Whirling Steel Fail? Build help please

[Dace]

Hi guys and girls.

I'm planning ahead for my next life and want to run a monk. The first ~10 levels or so I'm intending to get used to the monk playstyle a little (possibly for a future pure class monk), then I'm looking forward to dual wielding a pair of Enduring Conviction longswords in a traditional TWF manner (largely for a break from the norm).

Now this is the build that I've come up with, and I'd like your input.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 12 Monk) 
Hit Points: 376
Spell Points: 40 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 16
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             17                    24
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         15                    17
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               11                    12
Charisma             12                    14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 8 (Monk)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)

So there is it in all its glory. The basic premise is a character for me to get used to monk playstyle with at first, then branching out into something interesting.

The character will be almost exclusively in earth stance. With regards Paladin prestige, I'm undecided but favouring HOTD at the moment.

Good stuff (notes):

DR6
+3 Natural Armor
+1 weapon crit multliplier
Healing Amp Monk upto 30%
Ninja Spy 2 +3d6 sneak attack, water walk, shadow form
Sovereign host +1 to hit w/longswords 2AP
Paladin Charisma upto +2
Divine Might +2 Sacred Damage 1AP
Divine Sacrifice +5d6 light damage, +1 weapon multi 1AP
Exhalted Smite 1
HOTD1 Ghost touch/more healing amp? How much more healing amp?
Improved evasion

Issues:

I have too many toughness feats because I was struggling to find anything better to take, and finding a decent order to put the feats in was awkward because I want to play mostly monk at the start of the character life. This is a list of the feats I wanted to include:

*Whirling Steel Strike (F/M): Longsword Proficiency, Monk Level.
*Two Weapon Fighting (M): Dex 15
*Improved Two Weapon Fighting: Dex 17, BAB 6+
*Greater Two Weapon Fighting: Dex 17, BAB 11+
*Toughness (M)
*Power Attack (M): Strength 13+
*Past Life?
*Improved Critical (F): BAB 8+
*Oversized Two Weapon Fighting (F):
*Weapon Focus (F): BAB 1+

Basic problems with the build:

* I'd like it to be elf instead for longsword bonus/extra flavour but it was hard enough working it out as a human.
* lots of toughness feats, surely there's got to be something better such as...
* past life? I have fighter/paladin/barbarian to pick from, are any of them going to be better suited?

Aside from that, if there's any general feedback/abuse you'd like to throw my way feel free. If you have any constructive comments to make, thats even more welcome.

Thanks.

[Diyon]

Basic problems with the build:

* I'd like it to be elf instead for longsword bonus/extra flavour but it was hard enough working it out as a human.
* lots of toughness feats, surely there's got to be something better such as...

Did you read those points together??? So it was hard to work it out for human because feats I presume??? Yet then you go on to say you have too many toughness feats? So why not drop a toughness and go elf?

[Dace]

Did you read those points together??? So it was hard to work it out for human because feats I presume??? Yet then you go on to say you have too many toughness feats? So why not drop a toughness and go elf?

Yes. Stat spread seemed better as a human.

No. I've got plenty of spares as you can see.

Why not.

[Diyon]

Yes. Stat spread seemed better as a human.

No. I've got plenty of spares as you can see.

Why not.

Ah I see now. Would dropping to 9 wis be so bad though? You could do that and keep everything else the same.

[crimsonrazac]

A monk without wisdom might as well be a gimp barbarian, drop str from 17 to 16 to give yourself more buildpoints to play with.

[axlett]

If you are concerned about the stat spread for elf, it wouldn't be too hard to modify it for the elve's stat penelty/bonuses.

This would be pretty much around the same as the human version's stats:

36 Pt. Build. Elf.
STR: 17 base (13 pts.)
DEX: 15 base (5 pts.)
CON: 14 base (10 pts.)*
INT: 8 base (0 pts.)
WIS: 12 base (4 pts.)
CHA: 12 base (4 pts.)

*seeing as you have 3 toughness feats, you could possibly get away with only 12 base CON. Though, personally I like to stick with atleast 14 base CON on any race.

Some of the only downsides to elf are:
Less Skill Points - Though as a monk, the only skills really needed are Concentration and Balance.
One less feat - You did lose a feat with elf, but seeing as you have 4 toughnesses, it wouldnt be too hard to drop one.
Less Toughness Enhancements - I assume you took human CON so that would leave you with 1 less toughness enh, but since you could still have 3 toughnesses, you would still get 66 hps plus 50 more from other toughness enhancements.

Hope this helps

[mournbladereigns]

Hi guys and girls.

I'm planning ahead for my next life and want to run a monk. The first ~10 levels or so I'm intending to get used to the monk playstyle a little (possibly for a future pure class monk), then I'm looking forward to dual wielding a pair of Enduring Conviction longswords in a traditional TWF manner (largely for a break from the norm).

Now this is the build that I've come up with, and I'd like your input.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 12 Monk) 
Hit Points: 376
Spell Points: 40 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 16
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             17                    24
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         15                    17
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               11                    12
Charisma             12                    14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 8 (Monk)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)

So there is it in all its glory. The basic premise is a character for me to get used to monk playstyle with at first, then branching out into something interesting.

