Thoughts on improving the Crystal Cove

[GoldyGopher]

Something I noticed is that not all of the "good" paths between the incense torches results in lit torches or our red bar. This is especially noticable around corners. I bring this up because it appears to me that if you bend the line you can create multiple paths for the kobolds to follow even though you only have one red line.
I notice this issue a lot going down to the waterfall, the kobolds get confused and end up in orbit around three torches.

The healing torches confuse the kobolds. Currently I buy one and stick it in the ground by the Forekobold and sometimes a second one replacing the first incense torch, but if you put them in the ground further down the line the kobolds stop and go back towards the forekobold without breathing in the soothing and healing smells.

I am going to mention that the kobolds don't like water and the impossible task of getting the kobolds to cross it in mass.

The first incoming doesn't always result in the forekobold screaming "incoming", especially when it occurs in the first 30 seconds. Was in a party where the several kobolds died as we are dividing up the tasks.

The location of the "purple" is an issue, I was in one run where we had to string out 24 torches to get to a cluster of 18 purple shards. And we couldn't find more than a couple others closer. I am not sure how random the placement is, but could we get them more spread out.

Not everyone runs capped toons through this... Would be nice if there was oprional XP for taking down the named mobs, bonus XP for clearing so many mobs, and more Guild Renown.

There are obvious points in the cove where the difficulty jumps, I am pretty sure these points are between 5/6, 11/12, 16/17, 20/21, 24/25. I know that by design you give mobs more effects at these points, but the problem is between 6 and 10 for example there is virtually no difference as the mobs get slightly more HP on each level but few new effects. It would be nice if the effects the mobs generate would be staggered more, say Hobgoblin Oppertunists get bumps at 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24 and the Skeletons at 3, 7, 11, 15, 19, 23 and the Minotaurs at 5, 9, 13, 17, 21, 25 and so on and so forth.

Jibbers phases far too often which is an issue if a kobold has his agro.

How about a Raid Version Just saying.

In Smuggler's rest it would be nice if you could use the instances to segregate levels a little more.
Be nice if the mobs gave XP similiar to other adventure areas.
Guild Renown.
Trade All for Maps Pieces.
Available Spells in the "Public Instance"

Additional Thoughts added in this Thread.
Copper should not be the most valuable doubloon. Many people have tens of thousand of gold doubloons, thousands of silver but no copper. I would be great if just like the DDO money system X copper = silver, X silver = gold
The same argument should also work for the "stolen gems" by the way and my stack of 3000 "Stolen emeralds"

Ping Ponging Kobolds.

The end of the quest is to sudden, especially when you work so hard to move Kobolds around. At the end of the quest it would be nice if Kobolds who already collected Shards went back and turned them in.

[varusso]

Something I noticed is that not all of the "good" paths between the incense torches results in lit torches or our red bar. This is especially noticable around corners. I bring this up because it appears to me that if you bend the line you can create multiple paths for the kobolds to follow even though you only have one red line.
I notice this issue a lot going down to the waterfall, the kobolds get confused and end up in orbit around three torches.

The healing torches confuse the kobolds. I buy one and stick it in the ground by the Forekobold and sometimes a second one replacing the first incense torch, but if you put them in the ground further down the change the kobolds stop and go back without breathing in the soothing and healing smells.

I am going to mention that the kobolds don't like water and the impossible task of getting the kobolds to cross it in mass.

The first incoming doesn't always result in the forekobold screaming incoming, especially when it occurs in the first 30 seconds. Was in a party where the several kobolds died as we are diving up the tasks.

The location of the "purple" is an issue, I was in one run where we had to string out 24 torches to get to a cluster of 18 purple shards. And we couldn't find more than a couple others closer. I am not sure how random the placement is, but could we get them more spread out.

Not everyone runs capped toons through this... Would be nice if there was oprional XP for taking down the named mobs, bonus XP for clearing so many mobs, and more Guild Renown.

There are obvious points in the cove where the difficulty jumps, I am pretty sure these points are between 5/6, 11/12, 16/17, 20/21, 24/25. I know that by design you give mobs more effects at these points, but the problem is between 6 and 10 for example there is virtually no difference as the mobs get slightly more HP on each level but few new effects. It would be nice if the effects the mobs generate would be staggered more, say Hobgoblin Oppertunists get bumps at 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24 and the Skeletons at 3, 7, 11, 15, 19, 23 and the Minotaurs at 5, 9, 13, 17, 21, 25 and so on and so forth.

Jibbers phases far too often which is an issue if a kobold has his agro.

How about a Raid Version Just saying.

