My morning LolShroud.

[Thrudh]

Pale Masters.

No Pulse, just sayin.

Rage does have a longer duration than Haste.

I do have to give you props for both of these...

[MyHumps]

Most vets on that run, seeing that party chat would be thinking that you, the leader, also failed.

lol do you play on Sarlona?

[TheDearLeader]

So everyone who plays this game has been here three years? Everyday someone runs the Shroud for the first time.

Yeah. And they can either speak up about it, or fail. He didn't speak up. Fail.

The sorc screwed up. He should have said he was new... But he was not "fail". That's what gets me most. That you sent that tell, taking zero responsibility. Most vets on that run, seeing that party chat would be thinking that you, the leader, also failed.

You had some responsibility here. Own up to it. I always make sure everyone knows their job in a PUG with unknown players BEFORE I pull everything from the middle.

I didn't say "Hey bro, you're fail, die in a fire LOL!" I said to another player that I needed their help, and why. Because the Sorcerer I had expected to be capable of doing a job assigned to them in a satisfactory fashion had invalidated themselves upon the basis of obtaining too much aggro. But "Sorc is fail" is a lot easier to fit into a tell, k?

And I somehow highly doubt that you remember in each and every raid you run that you ask "hey, hey guys. Guys? Guys, is it anyone's first time?" - really.

My responsibility is to hit accept to the first 11 people that hit my LFM. Their responsibility is to ensure they are flagged, and to tell someone if it's their first time.

Their responsibility. Not mine. I'ma say that again. Theirs. New player? Your responsibility. Especially when you're second to join, and we're sitting around 20 mins waiting to fill.

And again - I didn't pull jack to the middle. I was on my Spellsinger - I was singing songs, then suddenly we had bosses. I wouldn't be surprised if it was aggro magnet #1 that brought them.

It's also possible he's done the raid 5-10 times already, but never had to do the crystal, so he didn't realize he needed to ask for special instructions.

I have considered that. And to be brutally honest, that makes him a 5-10 times greater failure. Because being in the raid, and knowing that a caster has a job, my first instinct would be to say "well dang, I'm a caster. That might be my job next time. I better ask guy who is doing it this time what that job entails."

[Thrudh]

All I can tell you is if I had been leading that raid, there would have been no issues and no forum thread.

Therefore, it's partly your fault as leader. Because a different leader would have had a different outcome.

[rest]

All I can tell you is if I had been leading that raid, there would have been no issues and no forum thread.

Therefore, it's partly your fault as leader. Because a different leader would have had a different outcome.

lol

All hail the Uber Amazing Raid Leader Turd! Errr I mean Thrudh.

[TheDearLeader]

All I can tell you is if I had been leading that raid, there would have been no issues and no forum thread.

Therefore, it's partly your fault as leader. Because a different leader would have had a different outcome.

I can confirm from this that you, indeed, are not a Sarlona native.

That said - the outcome was that two Bards Greater Shouted a Crystal, and everyone moved on, and we all completed and got Larges.

My Raid still completed - but if a single new player comes here and learns that they have a job in Part 2 aside from feeding their epeen for spell damage numbers, mission accomplished.

[Cyr]

All I can tell you is if I had been leading that raid, there would have been no issues and no forum thread.

Therefore, it's partly your fault as leader. Because a different leader would have had a different outcome.

Yes, I am sure that your parties never fail and that everyone always listens to your instructions.

I would be eager to see these impressive leadership skills in action. In particular I would love to see how you handle the puggers who don't speak english or the ones who pretend that they don't.

[Thebeest]

so to sum this up:

the sorc was fail because : "invalidated themselves upon the basis of obtaining too much aggro". which it appears was obtained prior to being asked to do crystal.

just a ? - why not ask him to do crystal before bosses pulled and aggro obtained?

[Primalhowl]

All I can tell you is if I had been leading that raid, there would have been no issues and no forum thread.

Therefore, it's partly your fault as leader. Because a different leader would have had a different outcome.

I gotta say that I went on my first LoB raid with McPhail and the EW crew (after having made it clear I hadn't done it before...) and they were great at trying to make sure I knew what I was doing. The again, when they asked me to do something, I stopped and listened.

For those unclear on the concept, that is a lesson usually learned in kindergarden... when someone is giving instructions, stop and listen to the instructions.

I would also like to add that the EW folk were very understanding about my total noobage in the raid. I died so many times I was running around naked at the end of it. And outside of some good natured joking, not a single negative comment was made to me.

[Lavek]

In particular I would love to see how you handle the puggers who don't speak english or the ones who pretend that they don't.

This is only on Sarlona

[Thrudh]

For those unclear on the concept, that is a lesson usually learned in kindergarden... when someone is giving instructions, stop and listen to the instructions.

As long as the instructions happen BEFORE you do the task, that works very well...

Look, I'm sure theDearLeader is a good player, and helpful to players who ask questions...

I also agree 100% that new players need to speak up when entering a quest or a raid (especially a raid) for the first time. The sorc was definitely at fault.

But the leader screwed up too.... Telling someone not to get aggro AFTER they got aggro isn't very good leading. Telling someone to go to the crystal when they have no idea where the crystal is isn't very good leading.

Saying "Oh, it's a 3-year old raid. Everyone should auto-magically know what to do" isn't very good leading.

But again, the sorc should have spoken up... I say it's 80/20 or even 90/10 the sorc/leader's fault... But it ain't 100% the sorc.

[clkpacker]

Then you're as silly as them. Having a job means a change - means something different from the norm. If the norm is blasting indiscriminately, then stop that until you know what the new norm is.

