FvS bollocks.

[SirValentine]

Cleric is not possible, since this is offensive divine toon which is better as a fvs due to PrE and bigger mana pool.
Monk splash is not possible either. I can't pass with 10 DR against almost everything, and more sp is always welcome.

I'm not sure I'd agree it's a hands-down FvS-better-than-Clr for offensive casting. There's reasons to go either way, though I'll certainly admit that FvS have some nice advantages.

But I really wasn't trying to convince you to change your build, just trying to enumerate "the highest possible wisdom in the game" that you were asking about.

[riskmal]

If you are completely dumping STR, half-orc doesn't do much. It would be nice if you were a secondary melee.

Halfling, on the other hand, is awesome. Between the crown of retribution and hero's companion, your raid tank is not ever losing aggro, unless someone is griefing (and they would have a hard time).

Yes, I got your point now. If I went for a melee fvs I would surely pick Half-Orc or WF and completely dump wis. My build, however, is a evoker with highest possible wisdom, so there is no point going Half-Orc. Heck, I don't even like melee Fvs/Clerics

Halfling's Hero's Companion is a decent buff, I must admit. But spending 10 AP on a enhancement-starved Favored Soul in exchange for a short-term buff doesn't sound right to me. This build is not meant to be a DPS buffer, we got Bards (and Artificers now) for this

I'm not sure I'd agree it's a hands-down FvS-better-than-Clr for offensive casting. There's reasons to go either way, though I'll certainly admit that FvS have some nice advantages.

But I really wasn't trying to convince you to change your build, just trying to enumerate "the highest possible wisdom in the game" that you were asking about.

Thanks for advices. It was my bad, I forgot to point out highest possible wisdom for a FvS.

[AtomicMew]

I'm sure that these two things are unrelated to one another.

I'm also sure that a +4 tome sitting in your bank forever is the same thing as not having it at all. It's not like you can trade it for a +4 con tome.

The simple fact is that enhancements can be easily changed. Nothing else that you list there can. If you're going to go for an even number, THAT is the place to go.

The problem with tweaking enhancements is that you're still wearing epic helm of the moronanonoan. Yellow slots can be found elsewhere. Fear immunity isn't a big deal (GH clickies?) So you're still wasting an entire equipment space for what basically what amounts to +1 wisdom. Instead, I'd much rather wear helm of frost. While it's not very good either, it's still one piece of the 3-piece Abishai, which lets me free up a slot somewhere else.

[Tobril]

epic helm of the moronanonoan.

I think the real issue you have with this item is that you have trouble with writing the word Mroranan, like I have trouble writing Bananananananas...

[Habreno]

Roll a Cleric instead. Radiant Servant will improve your DP with or without a Favored Soul, while your AoV only works if someone else isn't using it themselves. Plus, maxing WIS will give both a further tier (as you can get +3 from Cleric enhancements) and will give you more SP. You'll be, possibly, 500 SP short of your Favored Soul with entirely more damage and higher DC's.

The reason Radiant Servant improves your DP is because your DP is now at caster level 22, instead of CL 20. Assuming every factor is the same, a Cleric WILL do more damage with Divine Punishment than a Favored Soul will. And it's not merely a few points. Triple stacked, with metas and a 75% clicky alone, you're talking about 32.25 damage PER TICK. Add in 2.75x crits happening 18% of the time (ToD set bonus for +.5x crit multiplier on top of 2.25x from enhancements and a Greater Arcane Lore item for 9% crit chance adding to 9% from enhancements) means those two Caster Levels are a net gain of 42.40875 Damage Per Tick. This gives the Cleric a 21 DPS advantage on Divine Punishment. Even ignoring DP crits, the Cleric still gains 16 more DPS.

[MyHumps]

Roll a Cleric instead. Radiant Servant will improve your DP with or without a Favored Soul, while your AoV only works if someone else isn't using it themselves. Plus, maxing WIS will give both a further tier (as you can get +3 from Cleric enhancements) and will give you more SP. You'll be, possibly, 500 SP short of your Favored Soul with entirely more damage and higher DC's.

False. You deal 30% more damage with AoV, not including the proc from shield of condemnation which has the capability of increase your damage 50%, and effectively have +2 dc against everything. Clerics are inferior to favored souls in regards to divine casting.

[Habreno]

The bonus only works on fire, physical, and untyped damage. Divine Punishment is light based, and is not given said 30% boost.


Also, while I did edit more information in to further explain myself, given equal factors, the Cleric WILL do more damage. The math is there. You add in more bonuses, such as Eardweller, or the aura, and the advantage only grows. The Favored Soul has their aura all the time- but as soon as there is a Cleric in the same group, their DP DPS becomes second fiddle to the Radiant Servant.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...f_Vengeance_II

[MyHumps]

The bonus only works on fire, physical, and untyped damage. Divine Punishment is light based, and is not given said 30% boost.


