Race Skills

[FranOhmsford]

What if each race got it's own Racial Class Skill?

No matter what the class this skill would be considered a class skill and if said class already has skill goes from 1 per lvl to 1.5 per lvl.

Drow = UMD - A lot more people suddenly playing drow.
Elf = Balance - Elves are meant to be lithe and graceful are they not?
Half Elf = Bluff - From the Half Elf bonus feat - Diplo and intim don't work in my mind for the flavour.
Human = Swim - No other skill makes sense for humans.
Half Orc = Intimidate - Pretty obvious choice here.
Dwarf = Concentration - Stubborn Bull Headed Dwarves tend to be hard to distract.
Halfling = Tumble - Maybe Heal, Move Silently or Hide - Tumble has the most use for all classes though
Warforged = Repair - Make High enough repair skill = Regen 1hp/1min.

These would be my choices of course.

The idea stems from Drow's natural magical affinity - Figured If drow were to get a buff the other races should likewise.

[Teharahma]

Drow = Listen/Spot. (Darkvision, and being able to hear and see better then humans)
Elf = Tumble. (Agile and nimble, can't think of anything else really.)
Half Elf = Bluff/Diplo. (Jack of all trades-ish)
Human = Bluff/Diplo. (Jack of all trades-ish)
Half Orc = Intimidate (Yea, true.)
Dwarf = Balance. (Sturdy)
Halfling = Hide/MS (Sneaky)
Warforged = Concentration (WF don't tend to be easily distracted. Due to a-social nature.)

Don't think it's that great of an idea, though.

[Urist]

It's a nice idea on the face of it. A neat bonus for each race, which could be useful, but not too useful.

But that said, such racial skill bonuses are already implemented in the form of the racial feats and race-specific skill enhancements.

[honkuimushi]

This is a pretty big deviation from PnP. Still, allowing allowing races to buy certain skills at a 1 to 1 basis regardless of class wouldn't be so bad. However I wouldn't support allowing characters to exceed the cap.

As for which race gets what skills, some races already get bonuses and racial enhancements. Choosing one skill from that list shouldn't be so bad. The main use I could see is allowing Intimidate to work with a wider range of classes and making it so that multiclassed Rogues have a little easier time keeping their skills up. Bluff Ninja's might be another option.

[FranOhmsford]

Listen or spot or both would be ok for a drow but I still think Drow need more of a boost than that - There magical affinity makes UMD the best option in my view.

Tumble makes no real sense in my mind for an Elf {far better for halfling} and Dwarves already get a nice bonus to balance.

Halflings are known for being sneaky fine but Hide and Move Silently don't really provide much for non rogue/ranger toons - Prefer Tumble here cos it's useful for all. Rogues and Rangers already get hide and MS as class feats after all.

Giving Warforged Concentration - Why? Seriously it's a class feat for all classes that actually need it as is. Repair makes far more sense to buff Warforged melee a bit.

Saying that giving Dwarves concentration as I suggested suffers likewise - balance would work here but I'd still like to give that to elves - Believe Dwarves also get bonuses to Search making that a possiblility.

Humans in my view shouldn't really get a race skill as they're known for being the average in D&D which is why I suggested Swim - Heal and Diplo would also work

Bluff just seems perfect for H-Elves. Likewise Intim for H-Orcs.

[Bodic]

What if each race got it's own Racial Class Skill?

No matter what the class this skill would be considered a class skill and if said class already has skill goes from 1 per lvl to 1.5 per lvl.

Drow = UMD - A lot more people suddenly playing drow.
Elf = Balance - Elves are meant to be lithe and graceful are they not?
Half Elf = Bluff - From the Half Elf bonus feat - Diplo and intim don't work in my mind for the flavour.
Human = Swim - No other skill makes sense for humans.
Half Orc = Intimidate - Pretty obvious choice here.
Dwarf = Concentration - Stubborn Bull Headed Dwarves tend to be hard to distract.
Halfling = Tumble - Maybe Heal, Move Silently or Hide - Tumble has the most use for all classes though
Warforged = Repair - Make High enough repair skill = Regen 1hp/1min.

These would be my choices of course.

The idea stems from Drow's natural magical affinity - Figured If drow were to get a buff the other races should likewise.

THIS SOUNDS LIKE YOU WANT UMD JUST FOR YOUR DROW SORC then again your Toon is so long I dont know what is really real.