The character will be almost exclusively in earth stance. With regards Paladin prestige, I'm undecided but favouring HOTD at the moment.

Good stuff (notes):

DR6
+3 Natural Armor
+1 weapon crit multliplier
Healing Amp Monk upto 30%
Ninja Spy 2 +3d6 sneak attack, water walk, shadow form
Sovereign host +1 to hit w/longswords 2AP
Paladin Charisma upto +2
Divine Might +2 Sacred Damage 1AP
Divine Sacrifice +5d6 light damage, +1 weapon multi 1AP
Exhalted Smite 1
HOTD1 Ghost touch/more healing amp? How much more healing amp?
Improved evasion

Issues:

I have too many toughness feats because I was struggling to find anything better to take, and finding a decent order to put the feats in was awkward because I want to play mostly monk at the start of the character life. This is a list of the feats I wanted to include:

*Whirling Steel Strike (F/M): Longsword Proficiency, Monk Level.
*Two Weapon Fighting (M): Dex 15
*Improved Two Weapon Fighting: Dex 17, BAB 6+
*Greater Two Weapon Fighting: Dex 17, BAB 11+
*Toughness (M)
*Power Attack (M): Strength 13+
*Past Life?
*Improved Critical (F): BAB 8+
*Oversized Two Weapon Fighting (F):
*Weapon Focus (F): BAB 1+

Basic problems with the build:

* I'd like it to be elf instead for longsword bonus/extra flavour but it was hard enough working it out as a human.
* lots of toughness feats, surely there's got to be something better such as...
* past life? I have fighter/paladin/barbarian to pick from, are any of them going to be better suited?

Aside from that, if there's any general feedback/abuse you'd like to throw my way feel free. If you have any constructive comments to make, thats even more welcome.

Thanks.

One idea for going with Elf is to take 2 of the Phiarlan Dragonmarks, lesser and Least. Which will give you native Displacment clicky. That along with Shadow Fade makes for mad survivability. They stack to an effective 62.5% miss chance against mobs without TS/Ghost touch (i.e. most of them.) I have a 12ftr/7monk/1rog version of this build. BUt it will work well as a 12monk as well.

That along with Monk/HoTD heal amp will still be very effective (HoTD is 10% heal amp per tier).

[Dace]

Right then, respecced the character as an elf and it was actually easier (Elves naturally have longsword feat, so didn't need to take a melee level before whirling steel strike feat to qualify).

Dropped a couple of the toughness feats and replaced with the first two tiers of dragonmarks. If I feel the build is squishy, I'll replace them with toughness. Noticed I needed Dodge to qualify for Ninja Spy so added that in early as well.

Currently specced for HOTD, though it doesnt seem to add a massive amount to the character (except for that 10% healing amp, thanks mournblade) as I doubt I'll be taking my spectrals off.

15AP spare to play with at the end if you've got any idea what to sink them into.

Aside from being a fairly mediocre monk, it should get interesting when the character hits 14 and starts dual wielding.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page



Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(2 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 12 Monk) 
Hit Points: 343
Spell Points: 40 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 16
Will: 14

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             17                 24                   25
Dexterity            15                 17                   17
Constitution         14                 16                   16
Intelligence          9                 10                   10
Wisdom               11                 12                   12
Charisma             12                 14                   14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise III
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Master of Stone
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I

[unbongwah]

They stack to an effective 62.5% miss chance against mobs without TS/Ghost touch (i.e. most of them.)

To be pedantic, they don't stack per se, but there is a separate roll for concealment (Displacement) and incorporeality (Shadow Fade), giving you up to three chances to avoid being hit (the third being AC, of course). Also, while True Seeing negates concealment, it's doesn't negate incorporeality; and vice versa for Ghost Touch.

[Dace]

Right then. I'm just about ready to start this life and have most of the gear I want to TR with.

L1-12 monk, 12-14 as fighter.

Could you just take a quick look through this and give any final opinions as to how effective it'll be to actually play (I'm going to be stuck with it for 20 levels).

Undecided as to final level split, 12/6/2 monk/fighter/pally or 12/6/2 monk/pally/fighter. Would like a second prestige and kensai is probably a better option with a fighter split.

Anyway, please chime in any thoughts or opinions you have on this build before I go for it

Thanks all.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 14 Lawful Good Elf Male
(2 Fighter \ 12 Monk) 
Hit Points: 204
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 11
Will: 11

                  Starting            Ending          
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats        
(36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 14)        
Strength             18                 24            
Dexterity            14                 17            
Constitution         14                 16            
Intelligence          8                 10            
Wisdom               14                 16            
Charisma              8                 10            

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

[Ebforest60]

I've been looking over a build like this pretty heavily myself (though with 2 rogue PL feats.) I'm leaning toward 6 pally just for the extra survivability when solo or shortmanning. The question I have is if the HElf Rogue Dily stacks with Ninja backstab, anyone have any info on that?

I know this isn't an optimal DPS build but for some reason I'm very intrigued by WSS (especially with Earth Stance III...though I suppose pure monk would likely be better DPS and maybe even survivability.)