Also, while I did edit more information in to further explain myself, given equal factors, the Cleric WILL do more damage. The math is there. You add in more bonuses, such as Eardweller, or the aura, and the advantage only grows. The Favored Soul has their aura all the time- but as soon as there is a Cleric in the same group, their DP DPS becomes second fiddle to the Radiant Servant.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...f_Vengeance_II

Divine punishment isn't the only divine spell in the game. Also the only place where it's not a waste of mana is on a boss fight. Effectively making up to 50% more damage WAY more powerful than 2d6+2 extra damage from radiant servent.

Shield of Condemnation
Usage: Passive
Requires All of: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance I
Available to Favored Soul class level 6
Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering divine condemnation, increasing their vulnerability to light and alignment-based damage by 10%, and decreasing their fortification by 10%. This debuff stacks up to 5 times, and is dispelled by Bless effects. Duration: 20 seconds. Proc chance: 10% on taking damage.

[Habreno]

Divine punishment isn't the only divine spell in the game.

And you really expect a Favored Soul to kite entire mobs while in a 6-man party through the only other seriously damage-effective spell, Blade Barrier?

The only other "decent" Divine damage spells would be Flame Strike (L5) and Fire Storm (L8). One is very horrible on damage (Flame Strike) while the other is much harder for Favored Souls to slot (Fire Storm)- and they are the only other spells for which the Favored Soul gains a damage boost the Cleric does not.

Your Searing light is boosted by the caster levels of the Cleric-as is your Nimbus of Light- or at worst both are equal due to CL caps.


If you want to argue that DP is not the only Divine spell, and that the bonus is actually useful outside soloing, show me a divine spell that does decent damage that is boosted by the AoV line.

The problem is, the only one is Blade Barrier, and you'll only get one, maybe 2 hits of damage from it- because nobody in their right mind would kite an entire mob when there's 5 other party members there to help kill it. 11 others, in raids.


And as I had said, the Favored Soul will have that all the time- but as soon as a Cleric steps in, he is no longer the only one with that advantage. Granted, the Favored Soul will win when there is no Cleric. But in all honesty, how often does that happen? Perhaps its a server or playtime difference, but I see many more Clerics than Favored Souls.

[MyHumps]

And you really expect a Favored Soul to kite entire mobs while in a 6-man party through the only other seriously damage-effective spell, Blade Barrier?

The only other "decent" Divine damage spells would be Flame Strike (L5) and Fire Storm (L8). One is very horrible on damage (Flame Strike) while the other is much harder for Favored Souls to slot (Fire Storm)- and they are the only other spells for which the Favored Soul gains a damage boost the Cleric does not.

Your Searing light is boosted by the caster levels of the Cleric-as is your Nimbus of Light- or at worst both are equal due to CL caps.


If you want to argue that DP is not the only Divine spell, and that the bonus is actually useful outside soloing, show me a divine spell that does decent damage that is boosted by the AoV line.

The problem is, the only one is Blade Barrier, and you'll only get one, maybe 2 hits of damage from it- because nobody in their right mind would kite an entire mob when there's 5 other party members there to help kill it. 11 others, in raids.

Implosion.

[Habreno]

Okay, 130 vs 100 damage on save.

You're building an EVOKER FAVORED SOUL. Stuff ain't supposed to save on it. Renders very little of a point if it's instakilled- because it doesn't matter how much the save damage gets boosted when the save is failed.

[ShadowFlash]

I can't find my notes ATM, but the highest possible Divine Punishment is done by a cleric RSII with a FvS AoV in the group. No possible argument to this.

Taken seperatley however is where things get fuzzy. Assuming each is the only Divine in a party, the FvS needs to proc to Tier II to surpass the Cleric's DP. It get's even fuzzier, when the length of the de-buff is factored in and at precisely what point in the stacking (tic) process it is achieved. This is where I gave up on the math. There are way to many variables and way to many opinions on the acceptable "average" de-buff tier maintained.

Suffice it to say, the FvS is in fact capable of surpassing the cleric DP, but the Cleric's DP is much more reliable (purely from a math calculation standpoint) and can easily show up a FvS as long as there's a FvS present to show up

From my point of view, I view them as equal(ish)

[MyHumps]

Okay, 130 vs 100 damage on save.

You're building an EVOKER FAVORED SOUL. Stuff ain't supposed to save on it. Renders very little of a point if it's instakilled- because it doesn't matter how much the save damage gets boosted when the save is failed.