[R0cksteady]

I like the premise. But leave UMD off the list, and hell no to WF getting a completely useless skill. Give WF concentration like the other guy said.

[FranOhmsford]

THIS SOUNDS LIKE YOU WANT UMD JUST FOR YOUR DROW SORC then again your Toon is so long I dont know what is really real.

What's with the caps?

1. I do not now and never have had a Drow Sorc.

I have a Drow Rogue/Fighter {14/2 2WF Trap Monkey}, a couple of Drow lowbie Fighters going for Stalwart and Kensai, a Drizzt clone and a lvl 6 Drow wizzie I haven't played in months. I did have a Drow Pally with one lvl in FS but deleted him at lvl 9.

2. I assume you're complaining about my toon's name - His full name is Larystessian Caravardian {a name I personally like a lot - first used 10+ years ago in a 2nd ed. campaign}. Why this would constitute a problem with my suggestion I suppose I will never know.

3. DDO is real - it exists in reality as we know it. It is also a computer game set in a fantasy world where people can have any name they choose {so long as no-one else has the same first name}.

FINALLY - The one skill that comes up in so many threads on these forums as a must have for any character is UMD - The generally perceived WORST RACE in the game is Drow - Drow in D&D have a natural affinity for magic incl. many innate magical abilities not available to their DDO counterparts - How better to help Drow in DDO out than to give them UMD as a racial skill no matter what their class? I also provided possibilities for racial skills for the other races as I wish to bring Drow {and Elves} up to par - NOT take them beyond the other races.

[R0cksteady]

What's with the caps?

1. I do not now and never have had a Drow Sorc.

I have a Drow Rogue/Fighter {14/2 2WF Trap Monkey}, a couple of Drow lowbie Fighters going for Stalwart and Kensai, a Drizzt clone and a lvl 6 Drow wizzie I haven't played in months. I did have a Drow Pally with one lvl in FS but deleted him at lvl 9.

2. I assume you're complaining about my toon's name - His full name is Larystessian Caravardian {a name I personally like a lot - first used 10+ years ago in a 2nd ed. campaign}. Why this would constitute a problem with my suggestion I suppose I will never know.

3. DDO is real - it exists in reality as we know it. It is also a computer game set in a fantasy world where people can have any name they choose {so long as no-one else has the same first name}.

FINALLY - The one skill that comes up in so many threads on these forums as a must have for any character is UMD - The generally perceived WORST RACE in the game is Drow - Drow in D&D have a natural affinity for magic incl. many innate magical abilities not available to their DDO counterparts - How better to help Drow in DDO out than to give them UMD as a racial skill no matter what their class? I also provided possibilities for racial skills for the other races as I wish to bring Drow {and Elves} up to par - NOT take them beyond the other races.

Drow isn't the worst, Elf is. Drow does decently ina couple of classes, elf is a completely useless class,

[FranOhmsford]

I like the premise. But leave UMD off the list, and hell no to WF getting a completely useless skill. Give WF concentration like the other guy said.

As I asserted earlier Concentration is THE main class skill for pretty much every class that needs to take it - Warforged not members of those classes have no need for said skill making it pointless to provide them with it as a racial skill.

Repair is SUPPOSED to be needed by every Warforged character {If not then it surely needs a buff anyway - My suggestion would be to make high scores in repair provide walking regen 1hp/min}.

Also in my opinion Warforged are overpowered and the #1 race for Wizards, Sorcerors, Favoured Souls and Monks {All classes with Concentration as a class skill anyway}.

Joint #1 race with H-Orcs for Fighters and Barbarians - Classes with absolutely no use for concentration.

Warforged don't need a top tier Racial Skill - They barely need one at all.

However just like every other race I provided an option so the races that truly need boosting {Drow and Elves} might get a boost WITHOUT annoying the fans of other races.

I tried to keep to a thematic skill for each race {Repair being especially thematic for Warforged}. This was hardest for Humans, Dwarves and Halflings

Dwarves already gain bonuses to balance and search and as I'd prefer Elves to get a boost to balance and with Concentration though thematic not needed by all classes I went with search.

Halflings are widely known as sneaky rogue types BUT as Hide and MS are also very minor skills for most classes I went with Tumble.

Humans as THE Jack of all Trades race that they've always been in D&D shouldn't really get a racial skill at all BUT I decided Swim {Worthless feat though it's universally accepted to be} was a good thematic choice.

Maybe I just used thematic too many times - oh well.