Maybe to you--in nearly every situation I can think of, beating down mobs while waiting for or listening to instructions is fine.

The whole thing could've been avoided by the Sorc saying he was new when he popped into the party.

Or by you asking. Everyone has their own expectations on who has responsibility to make sure a new person is identified. I just find you end up with less disappointment and less "HOSHI-" raid moments if you take up the responsibility yourself and don't rely on the other to just know what their responsibility will be.

[Llewndyn]

Pretty smooth run, actually. Portals went down fast, 1/2 of the FvS had Divine Punishment, Harry was a one-rounder, no unusual deaths. Puzzles solved in a reasonable manner.

Oh... save for that Part 2 thing.

Put it out to your guildies running Arcanes for the first time. If they are the only Arcane in a Shroud, they will likely be asked to handle the Crystal.

So we have this Water Savant, yeah? I like Water Savants. Maybe because I play one.

The Sorc is Mysterious man "S".



So.. yeah. In the end, me and the other Bard Greater Shout-ed the Crystal to death.

Thank you for this morning's excitement, Mr. S.

Now, for the helpful part...

Sarlona, in every young caster's life, there may come a time when the party depends on them to do a certain job. If such is the case, it is probably smart to stop what you're doing, and wait for clear instructions on what is necessary of you... not to Polar Ray and DoT Kasquik until no one can tear him away from you in the time it takes me to type two sentences.

The Crystal in Part 2 can be dropped (normally) with a Single Disintegrate. And if not, a Disintegrate + Polar Ray Combo.

Here is what happens in normal slow-mo parties:

• We clear trash.
• Some buffs might get tossed.
• Someone goes to pull.
• After mobs are pulled, and all four are aggro-ed onto someone else, you as the Sorc/Wiz go up to the crystal, which is in the center of the map.
• At this point, it has a barrier around it - we'll get to that.
• The four boss mobs get prepped. When all are prepped, they get killed.
• When all four are dead, that nasty barrier around the Crystal goes down.
• Disintegrate.
• Polar Ray.
• Disintegrate.
• Polar Ray.
• Repeat these two until there is no longer a Crystal.
• Loot.
• Move on to Part 3.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!

You woulda hated me. On my air savant, never carried disintegrate, had better (to me, anyway) things to spend limited spell slots on. 1 lightning bolt, level 3 spell, never took any more than that. LOL at him getting agro though, how hard is it to go into sneak mode and just sit off in a corner while melees drag them off? Can't wait to get back to Shroud level on my main again... great times...

Also I can't believe someone found a good use for greater shout! Levelling up a bard now, shout is complete, utter uselessnesses. I usually use shout just to let baddies know I'm there - never seems even good enough to pull agro

[Cyr]

Or by you asking.

There are actually a remarkable number of things you need to do if you really want to put the blame on the party leader.

They include a voice check (which people apparently can get mad about), a check that everyone can understand you (yup that kills lots of pugs on Sarlona as many do not speak english), a check that everyone will listen to instructions (lol, you will get lots of nopes from people on Sarlona for this one but never from the one guy who really will just ignore you), a is anyone new check (again assumes that the person will actually tell you which they will not always), a is anyone going to just sit at the beginning and pike check (again disqualifies some on Sarlona right away), and finally a are you going to be griefing the party check by randomly charging the dragon or doing something else that everyone knows you shouldn't do (again asking is pointless as no one will admit it, but it happens).

At some point you just have to trust pugs that they are smart enough to listen to the party leader and if they are new to ask what they need to do.

[Llewndyn]

immediately grabbing the aggro of the first mob that definitely is not shaped like a crystal

Alright, +1 for this because I read it in like Bob Barker in Happy Gilmore... "That is NOT a crystal."

[Sarisa]

They include a voice check (which people apparently can get mad about), a check that everyone can understand you (yup that kills lots of pugs on Sarlona as many do not speak english), a check that everyone will listen to instructions (lol, you will get lots of nopes from people on Sarlona for this one but never from the one guy who really will just ignore you), a is anyone new check (again assumes that the person will actually tell you which they will not always), a is anyone going to just sit at the beginning and pike check (again disqualifies some on Sarlona right away), and finally a are you going to be griefing the party check by randomly charging the dragon or doing something else that everyone knows you shouldn't do (again asking is pointless as no one will admit it, but it happens).

At some point you just have to trust pugs that they are smart enough to listen to the party leader and if they are new to ask what they need to do.

Sadly, I've seen all of this in epic raids.

Even giving the spiel every time, in voice and party chat, and you will get people who either can't understand, don't care, don't look, don't listen, and go and do stupid things like:
Improved Precise Shot the Djinn and every fascinated mephit past it
"Leroy" Velah and lock everyone out
Don't listen the first 10 times I ask "Anyone else need TS", and wait until I'm busy healing a group with Lailat swinging away to yell out "GIVE ME TS!"

[TheDearLeader]

You woulda hated me. On my air savant, never carried disintegrate, had better (to me, anyway) things to spend limited spell slots on. 1 lightning bolt, level 3 spell, never took any more than that. LOL at him getting agro though, how hard is it to go into sneak mode and just sit off in a corner while melees drag them off? Can't wait to get back to Shroud level on my main again... great times...

Also I can't believe someone found a good use for greater shout! Levelling up a bard now, shout is complete, utter uselessnesses. I usually use shout just to let baddies know I'm there - never seems even good enough to pull agro

I don't care what spell you use. If I ask if you have crystal, you say yes, and the crystal goes down when all four mobs die at the same time? Great. Wouldn't have hated you at all.