In Smuggler's rest it would be nice if you could use the instances to segregate levels a little more.
Be nice if the mobs gave XP similiar to other adventure areas.
Guild Renown.

1) One healing torch, period. Next to the foreman. The kobolds pause here while turning in their crystals. By the time they finish this, they should be fully healed and ready to go. Putting a HT anywhere else causes the kobolds to linger, even if they are at full HP, wasting valuable time.

2) Never cut corners when laying torches. Better to have the kobolds take an extra step or 10 going around a corner than get confused and mill around. Kobolds are stupid. Players cant afford to be as well. Also, the torch runner has to learn the optimal placement for torches. Kobolds pause at every torch, so fewer torches = fewer wasted stops. Also avoid laying torches that create multiple lines.

3) There are several spots where kobolds get stuck -- especially the places where the terrain is rough. While nice for player immersion, etc. the floors should be "smoothed out" to prevent kobold pathing issues. One such spot is on the "back way" to the bowling alley. When kobolds try to go over the hump of rocks, they get stuck. Pathing to the extreme left of the humo usually fixes that,but then you get into collision issues with the wall itself. The solution of course is to avoid that path, but thats not the point.

4) XP for the bosses is nice, but XP in the cove doesnt degrade, so it would be infinitely farmable, recall out before completion, then do it again. Not a HUGE issue, but anytime the word infinite can be applied to something, Turbine has to approach with caution.

5) Wilderness XP for kills -- there are no limits on level ranges for grouping, so you could easily be power-twinked doing this. And they are modified public instances, so griefing via kill-stealing is already bad enough. Add the potential for XP gain to this, and it only escalates the problem (for the person actually trying to level up). And again you have the infinity problem since the mobs constantly respawn. Each of these zones should be instanced to the group and not a public zone anyway, with only the boat and tavern area being a public instance -- with no mobs so as to stop all the smacktards who think it is cute to drag lvl 25 mobs onto the boat to get ppl killed. And no, a level 5 toon should not be confronted with CR 20 mobs just because there is a high lvl toon near them -- those 2 toons shouldnt be in the same instance to begin with.

6) The same problem with XP applies to guild renown.

[NytCrawlr]

Haven't had too much of an issue with #5, at least this go around, as it seems that as soon as I attack a mob of my level, the higher ones go away. Done it several times with minos and the like right next to it, where as before the last time they ran this, you had to be extremely careful.

If all else fails, be patient and wait for the higher CR mobs to go away, it doesn't take long, but all in all I like the same instance public wilderness area, despite the frustrations with running an archer or caster through it.

[spunkrawker]

Kill stealing is way too common and has threatened my sanity on more than one occasion. Why not award the kill to the first person who hits the mob, instead of the last?

CC is seriously borked in CC. It really irks me to see a hobgoblin just glide right on up the ramp while the Hold Person rings are spinning around it. I've had reports of similarly mobile stone statues. Please get this fixed for the next Cove.
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[varusso]

Kill stealing is way too common and has threatened my sanity on more than one occasion. Why not award the kill to the first person who hits the mob, instead of the last?

CC is seriously borked in CC. It really irks me to see a hobgoblin just glide right on up the ramp while the Hold Person rings are spinning around it. I've had reports of similarly mobile stone statues. Please get this fixed for the next Cove.
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"tagging" a mob would cause just as much trouble as any other method of assigning the kill-rights to a mob. Its been done in other games, and it leads to griefing regardless. The only thing that really nixes the issue is to do exactly what DDO has done -- make all of the encounters instanced so tha ONLY the people in your group can mess with it. It prevents kill stealing and camping, both sources of major frustration in other MMOs. And it worked wonders in DDO -- until Mabar and CC. The simple solution is just to do what DDO has done so well on other quests: make them all instanced to the group. Solve alot of player-tard problems, as well as removing mechanical issues such as incorrect level mobs vs players. In theory, its nice that they are trying to do something different from the rest of the quests, but in reality I have met very few ppl who actually like the mechanic or the grief potential.

I personally refuse to even bother with the zone anymore, since the first time it came out. Now I just chug a grog and go pwn butchers instead -- better/faster farm for map pieces, no griefing, dont have to go searching for lvl appropriate spawns. Unfortunately that also means giving up treasure maps, and I have yet to get a compass drop out of that, but *shrug*

[FlimsyFirewood]

Thank you for feedback guys.