[FranOhmsford]

Drow isn't the worst, Elf is. Drow does decently ina couple of classes, elf is a completely useless class,

From another user:

{QUOTE - THIS SOUNDS LIKE YOU WANT UMD JUST FOR YOUR DROW SORC then again your Toon is so long I dont know what is really real. UNQOUTE}


Wow I seem to have hit a nerve or two here.

First a Caps locked personal attack on me and my character's name.

Second an attack on Elves {Of course the character in my sig - my main - just happens to be an Elf}.

I don't believe Elves are "completely useless" obviously. I'm pretty certain most DDO players would disagree that Elves are "completely useless". However I do believe they need a boost {Just like Drow}.
Balance {a very useful skill for low skill point classes - specifically cleric} provides said boost as a racial skill and works thematically {there I go again} as Elves are known to be lithe and graceful.

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

What if each race got it's own Racial Class Skill?

No matter what the class this skill would be considered a class skill and if said class already has skill goes from 1 per lvl to 1.5 per lvl.

Drow = UMD - A lot more people suddenly playing drow.
Elf = Balance - Elves are meant to be lithe and graceful are they not?
Half Elf = Bluff - From the Half Elf bonus feat - Diplo and intim don't work in my mind for the flavour.
Human = Swim - No other skill makes sense for humans.
Half Orc = Intimidate - Pretty obvious choice here.
Dwarf = Concentration - Stubborn Bull Headed Dwarves tend to be hard to distract.
Halfling = Tumble - Maybe Heal, Move Silently or Hide - Tumble has the most use for all classes though
Warforged = Repair - Make High enough repair skill = Regen 1hp/1min.

These would be my choices of course.

The idea stems from Drow's natural magical affinity - Figured If drow were to get a buff the other races should likewise.

well i do think that drow is okay, but UMD is arguably the best skill in the game followed closely by concentration and DD i dont think any race should get it, and i do like my drow
as for elves i think they should get spot or listen, only what 3 classes get spot and 1 get listen? so it would up the use of those more
half elves yes bluff is great, but personally i think it should be diplomacy...
Humans get an extra skill point per lvl and 4 more at lvl 1 already so i dont think they should get a racial skill at ALL
half orc + intimidate = viable
Dwarf is definately a race that would be troublesome.... maybe give them ups to spot, they can see stonework pretty well
halfling is the healing race ~just ask house Jorasco~ and they should get heal, tumble is great and id love to have it but again it is a little too good for halflings ~love me halflings, they make the world go round!~
WF i do agree should get repair as a skill, but the 1/min that would stack with the 1/min regen, 1/30 second regen, 1/15 second regen, AND the titan gloves ~never had them but i think it also gives WF a heal per time~ that is just too much, maybe 1/2 min? im just saying with a regen GS, the gloves max'd out, AND that your gonna be seeing health rise really quickly

[Norean]

Drow is my favorite race for a rogue. They do get racial skill bonuses. The get a racial feat that adds to their search, listen, and spot skills. In addition to that they get racial enhancement lines to increase each of those skills further. Elves get the same thing. I'd go into detail about how drow make great rogues but here's not the place.

[bigolbear]

why limit it to one skill per race.

Its a great idea btw, ive used this in pen and paper games and it works very well indeed.

id suggest going with all the skills that any race has natural bonuses to or an enhancement line for. This would give a nice boost to drow who are at the moment fairly week choices.

drow: spot, search, listen. (elf perception enhancements)
human: none (but keep reading)
dwarf: balance(dwarf stability), concentration(dwarven faith), search(stonecunning).
elf: spot, search, listen. (elf perception enhancements)
halfling: hide, movesilent, bluff (guile and sneak bonuses)
Warforge: repair(WF repair), balance(WF combat training), intimidate (WF brute fighting)
Horc: intimidate (brute fighting).
Helf: intimidate, bluff and diplomacy.

Id also suggest that any dragon mark that gives a bonus to a skill makes that skill a class skill, as does skill focus - this would bring back the penalty to humans.

These changes would lead to more varied builds, more uses for skill focus other than SF UMD and more reasons to pick up the dragon marks.

[FranOhmsford]

Unfortunately Spot,Search,Listen,Hide and Move Silently are all fantastic skills for Rogues, Rangers and Artificers - Good skills for Wizards and Sorcerors but weak for everyone else.

Concentration is a class skill anyway for every class that actually needs it.