All mobs receive effectively -2 on all their saves when around a favored soul, effectively adding +2 to your DCs as well as everyone around you. I was really too lazy to dredge of the divine spellbook, but I'll list the spells that this makes better. The following spells are all boosted by AoV: soundburst, glyph of warding, holy smite, flame strike, slay living, cometfall, destruction, symbol of persuasion, blade barrier, harm, symbol of fear, symbol of stunning, fire storm, symbol of death, implosion.

That's even eliminating most of the garbage spells. Building a cleric because it does more damage with one spell is.. kind of silly.

[AtomicMew]

You do realize that the Archon alone more than makes up for the difference in divine punishment.

For an evoker-focused divine, FvS is very clearly the way to go.

[ShadowFlash]

You do realize that the Archon alone more than makes up for the difference in divine punishment.

For an evoker-focused divine, FvS is very clearly the way to go.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly, not to mention that IF there is a FvS and a cleric in the same party, what are the chances that the cleric is gonna be viewed as the evoker, and the FvS the healer with a de-buff Of course BOTH "should" be stacking DP's, but it is more realistic to assume the cleric may miss a stack here and there due to healing duties more often than the FvS.

[Habreno]

All mobs receive effectively -2 on all their saves when around a favored soul, effectively adding +2 to your DCs as well as everyone around you. I was really too lazy to dredge of the divine spellbook, but I'll list the spells that this makes better. The following spells are all boosted by AoV: soundburst, glyph of warding, holy smite, flame strike, slay living, cometfall, destruction, symbol of persuasion, blade barrier, harm, symbol of fear, symbol of stunning, fire storm, symbol of death, implosion.

That's even eliminating most of the garbage spells. Building a cleric because it does more damage with one spell is.. kind of silly.

You gain 30% more damage on SAVES with the insta kills (slay living, destruction, implosion) which, if you built right, shouldn't be saved on- totally useless damage.

You gain 30% more damage on any hit with Soundburst, Glyph of Warding, Holy Smite, Flame Strike, Cometfall, Blade Barrier, Fire Storm. Everything else is either an instakill (damage boosted on saves only), not a damage spell (Symbol of Persuasion/Fear/Death), or not applicable due to not being affected (Harm-which is negative energy). Taking this list of spells, I will put in green those which are useful solo and grouped, blue when grouped, and yellow solo. Red/white means they are not useful damage for their SP in any setting-the only two exceptions here are Soundburst and Cometfall, which are more often used for the CC aspect of them (in red).

Soundburst, Glyph of Warding (also has a greater form. Same category), Holy Smite, Flame Strike, Cometfall, Blade Barrier, Fire Storm.

Eight spells. Of which two are any good for their damage. A third in soloing, because the blindness is not fun for groups trying to chase a wildly swinging blinded mob. Two are more used for their CC ability- Cometfall being one of few ranged AoE Reflex saves, Soundburst being an AoE fort save.

Nothing else on your list really truly matters. Any of your symbols merely improves the save DC- and assuming equal factors, a Cleric will have the higher DC due to more WIS enhancements. The instakills get higher DC's- but so will the Cleric. At least with an instakill you do get more damage on saves, but that's not the point of the spells. Harm is not even affected because it's negative energy.


I guess the point is you're getting 30% more damage on only a few spells, and even fewer of those are even worth casting for that aspect. Anything else, the Cleric will have the advantage.

[MyHumps]

You gain 30% more damage on SAVES with the insta kills (slay living, destruction, implosion) which, if you built right, shouldn't be saved on- totally useless damage.

Sorry I must not have been clear. I'll try to clarify any confusion I may have had in my previous posts. I've never once cared about the extra damage that these spells do on a fail save, which is quite frankly paltry and nothing I'm sure anyone cares about. When I meant that AoV benefited them I was referring to the aura of menace.

Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance I

Usage: Passive
Cost: 4 action points
Progression: 16 action points
Requires One of: Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, Heighten Spell, Spell Focus: Evocation
Requires All of: Favored Soul Smiting II, Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II
Available to Favored Soul class level 6
The only thing stronger than your faith is the fire you use to burn away those who stand against the will of the gods. Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering divine condemnation rendering them vulnerable to divine attacks, and you project a 15 meter Aura of Menace, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2. You deal 20% additional damage with spells that deal fire, physical, or untyped damage, and can name an ally your 'Champion', transferring your shield of condemnation to them and damaging opponents that strike them in melee.

The bolded part is really what matters here, in addition to up to 80% more damage from the prestige class.

You gain 30% more damage on any hit with Soundburst

This is not a damage spell, it's a cc spell. The damage on this spell quite frankly sucks.

