Embracing the Ranger: Pure 20 Tempest

[NaturalHazard]

I still haven't bought arti from the store yet. In fact, I can't decide whether I want Vale, Arti, or Delera's. D:

get vale, or buy the new pack for those new weapons. Dont get deleras if it means your going to miss out on vale.

[NaturalHazard]

My AA is by far my most useful toon in the new content (gotta re-do some stuff on my other mooks) so yeah, but the capstone:

1. Doesn't work as advertised. 25% my ass
2. Doesn't stack with the AA ToD set so when you get that you can mostly make up for not having the capstone on a non-full ranger. Nobody will fight you for the AA ring anyway.

unless its a monk desperate for another burst ring............ just lie and say your AA and everyone will make him feel guilty.

Also with the feats, might be worth it to put in maximize and do some healing off the blue bar esp if you pick up a torc and make a con opt? Ive never regretted taking a meta magic on my ranger.

but get helf/human heal amp, maximize, ardour clickie/or pot, devotion **** be supprised at how well you can self heal.

[Aashrym]

Then what would you consider the best melee buffs in the game ( as far as spells )?

30 pt. resists
Heals ( and a ranger with the right gear/enhancements can do fine self-healing )
FoM
Barkskin
Jump
Ram's Might


What else is needed that isn't readily available???

30 pt resists are readily available from other casters, arties, and permanent effects on items worn. It is one of the most common buffs available. Ram's might is a nice little boost but it is just a little boost to self. Barkskin is only good for an AC tank build and is pretty much on par with inspire heroics but with a slightly better AC and without the saving throw bonuses; it can be very useful but is circumstantial. Jump is also very common in potions, clickies, and skill buffs. I have no trouble hitting the hard cap on jump with or without the spell. FoM is handy and cannot be bought but clerics, FvS, and bards carry that one too.

It is nice to have self healing option on melee but the listed options would not be considered top melee buffs to me.

When I think of top melee buffs the first things that come to mind are inspire courage, haste, divine power, blur, displacement, greater heroism, and the upcoming deadly weapon. Possibly death ward, good hope, rage, and divine favor as well.

[bandyman1]

It is nice to have self healing option on melee but the listed options would not be considered top melee buffs to me.

When I think of top melee buffs the first things that come to mind are inspire courage, haste, divine power, blur, displacement, greater heroism, and the upcoming deadly weapon. Possibly death ward, good hope, rage, and divine favor as well.

Inspire courage - Not a spell
Haste - Comes from pots or readily available from items
Divine Power - Item again
Blur- Comes in permenent form on many items
Displacement - Item again
GH - Are we there yet?

As for the other four; You can't be serious.


What isn't covered? +5 Natural Armor, FoM ( one raid item in the entire game ), Ram's Might, and 30 point resists.

Oh wait! Those are all ranger spells. And having caster level = to character level means that you don't even need extend.

Who'd have thunk it???!!!???

[Aashrym]

Inspire courage - Not a spell
Haste - Comes from pots or readily available from items
Divine Power - Item again
Blur- Comes in permenent form on many items
Displacement - Item again
GH - Are we there yet?

As for the other four; You can't be serious.


What isn't covered? +5 Natural Armor, FoM ( one raid item in the entire game ), Ram's Might, and 30 point resists.

Oh wait! Those are all ranger spells. And having caster level = to character level means that you don't even need extend.

Who'd have thunk it???!!!???

30 point resists come on items too. I said that in my last post. Do you really think a ranger having a spell 5 other classes also have that anyone can get is all that but a 4 minute haste can be covered with clickies? You cannot claim an item on one spell list is available on items and ignore the fact the spell on your list is also on items.

FoM is also available as a spell on bards, clerics, fvs's, and cookies (you missed that one and if I can have a stockpile so can others) each of whom provides more buffs. The reality is that you have 2 points of natural armor over a vendor pot on a buff when AC is typically not the common build and ram's might which is a self only small buff.