What I was attempting was to give every race a skill that applied to all classes if possible.

Balance is in my opinion the perfect choice for Elves as unlike spot, search and listen it applies to every class equally and works thematically.

UMD is according to these forums the #1 skill and as Drow are universally accepted to be a weak choice of race this would give them an undeniable boost and goes along with their natural magical affinity {especially as Spell Res is known to be weak at cap}.

Tumble again is a skill that applies to all classes {Not actually in my view but having read these forums I'll go with the majority} unlike Hide and Move Silently. Heal would be my second choice for Halflings except for the fact that Heal is universally reviled.

Dwarves get a buff to Balance already and as Balance is my choice for Elves I would go with Search on Dwarves as the next best option {of course Search breaks my plan to give all races a useful skill for all classes} Dwarves are perhaps the hardest race here.

Like you I believe Humans shouldn't gain a racial skill BUT Swim or Heal {Universally reviled though they are} would work.

In my opinion Diplo is far weaker than bluff and also not as useful for all classes - Half Elves get Bluff, Diplo and Intim as bonuses so Bluff is the one I went with here.

Warforged Repair and Half Orc Intim speak for themselves.


Back to Dwarf - Skills useful for all classes, not taken by another race - Spot, Listen, Heal, Jump.

1. Spot - allows you to spot hidden enemies, secret doors and traps - Very useful.
2. Listen - Great for ranged characters.
3. Heal - Not really a help {as is} to dwarves - Heal like Repair needs a buff anyway.
4. Jump - Superb but definitely not thematic to Dwarves and capped.

[Forgeborn]

but the 1/min that would stack with the 1/min regen, 1/30 second regen, 1/15 second regen, AND the titan gloves ~never had them but i think it also gives WF a heal per time~ that is just too much, maybe 1/2 min? im just saying with a regen GS, the gloves max'd out, AND that your gonna be seeing health rise really quickly

Err, even then, you'd gain 18 hp/min? assuming it would all stack, and you have expended enough resources/gear/actionpoints slots to get your warforged up to 100% or more healing amplification (regeneration doesn't tick at all if you have <100% positive energy efficiency). Compare this to the Pale master death aura healing, which ticks for 30+ per tick, lasts for several minutes, doesn't take up any gear slots, and costs a pittance in SP, and it's really not that bad. Even with the changes it would still suck.

Unfortunately Spot,Search,Listen,Hide and Move Silently are all fantastic skills for Rogues, Rangers and Artificers - Good skills for Wizards and Sorcerors but weak for everyone else.

Spot: Wait... Seeing stuff before you run into it with your thick skull isn't helpful for barbarians, and fighters? that's news to me.
Search: arguably only useful for classes that are able to deal with traps, due to the existence of true seeing and detect secret door clickies
Listen: Much like spot, hearing mobs shuffle about can mean you're not running head first into a pack of thrash.
Hide: Pretty handy if you have the skillpoints and ranks to make it work, though invalidated for a lot of classes due to invisibility, which with minimal positioning can be pretty effective
Move silently: Useful for those times you don't want to aggro a pack and trash and just want to slip by them unnoticed, with invisibility you can do most of it, but in tight corridors move silently is extremely handy to make sure the mobs aren't shuffling about and bumping into you.

What I was attempting was to give every race a skill that applied to all classes if possible.

So giving Warforged the repair skill, which isn't worth skill points at all unless you have severe numbers to spare, applies 'to all classes'? Even with your proposed regeneration effect of 1 point per minute people still wouldn't bother with it, since, at cap, you have 400-500 HP, Good luck waiting several hours for that to regenerate with the slow regen you are proposing, and HP regained at shrines is low, even with capped ranks and a high int, so it's pretty much useless there too.

On the other hand, you give Drow, a race that has a few niche advantages, the UMD skill, which is arguably the most powerful skill in the current game, talking about unbalanced much here?

Balance is in my opinion the perfect choice for Elves as unlike spot, search and listen it applies to every class equally and works thematically.

Spot and listen do apply to every class equally, they are just more useful to certain classes due to class features or fighting style. Search I have to agree is marginally useful to many classes due to existence of certain magical items.

UMD is according to these forums the #1 skill and as Drow are universally accepted to be a weak choice of race this would give them an undeniable boost and goes along with their natural magical affinity {especially as Spell Res is known to be weak at cap}.