Glyph of Warding, Holy Smite, Flame Strike, Cometfall, Blade Barrier, Fire Storm.

So if I'm getting this straight that's a total of 5 spells that get an increase to damage from the AoV prestige class. This is not including holy smite which is good damage and gets no benefit from it unless struck in combat, and soundburst which is a **** dps spell.

Everything else is either an instakill (damage boosted on saves only), not a damage spell (Symbol of Persuasion/Fear/Death), or not applicable due to not being affected (Harm-which is negative energy

All of these spells get a boost from the AoV prestige class because the mobs always have -2 to their saves applied to them in all settings, also harm has a save most certainly is applicable in regards to the AoV prestige.

Soundburst, Glyph of Warding (also has a greater form. Same category), Holy Smite, Flame Strike, Cometfall, Blade Barrier, Fire Storm.

Eight spells. Of which two are any good for their damage. A third in soloing, because the blindness is not fun for groups trying to chase a wildly swinging blinded mob. Two are more used for their CC ability- Cometfall being one of few ranged AoE Reflex saves, Soundburst being an AoE fort save.

All of these spells are as good as or better to their arcane equivalent. Soundburst is an amazing cc spell, glyph of warding is essentially better than fireball, same with firestorm/flame strike, cometfall is another equally amazing cc spell and the damage output is actually quite good once you have the DCs so everything doesn't save on a 2, blade barrier is the best consistent AoE spell in the game because there is no way to have resistance against it, holy smite which is an instant damage spell and essentially a displacement that works even when mobs have true seeing. All of these spells ALL benefit from the extra -2 saving throws from the AoV prestige.

Nothing else on your list really truly matters. Any of your symbols merely improves the save DC- and assuming equal factors, a Cleric will have the higher DC due to more WIS enhancements. The instakills get higher DC's- but so will the Cleric. At least with an instakill you do get more damage on saves, but that's not the point of the spells. Harm is not even affected because it's negative energy.

Um, clerics have +1 wisdom which puts them exactly 1 dc ahead of favored souls in perfectly ideal gear. HOWEVER with the AoV prestige class everything has -2 saving throws which puts the favored soul 1 dc ahead in all situations, now you might say hey that's not really that much but factoring in wings, lantern archon, 10 dr, inherent resists, a crapload more hp, and you have one the most deadly and survivable casters in the entire game as well as an additional +1 dc ahead of clerics. That's not worth an extra 2d6+2 damage because you can cast level 22 DP.

I guess the point is you're getting 30% more damage on only a few spells, and even fewer of those are even worth casting for that aspect. Anything else, the Cleric will have the advantage.

None of the spells mentioned do the cleric get the advantage except one spell in the game, and that's divine punishment. Everything else the favored soul excels in without a doubt. Clerics are better healers, but favored souls are by far better casters in all situations. Maybe this will change when clerics get their new prestige class, but that's probably not going to happen for a long time.

[Matuse]

AoV also boosts melee damage, which RS does not.

[AndyD47]

Playing an evoker FvS with the searing light capstone,the light damage vulnerability of AoV procs fairly often and adds a nice chunk to freebie damage along with the shoulder cannon.

Really nice having that capstone on a caster imo,saves sp on killing single mobs and works really nice with AoV.

The 20% additional damage to BB is pretty nice too.

[riskmal]

Roll a Cleric instead. Radiant Servant will improve your DP with or without a Favored Soul, while your AoV only works if someone else isn't using it themselves. Plus, maxing WIS will give both a further tier (as you can get +3 from Cleric enhancements) and will give you more SP. You'll be, possibly, 500 SP short of your Favored Soul with entirely more damage and higher DC's.

The reason Radiant Servant improves your DP is because your DP is now at caster level 22, instead of CL 20. Assuming every factor is the same, a Cleric WILL do more damage with Divine Punishment than a Favored Soul will. And it's not merely a few points. Triple stacked, with metas and a 75% clicky alone, you're talking about 32.25 damage PER TICK. Add in 2.75x crits happening 18% of the time (ToD set bonus for +.5x crit multiplier on top of 2.25x from enhancements and a Greater Arcane Lore item for 9% crit chance adding to 9% from enhancements) means those two Caster Levels are a net gain of 42.40875 Damage Per Tick. This gives the Cleric a 21 DPS advantage on Divine Punishment. Even ignoring DP crits, the Cleric still gains 16 more DPS.

The reasons I want to play FvS instead of cleric are simple. FvS gets more SP, has better offensive PrE (shoulder cannon yay) and gets more dmg from blade barrier which I'll be using alot (soloing epics). I'm not worried about less dmg from divine punishment, ~2k dmg on crit with triple stack is more then enough.