3) There are several spots where kobolds get stuck -- especially the places where the terrain is rough. While nice for player immersion, etc. the floors should be "smoothed out" to prevent kobold pathing issues. One such spot is on the "back way" to the bowling alley. When kobolds try to go over the hump of rocks, they get stuck. Pathing to the extreme left of the humo usually fixes that,but then you get into collision issues with the wall itself. The solution of course is to avoid that path, but thats not the point.

Please submit a bug report for each such location.

[smatt]

Thank you for feedback guys.



Please submit a bug report for each such location.

I've tried to do a few Br's on this.... Alas, the in game bug reporting is, well um bugged Suprise suprise

[Whargoul]

I have ran torches for literally hundreds of runs, and despite my expertise and careful placement, there are still some situations where one or more kobolds get confused. It would be nice to be able to double-click a kobold that is currently going in the wrong direction, and have it turn around and go the other way immediately.

The problem is once a kobold gets moving the wrong way, it will often continue in that direction until it gets back to the Forekobold. Sure, you can make changes to the line, lift torches, put them down, adjust the path slightly, etc. to get them moving in the right direction, but a simple AI flag that can be toggled back and forth by clicking on them would be very helpful.

[Angelus_dead]

Kill stealing is way too common and has threatened my sanity on more than one occasion. Why not award the kill to the first person who hits the mob, instead of the last?

As far as I know, the DDO server already does give kill credit to the first player who did damage. It definitely did before, and I haven't tested if it changed.

However, it's not as if the pirate holiday event includes a meaningful situation where kill-stealing could be a factor. The outside explorer zone is irrelevant, and the dungeon and cove only allows invited players to join the instance.

[varusso]

As far as I know, the DDO server already does give kill credit to the first player who did damage. It definitely did before, and I haven't tested if it changed.

However, it's not as if the pirate holiday event includes a meaningful situation where kill-stealing could be a factor. The outside explorer zone is irrelevant, and the dungeon and cove only allows invited players to join the instance.

Yes completely irrelevant, except for the lvl 5 guy trying to scrounge up a compass or get enough dubloons to buy one, while a lvl 20 is running around killing everything and robbing them of the chance -- or spawning mobs whose Cr are way too high for the little guy to have a chance of even hitting them, much less killing them.

Everything in the cove starts in the explorer area -- unless you are willing to spend real $$ to buy a compass in the DDO store. I would hardly label that as irrelevant.

The entire thing should be instanced except the boat and tavern. Those would be the common area, like any other stormreach zone. This solves nearly every problem generated by the area in terms of griefing:

*You cant kill steal from people not in the group.
*You cant spawn too-high (or too-low) CR mobs for ppl who are not in your group (and whom you are in theory working with anyway). The level range you set for your group would be the only level range of mobs you should see.
*You cant drag mobs onto other ppl not in your group (such as the smacktards dragging them onto the boat)
*You have fewer ppl in the instance, so aside from competition for kills being moot, you also have less bandwidth use per instance, ergo less opportunity for lag (usage increases exponentially for each person added to the area, hence one of the reasons for instanced areas to begin with).
*Players might actually use the area more to get their MPs, rather than going to kill kobolds in harbor, with all the bad things removed from the area.

And yes, Mabar should be the exact same way, since the same problems that occur in CC also occur in Mabar. Move the Door and the NPCs to the front of the graveyard, and put an entrance to an instanced version of the graveyard there as well, to allow access to the actual hunting area. This also prevents players just trying to run the quests from getting killed by CR25 AOE spells etc. while just passing through.

Dont get me wrong -- the events are cool and fun, but there are some tweaks that definitely DO need to be made in order to make them better for those who want to run them -- and less intrusive to those who do not.

[oganos]

The only thing that really cheeses me off is not being able to use blade barrier in the 'wilderness' area of the cove.

[PestWulf]

The only thing that really cheeses me off is not being able to use blade barrier in the 'wilderness' area of the cove.

Yeah, but cometfall is A-OK go figure

[PestWulf]

The biggest problem that I see, which causes me the most frustration, is that when a kobold comes up empty handed and starts heading back up the line, he makes every kobold he meets ALSO head back up the line. And then some come down the line and meet them, so some turn around and head back down the line. But then someone empty who was just with them arrives at the same spot..so they all turn around again.

Basically they end up ping-ponging between two torches and once in a while one will shake out and continue on his way.

It makes picking up torches to re-direct a route into a potentially disastrous maneuver. You have to basically have a torch requisition so you have enough torches to lay down your alternate line and then wait for no kobolds to be around and make a clean switch to the new track like a train.

The other thing that screws with this are incomings that spawn directly on the line. one empty sack kobold meets him and turns back will cause the exact same pile up and confusion.