Spell resistance clearly shows their magical affinity, and yes, it's pretty weak 'at cap' if you're running epics, which make every sort of spell resistance useless because the casters are all CR 35+ and thus can't fail spell pen checks on whatever we players can put up against it, it's pretty useful as is from 1-20 due to it scaling with level.

Drow are generally considered 'weak' from my perception due to their con penalty, and the lack of 32 point build, but they can be pretty powerful sorcerers, wizards, or bards, due to their increased stats that no other race gets (+int and charisma)

Warforged, while once having been the 'master' race, have been knocked down from their Melee dominance perch by Half orcs, who get 4 more strength, enhancements for two handed melee damage, and same power attack damage/attack penalty increases, and the same brute fighting line for hate, they also gain even more race specific enhancements if they run with barbarian as a class.

Warforged, as it stands, make fine Archmages and sorcerers, due to their ability to reconstruct themselves when things go south, in the other classes they can manage, but don't excel.

UMD however is way to powerful to just hand to any race, there's a reason only 2 classes have it (artificers, masters of technological and magical devices, and Rogues, jack's of all trades) and the highest skill boost item is a meager +5 (seven fingered gloves). Drow racial skills are Listen, spot, and search, I could even understand hide, move silently, and bluff, due to the society that is so stereotypical drow (betrayel, stealth, and assassination.)

Tumble again is a skill that applies to all classes {Not actually in my view but having read these forums I'll go with the majority} unlike Hide and Move Silently. Heal would be my second choice for Halflings except for the fact that Heal is universally reviled.

Tumble is pretty useful, for a single point so you can roll away, any extra points aren't really worth it in my opinion, sure, you might tumble slightly further, or have a different anim, but it's main use stays the same.

Hide and move silently do apply equal to all classes, all classes can be stealthy if they want to, Rogues and rangers are generally just seen as more inclined to do so, but nothing stops a barbarian from being an effective stealth character in some quests, except the lack of ranks in those two skills.

Heal, much like Repair, is completely useless, you might use it once or twice while in khortos to get a party member back on his feat, but pretty much as soon as you hit harbor and beyond, you'll have other, faster ways to stabilize people and get them back on their feat. The HP regained at shrines is pitiful compared to most players HP, so barely worth considering.

Dwarves get a buff to Balance already and as Balance is my choice for Elves I would go with Search on Dwarves as the next best option {of course Search breaks my plan to give all races a useful skill for all classes} Dwarves are perhaps the hardest race here.

Following your train of thought, Dwarves are a completely viable option for UMD, since they have a natural affinity to magic, as shown in their increase to saves against it, and the dwarven faith line for extra SP on clerics.

However, dwarves are also naturally considered extremely sturdy on their feet, so balance makes a lot more sense, or, tracking back to their history as miners, search. Or possibly go to the cliche that all dwarves are greedy, and give them Haggle as a racial skill.

Like you I believe Humans shouldn't gain a racial skill BUT Swim or Heal {Universally reviled though they are} would work.

Humans are a generic jack of all trades race, usually pictured as a race that can learn any trait, but won't be as good as other races in it, which is generally shown by the lack of a racial skill bonus to said skill. Given that one of the ways to learn things is being taught, I'd say listen or spot would work nicely for them as a racial skill, since they'd be needing to pay attention or listen to their teacher to ever hope to rival the other races. Even though it will not be useful to many people, it can still help out on certain niche builds.

In my opinion Diplo is far weaker than bluff and also not as useful for all classes - Half Elves get Bluff, Diplo and Intim as bonuses so Bluff is the one I went with here.

Diplomacy can be extremely useful to shed aggro from mobs, unlike bluff which can be used to pull mobs, or make them vulnerable to sneak attack (because mister sorcerer is really gonna care if he gets sneak attack, right?). Diplomacy also makes more sense due to half-elfs being 'of two worlds' and often acting as ambassadors between elf and human societies. Balance also makes sense, due to their dragonmark of storm, and the general assumption that sailing on any sort of ship requires at least some investment in balance.

Warforged Repair and Half Orc Intim speak for themselves.

