl

heighten raises any spell to be equivalent to the highest level you can cast.. therefore greater command (level 5) with heighten will be treated as a level 9 spell, granting a better chance to break through any spell resistance

[mmofan]

TR'ing a cleric doesn't do anything for you unless you just really hate undead.

i am TRing cause i screwed up my cleric early on and now i intend on fixing it and rebuilding it better

[mmofan]

heighten raises any spell to be equivalent to the highest level you can cast.. therefore greater command (level 5) with heighten will be treated as a level 9 spell, granting a better chance to break through any spell resistance

ok so it is good for making you lower lvlspells more useful

[krackythehoodedone]

Ive taken an 18/2 pretty much as far as i can go with three Tr's and full Epic Spec.

Ive gotten 605 Hp 2105 Sp and a 45 Reflex save. I gave up the AC mode as soon as i hit cap and started on Epics. However high 70's AC was easy to achieve

Most people are going to build their Clonks to be healing spec so i am taking that as done. A solo build is probably the only build that might differ.

You then have three choices to make because what a Clonk gives you is the ability to be a great Healer and something else. Those choices are 1,Offensive Caster (dp,bb.) 2, Dc focussed Spellcaster (CC,instakills) 3, Melee

If you try to add more than one extra area of expertise you cant hack it at endgame because you have to sacrifice things.

I chose Melee because i don't think the reduced SP gives you enough to both Offensive Spellcast and Heal effectively. If i was taking that route i would go with FVS everytime which someone already mentioned

Stunning is a popular choice but i went with Kamas because of the Stat Boosters i could build into GS.

I can mix it in any melee situation including epic. My DPS is ok (never gonna compare to a Barb). I wont ever be drawing aggro and on the contrary to a point someone raised earlier. Bringing Radiance into the Combat zone makes a massive difference especially in fights like E Von 6.

A combo of ur rad/heals,Mabar wraps,Redscale,Holy Burst Tod rings make you as deadly an Epic Undead destroyer as any other class

I'm pretty sure the 18/2 version is as effective a healer as a capped Cleric and has amazing survivability

So thats my experience however the true beauty of this build is it's flexibility. Under the heading Clonk in reality their are many differing builds all worthy of their own titles so much is the scope

[Jubylina]

It all depends what you want to do end game with your build. I have a TR1 build that i leveled to lvl 17 with 2 levels of monk(lvl1 and 9) for survivability purposes. I found though that solo healing post U11 was tough with the smaller spell point pool. I took out the monk levels, gained extra sp and was able to change to the cavalry plate that gives me almost constantly and extra 80hp (demon sheild and false life) to bump me up to a beafy 480hp cleric at lvl 17.

For me and my purposes (running with TR static group) the monk was fun to have in lower levels because i didn't have to be a dedicated healer - but now running higher level content i'm finding it more cumbersome than not.

My 2 cents worth! Enjoy either way!

[mmofan]

i was wondering how much the spell pen feat adds to you character i know it is + 2 but is that worth tradeing it for the power attack or stunning fist feat

[mmofan]

i was wondering how much the spell pen feat adds to you character i know it is + 2 but is that worth tradeing it for the power attack or stunning fist feat

i am deciding should i start as a monk or as a cleric. the cleric gets 1 more cleric feat but loses ether power attack or stunning fist. starting with monk i gain 8 extra skill points and can have both power attack and stunning fist but lose my spell pen feat.
OK i answered my own i guess the benefit of one over the other is i get slight more melee dps at the expense of some spell pen but with spell pen my spells do more dps to mobs with high AC

[painkiller3]

i am deciding should i start as a monk or as a cleric. the cleric gets 1 more cleric feat but loses ether power attack or stunning fist. starting with monk i gain 8 extra skill points and can have both power attack and stunning fist but lose my spell pen feat.
OK i answered my own i guess the benefit of one over the other is i get slight more melee dps at the expense of some spell pen but with spell pen my spells do more dps to mobs with high AC

I'm running a clonk and I would advise you to hold off monk levels until you achieve what you consider a "big deal" as a cleric e.g. Burst, raise dead, aura

If you take 3 monk levels early just keep in mind that at level 9 not only will you not be able to raise dead/divine punishment but You won't have cure critical or restoration even...

I'm asking a lot of the same questions you are with my build, and I decided that the aura was important to me so I took a monk level early and am holding off on my second monk until level 14...my clonk is aiming to be a durable healer, we'll see how it holds up

[mmofan]

If you take 3 monk levels early just keep in mind that at level 9 not only will you not be able to raise dead/divine punishment but You won't have cure critical or restoration even...

are you referring to character lvl 9 or my 9th lvl spells... i don't think that is how multi class works. its not that you lose what you would have gain at that specific lvl. for instance if i get a spell at cleric lvl 5 and on my fifth lvl i chose a monk that makes me a cleric 4 + monk 1 = a total lvl of 5 so at a total lvl of 6 i chose my fifth cleric lvl and gain the spell i would have gained at total lvl 5 had i not splashed because my cleric lvl would have been 5.

