Devs: Justification for Homunculus treated as summon?

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

Devs,

First, I'm not sure if this is WAI or if it's a known bug. If it has already been addressed I haven't found it in the sea of noise these forums are.

So, my question is: why are Artificers' homunculi are treated and affected by Augment Summon feat when they are NOT a summoned creature. They're a construct built by its owner or someone built it for and "tethered" to him/her and in many respectsthey are an extension of their owners. I look through some source materials and could not find any info on homunculi treated as a summoned creature. Is it that DDO cannot differentiate between an extra-planar summon and a construct pet kind of bug or is it in place on purpose (and if so, what is the justification for it)? An explanation would be much appreciated.

[Bodic]

do you really want to complain that the pet get +4 to stats.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

do you really want to complain that the pet get +4 to stats.

My complaint is with regards to the inconsistency with the ruleset, not the effects thereof, in case it wasn't clear from my OP.

[Gauthaag]

heh, what about hirelings?

[Tinco]

'Augment Summoning' in DDO has a wider target audience than in PnP. It actually strengthens all minions, servants, charmed creatures, summoned creatures and pets under your control. It's more of an 'Improved Leadership' type effect and only bears the old name for the sake of consistency with the pnp rules.

Nothing to complain here honestly.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

type effect and only bears the old name for the sake of consistency with the pnp rules.

Homunculi do not fit any of the criteria you described. It is not consistent with PnP, at all.

[JPDefault]

I'm sure it's working as intended, and I'm not complaining about that +4, but I'd also like to know WHY. You know, flavor, immersion and all those things.
I'd like to at least be able to pretend that I'm playing a D&D based game and not a Duke Nukem multiplayer clone.

[Roguewiz]

It is treated as a summon, probably, because the ability techinically does "summon" them into existance. You could also make the same arguement about henchman, which are technically there because you hired them through a contract; also effected by Augment Summoning

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

I'm sure it's working as intended, and I'm not complaining about that +4, but I'd also like to know WHY. You know, flavor, immersion and all those things.
I'd like to at least be able to pretend that I'm playing a D&D based game and not a Duke Nukem multiplayer clone.

Yup. Same reason I asked.

[Chai]

This works on charmed, summoned, and pets and apparently, hirelings. It was likely made this way to make it an actual useful feat. If it only affected summoned mobs theres no reason to take it.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

It is treated as a summon, probably, because the ability techinically does "summon" them into existance. You could also make the same arguement about henchman, which are technically there because you hired them through a contract; also effected by Augment Summoning

That's kind of my train of thought. I think it's more of a "technical" issue than something they fully intended, which is what I'd like a dev to chime in and shed some light Because, unlike any charmed/summoned creature/henchman, that construct is part of the character (leveling up and gear, together).

[Tinco]

Homunculi do not fit any of the criteria you described. It is not consistent with PnP, at all.

Come on, it's not that hard to understand. This feat makes stuff you command or control or have influence over better. Besides, a battle-ready mechanical dog already is a very loose interpretation of a 'Homunculus'. The effect is not entirely consistent with PnP, that we can agree on, but the name is consistent with a feat from PnP which in it's most basic break-down 'makes stuff you control more powerful'. It's not far stretched to expand the scope of the feat to make it more useful in DDO and keep the name, even if it's a slightly misleading terminology.

[Chai]

Homunculi do not fit any of the criteria you described. It is not consistent with PnP, at all.

Consistent with, and in the spirit of, are different.

None of the TWF or THF feats are consistent with P&P. They are more consistent with EQ than D&D.
The entire reincarnarion system is not consistent with P&P including the feats associated with past lives.
The "boss mob that hits for 110 damage but has 125k HP is more of an MMO thing than having to do with P&P

This list could go on forever. Point is, theres ALOT of other things that are MUCH further away from their P&P roots than augment summoning, and how it works in DDO.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

Besides, a battle-ready mechanical dog already is a very loose interpretation of a 'Homunculus'.

That we can agree on

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

Consistent with, and in the spirit of, are different.

None of the TWF or THF feats are consistent with P&P. They are more consistent with EQ than D&D.
The entire reincarnarion system is not consistent with P&P including the feats associated with past lives.
The "boss mob that hits for 110 damage but has 125k HP is more of an MMO thing than having to do with P&P

This list could go on forever. Point is, theres ALOT of other things that are MUCH further away from their P&P roots than augment summoning, and how it works in DDO.

Chai,

So you are trying to tell me that for the last 4 years I've been playing a game bearing the D&D name, that's vary far from D&D? Oh my, I feel an existential crisis kicking in

P.S.: Also not consistent with PnP a way to pay $2 to my DM to revive myself or a group member inside a dungeon.

[stoerm]

My complaint is with regards to the inconsistency with the ruleset

Jambo, Karibu

[Narmolanya]

What bothers me more is the flame turret as a summons.

"Your flame turret has returned to it's home plane"

What plane would that be? My workbench?

I wish they would change the working to it has run out of fuel or something.

[Eladrin]

That's kind of my train of thought. I think it's more of a "technical" issue than something they fully intended, which is what I'd like a dev to chime in and shed some light

It's intentional, and wasn't accidental. We had to go out of our way to make it work the way it does.

We wanted the Augment Summoning feat to be attractive to certain playstyles, which is why it affects charmed monsters and hirelings as well as actual summoned creatures. Restricted solely to summoned monsters, we felt that it's power and attractiveness was somewhere slightly above "Skill Focus: Swim". For the guy that runs around with a party full of hirelings, on the other hand, the implemented version is actually not always that bad an investment.

It's more of an 'Improved Leadership' type effect and only bears the old name for the sake of consistency with the pnp rules.

We wanted to be able to not feel bad about sticking it in the Wizard bonus feat list.

[smeggy1384]

Wait.. Skill focus: Swim was a bad choice on all of my chars?

[Eladrin]

Wait.. Skill focus: Swim was a bad choice on all of my chars?

There was that lifeguard build a while back...