+3 Stats tome...Yes or no...

[Karadon_II]

I've only had a 20th completion on one raid [Shroud] and chose an Essence over tomes but noobishly I had assumed you got to choose a +3 or +4 tome of whatever stat you wanted [after the whole grind and all]. Now I'm finding out even after multiple 20th completions in a dozen different raids it's so random that one Wiz hasn't even found an INT tome yet?

Screw that! Where's my wallet!

I'll even /sign for +4 tomes it's only a matter of time...

---I'm in the yes camp btw.

[~Cavalier9999]

Yes.

I think we all understand that grind is necessary for an mmo. However, a very small decrease in the grind does not necessarily equal "Easy Button, end of world". There is a world of grind left out there.

[swaix1982]

whatever... cause I'll move on diablo3...

btw.. this is really pay to win.... so my real vote is NO

[BoBo2020]

Yes

[Ungood]

Can't find the Youtube vid...

But...

Here is an interview with WarCry from 2009 with Fernando and then Lead Developer Kate Piaz. In it we read, "Kate Paiz also emphasized that the store is mainly for convenience and is not a way to 'buy one's way to the top'. Items included in the store are adventure packs, basic weapons/armor, convenience items, and accessories. Kate talked about the fun of being able to buy hair dyes and change her characters on a whim."

Then there is this interview Fernando did with TenTonHammer, where he states (with emphasis added):
--
Fernando: Just to restate and emphasize some of what Kate just said there, I think the tact that we take with some of those skeptics out there is that we haven’t changed the core of what’s great about DDO today. On the contrary, we’ve worked to make the game better, and everything that we did to the game is optional.

We urge people to give it a try. We were very conscious of the idea to not “sell the endgame.” We’re not selling the loot that you’re questing for. We’re not selling a quick route to level 20. That’s not what’s there.
--

These things were said back in 2009. Funny how times change, I suppose...

This was informative.

Now, to be fair, there was no promise given. But I am not surprised to see people claim their was. Such is the nature of people to twist and cling to things and make them out to be what they are not.

Did they break their Promise by this? After reading those Two articles, I personally do not think so. To be fair., there is no notation of exclusiveness to raid loot in either of those articles, or that there was something special about raid loot in general. The point he made was simply "loot quested after", ergo, even those dorky +3 frost swords could be constituted a volition of that "Promise". As they are in effect "Selling loot players are questing for" because even loot gen, is still sought after loot (Cannith Crafting was a fine example of showing how good Loot Gen could be)

Now, compounding upon that issue, even in that regard, EXP pots are pretty close to a Quick Route to 20th, in the hands of the right players, yet, I do not see people screaming that promise were broken over their existence in the store.

I don't get the sudden claim now about Promises being broken over +3 Tomes, when, well, That "Promise" pretty much was ground to hamburger by the time I started playing.

[Rawgar]

Yes.

[TempestAlphaOmega]

I'm a yes.

[unimportant stuff]
Will I buy one? No, I can do raids for them
Will it affect me if someone else in my group has bought one? Yes it means they are a better toon and grinding the raids will be easier. Oh wait sorry I forgot, people are saying that because +3 tomes are purchasable in store no one will run raids any more. I assume then what will happen is everyone will buy their +3 stat tomes, then stand around not questing... (that was sarcasm, btw)
And seriously if it makes someone happy to buy a +3 tome, good for them I'm glad they are enjoying themselves instead of banging on about how evil turbine are for wanting our money, no ****, its a business. They don't owe us as a playerbase anything. They sell a product, we buy the product, if you don't like the product, don't buy it. If they didn't make money they'd really suck at their jobs.
[/unimportant stuff]

Count this as a Yes as well

Reasons above are close enough to mine.

[Bigrtt]

No.

The game is easy enough without constantly getting flogged with more and more 'easy button' updates and/or additions (such as these +3 tomes to the DDO Store).
The recent update improved raids somewhat, not in the best way it could have been done but I won't get into that. It was a step in the right direction though...high-level items AND raid items should be worked for, NOT bought.

These sort of things should be rewarded through effort of actually playing the game.

[TempestAlphaOmega]

EDIT: Thought that I wouldn't add anything, but this has to be repeated:
The whole game is about the challenge of getting loot take that away and the game looses it's meaning.

This may be a true statment for you as well as others but it certainly isn't true for everyone.

Many people rate playing the game for the interaction with others in a setting they enjoy as more important than "loot".

Others enjoy the actual "adventures" that they go on more so than the end reward.

Some people play for the challanges they may encounter and overcome.

There are RP and PD players as well as others who, while they enjoy pulling a nice piece of loot, are not focused on loot as the end all and be all of why they play the game.

Everyone more or less likes pulling a nice piece of loot but it is not the most imporatant thing or the make or break point for everyone.

[mobrien316]

Can't find the Youtube vid...

But...

Here is an interview with WarCry from 2009 with Fernando and then Lead Developer Kate Piaz. In it we read, "Kate Paiz also emphasized that the store is mainly for convenience and is not a way to 'buy one's way to the top'. Items included in the store are adventure packs, basic weapons/armor, convenience items, and accessories. Kate talked about the fun of being able to buy hair dyes and change her characters on a whim."