What you argued with was the caster level being important for the spells but at half caster level all you would lose 1 point of natural AC, 10 points of elemental resist, and some duration. Whoopdee-fricken-do. That would have no impact on this game and that is why it would be pointless to do such a thing. Everyone would still have full resists, just not from rangers casting it. Everyone would still have FoM. Everyone would still have jump. Everyone who can get Ram's Might would still have it. Cutting back the caster level would not make any difference with the exception rangers would have less usefulness.

Those benefits are so small there would be no point is cutting back the caster level if rangers get a pet. The difference is almost negligible and it would not stop any party from having access to the same benefits they have now. The party members would lose the ability to get 1 natural AC until we have druids. OMG we better take that away from rangers if they get a pet!!

Ignoring inspire courage does not stop it from being a buff and better than anything you have either. Denial does not change reality. I pffft at your ram's might.

I guess a good summary would be I do not agree that barkskin and ram's might are top melee buffs. I'm thinking you are just trying to mess with my tuque now.

[bandyman1]

30 point resists come on items too. I said that in my last post. Do you really think a ranger having a spell 5 other classes also have that anyone can get is all that but a 4 minute haste can be covered with clickies? You cannot claim an item on one spell list is available on items and ignore the fact the spell on your list is also on items.

FoM is also available as a spell on bards, clerics, fvs's, and cookies (you missed that one and if I can have a stockpile so can others) each of whom provides more buffs. The reality is that you have 2 points of natural armor over a vendor pot on a buff when AC is typically not the common build and ram's might which is a self only small buff.

What you argued with was the caster level being important for the spells but at half caster level all you would lose 1 point of natural AC, 10 points of elemental resist, and some duration. Whoopdee-fricken-do. That would have no impact on this game and that is why it would be pointless to do such a thing. Everyone would still have full resists, just not from rangers casting it. Everyone would still have FoM. Everyone would still have jump. Everyone who can get Ram's Might would still have it. Cutting back the caster level would not make any difference with the exception rangers would have less usefulness.

Those benefits are so small there would be no point is cutting back the caster level if rangers get a pet. The difference is almost negligible and it would not stop any party from having access to the same benefits they have now. The party members would lose the ability to get 1 natural AC until we have druids. OMG we better take that away from rangers if they get a pet!!

Ignoring inspire courage does not stop it from being a buff and better than anything you have either. Denial does not change reality. I pffft at your ram's might.

I guess a good summary would be I do not agree that barkskin and ram's might are top melee buffs. I'm thinking you are just trying to mess with my tuque now.

No, I do not try to mess with you.

The fact of the matter is, that the ranger doesn't need other sourses for his 30 point resists. Yes; 30 point resists come on items. Do you have one slotted for each energy type?

He has them just via the fact that he's a ranger.

The same goes for FoM, and any of the other buffs on that list. He's not dependant on having other classes in the party, or on limited resourses.

Ram's might is adds both a Str bonus that stacks with everything currently in the game, and bonus damage on top of that which does the same; That bonus damage is a minimal buff??? Since when? Have you seen the amount of grinding most players are willing to put in for a similar increase in damage???

Then what would you consider the best melee buffs in the game ( as far as spells )?

Inspire courage is not a spell. What part of my post did you miss???

[karl_k0ch]

Inspire courage is not a spell. What part of my post did you miss???

And because it's not a spell, it's not considered to be a buff?

[Aashrym]

No, I do not try to mess with you.

The fact of the matter is, that the ranger doesn't need other sourses for his 30 point resists. Yes; 30 point resists come on items. Do you have one slotted for each energy type?

He has them just via the fact that he's a ranger.

The same goes for FoM, and any of the other buffs on that list. He's not dependant on having other classes in the party, or on limited resourses.

Ram's might is adds both a Str bonus that stacks with everything currently in the game, and bonus damage on top of that which does the same; That bonus damage is a minimal buff??? Since when? Have you seen the amount of grinding most players are willing to put in for a similar increase in damage???

So what I think you mean to say is that you are pretty self sufficient and I would not disagree. That still does not make those the best melee buffs around, which is where I think we were disagreeing.