[Vyrn]

In your case 1 or 2 DCs depending on your gear.

/Facepalm. No. You gain one DC.

Lv9 Spells on a 18/2 Energy Drain, Implosion, Mass heal. Drop energy drain on a 17/3. You have enough lv9 spell slots to get evasion, do you really care about a summon?

Giving advice when you have literally no experience with what youre talking about must be great . Really, clonks are actually better than pure clerics as casters if you can get your SPen high enough, which is difficult but achievable with gear.

It's actually the other way around, if you build your clonk properly; as a matter of fact, clonks can technically achieve higher DC, since Ocean Stances improve Wisdom.

- 2 monk levels:
Pro: Evasion, 2 feats (Toughness + Stunning Fist, usually), better saves (+3 to all), Ocean Stance (+2 WIS and +2 to all saves), higher AC;
Con: lower Spell Penetration (caster level 18), only 3 lvl 9 spells instead of 5, no capstone, fewer spell points.

- 3 monk levels:
Pro: Light finishing moves (no point going Dark with only 3 monk levels), including "anti-stun" and 25% cheaper spells; this assumes your cleric is able to hit stuff and generate Ki;
Con: only 2 lvl 9 spells, lower Spell Penetration (CL 17), no Tier III PrE if/when they get released.

This. Also, you can swap to earth for certain fights where you wont be doing any DC casting, 20 HP is 20 HP.

[mmofan]

what i eventually hop to do is pool the info that helped me of the first page and turn the post in to a place to shead some light for people asking the same questions.

[painkiller3]

are you referring to character lvl 9 or my 9th lvl spells... i don't think that is how multi class works. its not that you lose what you would have gain at that specific lvl. for instance if i get a spell at cleric lvl 5 and on my fifth lvl i chose a monk that makes me a cleric 4 + monk 1 = a total lvl of 5 so at a total lvl of 6 i chose my fifth cleric lvl and gain the spell i would have gained at total lvl 5 had i not splashed because my cleric lvl would have been 5.

i understnad that...

i was trying to say that as you level, you will be behind casting levels of a "pure" cleric, so choose your monk levels carefully based on what you find important. if you front load monk levels, at level 9 you won't be able to raise dead, and at level 17 (shroud level), you will have 14 levels of cleric so no mass heal or mass cure critical.

[mmofan]

i understnad that...

i was trying to say that as you level, you will be behind casting levels of a "pure" cleric, so choose your monk levels carefully based on what you find important. if you front load monk levels, at level 9 you won't be able to raise dead, and at level 17 (shroud level), you will have 14 levels of cleric so no mass heal or mass cure critical.

oh ok thanks for the tip

[mmofan]

i understnad that...

i was trying to say that as you level, you will be behind casting levels of a "pure" cleric, so choose your monk levels carefully based on what you find important. if you front load monk levels, at level 9 you won't be able to raise dead, and at level 17 (shroud level), you will have 14 levels of cleric so no mass heal or mass cure critical.

what would you suggest as a good times to splash

[Vien]

I have played both the 20 pure cleric as well as 17/3 cleric/monk splash build.

Granted that the clonk can do amazing stuff but I would suggest you do the following before you commit yourself to the splash build just cause someone else told you its uber:

Try rolling up a lvl 4 light monk using veteran status, take it out for a spin in the harbor quests and try out the light monk combos while stunning mobs, switching between fire stance to charge ki and water stance to raise wis at the same time.

Next, try imagining watching hp bars and switching targets to heal while the light monk moves. If you feel perfectly comfortable doing that, then the 17/3 splash is perfect for you.

To share some of my personal experiences, end game raiding usually favors the pure heal spec cleric but in any non raids, the clonk wins hands down (Except in Epics when the pure cleric can implode everything with the higher spell penetration....)

[mmofan]

Try rolling up a lvl 4 light monk using veteran status, take it out for a spin in the harbor quests and try out the light monk combos while stunning mobs, switching between fire stance to charge ki and water stance to raise wis at the same time.

first off great suggestion tried it spent an hour on a guild ship testing on a dummy for the sake of getting the feeling of the basics. i came up wit a stat that utilize my razer naga. all my monk ability will be bound to the num pad on my mouse and my heals on my first bar on the 1-10 above the keyboard which works well wit the F1-12 keys to target party members

[Moltier]

first off great suggestion tried it spent an hour on a guild ship testing on a dummy for the sake of getting the feeling of the basics. i came up wit a stat that utilize my razer naga. all my monk ability will be bound to the num pad on my mouse and my heals on my first bar on the 1-10 above the keyboard which works well wit the F1-12 keys to target party members

And you can be a caster clonk for even more buttons!
The caster clonk (17/3) life is like this:
Keep up the monk and normal buffs, heal, cc, instakill, stun+manage your ki and stances.
Its really hard to learn, but once you know what you are doing, its fun!