Warforged are build for war, hence their name, not for maintenance on devices and machines, that's the forte of Artificers. Link this to the weakness of the skill and giving them this would just be a slap in the face. They are build for close combat, and single-mindedness, which to me says:
Balance: getting up after being knocked down, or just not getting knocked down in the first place
Intimidate: Getting the aggro from the target, and 'protecting' the "weaker" fleshies
Spot: being able to see stuff from a distance before you engage it always helps
concentration: Focused on their task

Half-orcs for one I can actually agree upon, it fits nicely with them, but since they are generally martially inclined I'd use physical skills instead of a social one. So that would either be Swim, Jump, or balance.
Swim: they are powerful to start with, and are martially inclined to endurance and strength, so swim makes sense in my opinion
Jump: they are powerful to start with, and jump is extremely handy in several situations, 'giving' it to half-orcs would be nice for the classes that don't get it as a class skill, and still keep in line with the half-orc strength/endurance.
Balance: same reason as warforged mostly, they are martially inclined, so giving them balance makes sense, a fighter/barbarian on his back can't swing his weapon, now can he?

Back to Dwarf - Skills useful for all classes, not taken by another race - Spot, Listen, Heal, Jump.

1. Spot - allows you to spot hidden enemies, secret doors and traps - Very useful.
2. Listen - Great for ranged characters.
3. Heal - Not really a help {as is} to dwarves - Heal like Repair needs a buff anyway.
4. Jump - Superb but definitely not thematic to Dwarves and capped.

Balance: extremely sturdy on their feet
Haggle: generally seen as greedy
Search/spot: finding hidden areas/enemies in their mines

TL;DR
I'd go with these set-ups, giving 'weaker' races two choices from a restrictive list, doing them as 'bonus' feats like the half elf dillitante could work nicely to set them as class skills.
Drow elf: Two of Hide, move silently, bluff, spot, search, listen
Dwarf: Balance, Haggle, search
Elf: two of Balance, move silently, hide, search, listen, spot
Half-elf: Search, listen, spot, Diplomacy
Half-orc: Jump, Swim, Balance
Human: Listen, spot
Warforged: balance, intimidate, Spot, concentration

[FranOhmsford]

"Following your train of thought, Dwarves are a completely viable option for UMD, since they have a natural affinity to magic, as shown in their increase to saves against it, and the dwarven faith line for extra SP on clerics. "

This is just wrong - Dwarves gained their increased saves vs magic from the complete opposite of what you've just said - They used to be completely unable to become arcane casters in D&D.
Since 3.5 {maybe since 3rd ed.} They are now able to become Arcane casters BUT they have kep their increased saves.
Divine casting is a completely different matter as it's a matter of FAITH and Bestowed by a divine being - Not learnt.

Hide and Move Silently are skills defined by the player's skill NOT the points put into them - I've seen an assassin rogue with 20+ Hide and MS fail to sneak past Kobolds in Stealthy Repo YET players on these forums and ingame have said in the past that doing this does not require such high skills and the same player had previously had no problems soloing the same quest on elite.

I would definitely disagree that any and all characters have a use for stealth skills - especially as Invis makes hide completely pointless anyhow.

Intimidate is a good choice for WF BUT as I said I wanted to give each race a different skill - The only way for WF to get Intim is for H-Orcs to get something else.
My proposal for a small buff to heal and repair was so that I wouldn't get shouted down about overpowering those 2 skills. From the response to the suggestion thread of that buff it seems like most would prefer a much stronger boost to said skills.
If a more powerful boost was made to those skills Repair would become viable for WF and of course WF were created for War - They were supposed to be self-sufficient though - Why shouldn't they be able to repair themselves on the move?

The thing is Spot and Listen are low on the list of good skills according to the majority of players on these forums and in ingame advice - Both have good uses for ranged characters and I personally like to have a little of each anyway to not run into hidden enemies. Spot we are constantly being told in advice to not bother with even on a rogue so by your choices Drow get a tiny boost - What I'm trying to do is equalise them to the other races - UMD would do this.

Warforged do STILL make very good melee toons - Not top tier like they once were because of the advent of tthe Half Orc - But stronger than any other race. They are also the #1 for Wizards and Sorcerors DESPITE Drow's bonus to Int and Cha {simply because of Drow's concurrent penalty to Con.}. WF also make very good Monks and as Melee FS seem to be so far ahead of the rest it's plain ridiculous.

Intim has been generally accepted in this thread for H-Orcs.
Balance I'd give to Elves - Known to be lithe and graceful.
Concentration is out because it's a class skill already for every class that actually needs it.
Spot and Listen are lesser skills but viable for all races pretty equally.


So for WF if Repair is considered too weak I would have to go with either Spot or Listen. Of course could give them Swim but that's even more useless than Repair as is.