Then there is this interview Fernando did with TenTonHammer, where he states (with emphasis added):
--
Fernando: Just to restate and emphasize some of what Kate just said there, I think the tact that we take with some of those skeptics out there is that we haven’t changed the core of what’s great about DDO today. On the contrary, we’ve worked to make the game better, and everything that we did to the game is optional.

We urge people to give it a try. We were very conscious of the idea to not “sell the endgame.” We’re not selling the loot that you’re questing for. We’re not selling a quick route to level 20. That’s not what’s there.
--

These things were said back in 2009. Funny how times change, I suppose...

I don't see how anyone can interpret that as a promise to never sell raid loot in the store. Reading that quote, it seems pretty clear they were trying to communicate that (at the time of that interview) they have no intention of making all (or even most) of the raid-exclusive loot available in the store, in an effort to avoid "selling the endgame."

I certainly don't take that to mean, "We promise that we will never sell raid loot in the DDO store."

[Micron]

I don't see how anyone can interpret that as a promise to never sell raid loot in the store. Reading that quote, it seems pretty clear they were trying to communicate that (at the time of that interview) they have no intention of making all (or even most) of the raid-exclusive loot available in the store, in an effort to avoid "selling the endgame."

I certainly don't take that to mean, "We promise that we will never sell raid loot in the DDO store."

You probably don't see it because you don't want to see it.

I'm not one to over-analyze things people say but in this case, even though Paiz didn't use the word "promise", it's quite obvious he was very aware of what he was talking about. "We’re not selling the loot that you’re questing for" seems like a pretty clear and straightforward statement to me, and I know loads of people who do specific quests on specific difficulties to get a chance of a tome drop.

So even if you can't technically classify his statement as a promise, there's no doubt whatsoever that their view on what should or shouldn't be available in the store has changed significantly. And one can hardly blame people who are passionate about the game for being concerned.

[Janth]

Yes.. Will there be supreme +3's?

[Astraghal]

Yes, unless they increase the drop rate by at least 10 and guarantee a full set to choose from on 20th completions. I'd wager most +3/+4 tomes that exsist on the servers are bank ornaments.

[Carpone]

Can't find the Youtube vid...

But...

Here is an interview with WarCry from 2009 with Fernando and then Lead Developer Kate Piaz. In it we read, "Kate Paiz also emphasized that the store is mainly for convenience and is not a way to 'buy one's way to the top'. Items included in the store are adventure packs, basic weapons/armor, convenience items, and accessories. Kate talked about the fun of being able to buy hair dyes and change her characters on a whim."

Then there is this interview Fernando did with TenTonHammer, where he states (with emphasis added):
--
Fernando: Just to restate and emphasize some of what Kate just said there, I think the tact that we take with some of those skeptics out there is that we haven’t changed the core of what’s great about DDO today. On the contrary, we’ve worked to make the game better, and everything that we did to the game is optional.

We urge people to give it a try. We were very conscious of the idea to not “sell the endgame.” We’re not selling the loot that you’re questing for. We’re not selling a quick route to level 20. That’s not what’s there.
--

These things were said back in 2009. Funny how times change, I suppose...

Fernando is the same guy who gave flat out wrong information on how Cannith crafting deconstruction work with his paralyzing shard example in a video interview a month before the system went live. There's a huge disconnect at Turbine between "this is our idea" and "this is what we delivered". Take a look at what else Fernando stated: "We’re not selling a quick route to level 20." That may have been true then, but it's not true now. Say hello to 30% XP potions. I don't believe anything Fernando says, and you shouldn't either.

Personally, I don't understand why people are so up in arms with this specific transaction. Someone else getting a +3 tome or any other item from the DDO Store doesn't devalue the enjoyment I get from my game experience.

[JOTMON]

Unfortunately..yes

Too many runs of either no tomes or the wrong tome in my end reward list.
I can hear my credit card swiping now...and the inpending waggro

VIP's still hate you.

[LordRavnos]

Yes, does not bother me in the slightest, if someone wants to drop that much money, good. It helps to keep the game around longer. I am VIP so not worried about my contribution, and I doubt I will buy one since I always plan for even stats from the get go as I hate to plan characters around something I may not have for a very long time.

[Vazok1]

No, but i could be persuaded if +3/+4 tomes you pulled by chance were kept through TR but the store bought were lost on TR

[-Satureon-]

yes for +3 tomes,
no for +4 tomes till they introducing +5 tomes ever

[Infant]

no

[Beethoven]

Chalk me up as in-between.

There have been no promises made that +3 tomes will stay end-game loot forever and ever nor was there any promise made they won't eventually start drop out of chests in new end-game content. I also find it very hard to consider +3 tomes end-game raid loot when +4 tomes aren't.

Currently they still are coveted because they are fairly rare and hard to get. People run raids specifically for the chance of one. I find putting them in the store at this point is premature. Then again, I also believe it is but a matter of time until +3's loose their raid only status, start dropping out of end-game chests and ultimately become what +2 tomes are right now.

So, in general yes - specifically though I think they should not be added as (semi) permanent addition to the store before they also start dropping from other places than raids only. Then again, it is a limited time offer so I won't completely disregard the possibility of Turbine here wanting to make a quick buck before those tomes become more common.