They only way to combat this when it happens is to rip up the line behind them by two torches and force them forward, which really...really frustrates the heck out of me. Had 5 minutes to to, needed 20 crystals to cap, had a room of purples down in the waterfall room and NO mobs on the line. Could not get one stinking kobold to get down there within 5 minutes to grab a couple purp and hop in the teleporter because of the horrible ping-ponging.

By the time I started ripping up the line it was too late. Sigh.

I think as compensation the devs need to turn off their safety flag at the end of the run and give us a minute before closing it to beat the hell out of them.

[Nedime]

Man I just want a "trade all" button - for the Treasure Maps.

[RangerOne]

Man I just want a "trade all" button - for the Treasure Maps.

Oh yes, a trade all button. I clicked through 224 maps pieces the other day. And I don't even farm the cove that often.

[kafrielveddicus]

Yes completely irrelevant, except for the lvl 5 guy trying to scrounge up a compass or get enough dubloons to buy one, while a lvl 20 is running around killing everything and robbing them of the chance -- or spawning mobs whose Cr are way too high for the little guy to have a chance of even hitting them, much less killing them.

Everything in the cove starts in the explorer area -- unless you are willing to spend real $$ to buy a compass in the DDO store. I would hardly label that as irrelevant.

The entire thing should be instanced except the boat and tavern. Those would be the common area, like any other stormreach zone. This solves nearly every problem generated by the area in terms of griefing:

*You cant kill steal from people not in the group.
*You cant spawn too-high (or too-low) CR mobs for ppl who are not in your group (and whom you are in theory working with anyway). The level range you set for your group would be the only level range of mobs you should see.
*You cant drag mobs onto other ppl not in your group (such as the smacktards dragging them onto the boat)
*You have fewer ppl in the instance, so aside from competition for kills being moot, you also have less bandwidth use per instance, ergo less opportunity for lag (usage increases exponentially for each person added to the area, hence one of the reasons for instanced areas to begin with).
*Players might actually use the area more to get their MPs, rather than going to kill kobolds in harbor, with all the bad things removed from the area.

And yes, Mabar should be the exact same way, since the same problems that occur in CC also occur in Mabar. Move the Door and the NPCs to the front of the graveyard, and put an entrance to an instanced version of the graveyard there as well, to allow access to the actual hunting area. This also prevents players just trying to run the quests from getting killed by CR25 AOE spells etc. while just passing through.

Dont get me wrong -- the events are cool and fun, but there are some tweaks that definitely DO need to be made in order to make them better for those who want to run them -- and less intrusive to those who do not.

I am all for seperate instances, you could make everyone happy in this way, make it so you click on someone and may choose between a seperate personal group instance or a public instance for all comers. Our guild is very limited to Crystal Cove as we can not run with the general population, we would love to have full access to this event with private instances.

The Narc

[fuzzy1guy]

Don't really see any point to tweaking up the wilderness zone out there.

You should only be out there until you get your first compass. Or enough to buy one.
After that everything else is better gotten somewhere else.

More compasses? Turn in some gems. You only need to 'farm' for that first one.

Treasure maps? Drink a grog and go wipe out kobold assault, irestone, or butchers path. You'll get far more map pieces for your time/hp/sp bars than the wilderness will ever get.

The wilderness works well enough for how long you actually need it.


As for the pathing.. There are some tricks to it. And some advanced tactics that can be used. My fav is load up the kobolds with the max barrels. And pull up the entire line herding the kobolds down to where all the purple are. While a 2nd teammate is laying down a new line far enough behind to somewhere else. Give them no choice of where to go at all. But overall its not as easy as last year's set it and forget it. And like one of the devs said. Don't cut corners! Use an extra two torches to get a single clear line around the corner. Not a triangle sticking thru the wall.

[spunkrawker]

Oh yes, a trade all button. I clicked through 224 maps pieces the other day. And I don't even farm the cove that often.

/signed.

After running butchers several times, I had about 1200 map pieces to turn in...even an option to turn in 10 or 50 at a time would be amazing.
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[theodin]

Man I just want a "trade all" button - for the Treasure Maps.

I had at one point well over 1500 map pieces and that took 4 openings of the Cove to complete the turn ins. My click finger is still sore.

Kil

[Angelus_dead]

Yes completely irrelevant, except for the lvl 5 guy

If you are level 5, a temporary holiday event isn't really for you.

Everything in the cove starts in the explorer area

Yes, the cove event starts in the explorer zone once... very briefly. You get one compass (or doubloons to buy it) and you're done from there FOREVER.