I know darn well what players will do to each out that bit of strength but I can go with rage on a barb or fire stance on a monk and see self buffing STR that stacks. Ram's might is a nice little buff but it is still a small buff that cannot be applied to others. Useful does not equal best and when I replied I was looking at what it actually does, not the fact it stacks. Stacking is what makes it useful.

As far as my resists go I use ship buffs to cover resists. I carry 7th or 10th level wands, or 20 resist pots, or can cast the spells, and have several items I do not keep constantly equipped but can swap to if I cannot cast the spell myself and will need that extra 10 resist. My arti can cast it or wand it for the 30 resist.

Having it on the ranger spell list is convenient, and handy for soloing, but with the abundance of ways to get resists it would be pointless to cut back on ranger caster levels when that is really the only significant spell affected by such a change.

Inspire courage is not a spell. What part of my post did you miss???

The reason behind omitting buffs available just because they are not coming from the SP bar. The 'I have the best melee buffs available because I want to ignore the fact inspire courage exists and disqualify it as a relevant buff' attitude does not make a lot of sense to me.

[bandyman1]

And because it's not a spell, it's not considered to be a buff?

No, it doesn't make it not a buff.

It simply makes it a buff that's not available to anyone, unless a bard is in the party.

Therefore, access to it is highly situational, unlike any of the other buffs we were discussing.

[Aashrym]

No, it doesn't make it not a buff.

It simply makes it a buff that's not available to anyone, unless a bard is in the party.

Therefore, access to it is highly situational, unlike any of the other buffs we were discussing.

It's still one of the best buffs in the game, which is what I thought we were discussing. You brought up +5 natural armor class which would mean needing a ranger in the party for other classes and is far more situational than bonus hit and damage from inspire courage.

Ram's might is not available to any other class at all, with or without a ranger, so should we exclude it for the same reason as a buff?

That reply boils down to 'it does not count because rangers do not have it so therefore rangers do have the best buffs. Because I do not count ones they do not have.'

I think we are derailing the thread tho. I swinging back to not seeing a need to remove the full casting level or remove both combat styles if a pet were to be added because the pet would need to increase the useful beyond the loss of those abilities and at this point I cannot see the pet increasing the ranger usefulness to groups to the point of making up for those changes and all we would see is a decrease in what a ranger brings to a group instead of an increase.

@ the OP: I think Junk's advice on the feats and splashing is pretty good but if you want to go pure tempest you would need to go human and make a choice on giving up maximize, falchion, toughness, or possibly power attack and that would be a tough choice. My thoughts would be maximize or falchion and choosing between more damage or the nice burst of self healing.

[grodon9999]

it's kinda funny and my opinion on this is opposite of what it was a month ago, but . . .

Arcane Archer > Tempest.

And splash for more feats and stuff, Ranger 20 is still pointless.

[Zachski]

it's kinda funny and my opinion on this is opposite of what it was a month ago, but . . .

Arcane Archer > Tempest.

And splash for more feats and stuff, Ranger 20 is still pointless.

...Wait, splash on an AA? What about the capstone? >_>

Okay, I'd like to see some pure AA builds, too, if at all possible. May as well make the best of it.

[grodon9999]

...Wait, splash on an AA? What about the capstone? >_>

Okay, I'd like to see some pure AA builds, too, if at all possible. May as well make the best of it.

The capstone sucks. it doesn't work as advertised and doesn't stack with the AA set from ToD. Pure ranger is pointless.

[unbongwah]

IIRC, the rgr capstone still provides a bigger atk speed boost than AA ToD set; and by having the capstone you can go for a different ToD set - e.g., Shintao for +2 to-hit & dmg.

[grodon9999]

IIRC, the rgr capstone still provides a bigger atk speed boost than AA ToD set; and by having the capstone you can go for a different ToD set - e.g., Shintao for +2 to-hit & dmg.

I'll take my 18.5 points of sneak attack (3 rogue levels) and 44 more HP (two toughness feats from two Monk levels) over that any time.

Can get out 96 arrows in a hasted many-shot, what can a capstoned's ranger do>