Cunning Greetings- A Build By Request

[nerdychaz]

Well, for my first build request, I recieved a request for what I would call an extreme build. The request was for a High Dexterity High Int Build for great evasion and great assassination DC's. The Player is planning to TR (first life) and has a +2 Int Tome as well as the Epic Midnight Greetings.

With the standard HP gear (+45 Greensteel, GFL, Minos, +6 con), rage spell, and a little Argo favor, the build reaches 427 HP. The player plans to have the Epic Spyglass with the +1 Exc. INT epic ritual on it and hopefully a +3 INT tome. It can reach an assassinate DC of 43 with the Midnight greetings.

In discussions with the player, I was very clear that carry weight had to be managed and strength had to be constantly buffed in order to avoid becoming encumbered. This also means having to leave loot behind. The player was ready for this challenge.

I rounded all stats at 20 with +2 tomes, as I figure those will be found over time, and added the prayed for +3 INT tome.

Rather than add all the guile and dexterity enhancements, I chose to maximize the cunning enhancements and halfling luck - reflex enhancements. These took the AP further, and I would much rather hit more often and apply 17d6 SA damage than hit less and add +2 to that damage.

Furthermore Improved Crit Slashing is there for the Epic Midnight Greetings.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1

DDO Character Planner Home Page

 

Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Male

(20 Rogue)

Hit Points: 242

Spell Points: 0

BAB: 15\15\20\25\25

Fortitude: 10

Reflex: 24

Will: 7

 

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement

Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats

(34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)

Strength              8                 10                   10

Dexterity            18                 25                   26

Constitution         14                 16                   16

Intelligence         18                 21                   23

Wisdom                8                 10                   10

Charisma              8                 10                   10

 

Tomes Used

+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20

+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20

+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20

+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20



                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement

                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills

Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)

Balance               8                 31                   32

Bluff                 3                 23                   30

Concentration         2                  3                    4

Diplomacy             3                 23                   24

Disable Device        8                 29                   30

Haggle               -1                 13                   14

Heal                 -1                  0                    1

Hide                  8                 31                   44

Intimidate           -1                  0                    1

Jump                  3                 23                   26

Listen               -1                  0                    3

Move Silently         8                 31                   42

Open Lock             8                 31                   32

Perform              n/a                n/a                   n/a

Repair                4                  6                    7

Search                8                 29                   30

Spot                  3                 23                   24

Swim                 -1                  0                    1

Tumble                8                 31                   32

Use Magic Device      3                 23                   24



Level 1 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+4)

Skill: Bluff (+4)

Skill: Diplomacy (+4)

Skill: Disable Device (+4)

Skill: Hide (+4)

Skill: Jump (+4)

Skill: Move Silently (+4)

Skill: Open Lock (+4)

Skill: Search (+4)

Skill: Spot (+4)

Skill: Tumble (+4)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)

Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue

Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Feat: (Automatic) Attack

Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility

Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery

Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears

Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck

Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus

Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Thrown Weapon Focus

Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability

Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency

Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier

Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword

Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow

Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency

Feat: (Automatic) Sneak

Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack

Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding

 

 

Level 2 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting

Feat: (Automatic) Evasion

Feat: (Automatic) Sunder

Feat: (Automatic) Trip

 

 

Level 3 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse

Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense

 

 

Level 4 (Rogue)

Ability Raise: DEX

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Feat: (Automatic) Trapmaking

Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge

 

 

Level 5 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

 

 

Level 6 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting

 

 

Level 7 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

 

 

Level 8 (Rogue)

Ability Raise: DEX

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Haggle (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge

 

 

Level 9 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Haggle (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

 

 

Level 10 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Haggle (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion

 

 

Level 11 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Haggle (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

 

 

Level 12 (Rogue)

Ability Raise: DEX

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Haggle (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons

 

 

Level 13 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Haggle (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist

 

 

Level 14 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Haggle (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

 

 

Level 15 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Haggle (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

 

 

Level 16 (Rogue)

Ability Raise: DEX

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Haggle (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike

 

 

Level 17 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Haggle (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

 

 

Level 18 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Haggle (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

 

 

Level 19 (Rogue)

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Haggle (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery

 

 

Level 20 (Rogue)

Ability Raise: DEX

Skill: Balance (+1)

Skill: Bluff (+1)

Skill: Diplomacy (+1)

Skill: Disable Device (+1)

Skill: Haggle (+1)

Skill: Hide (+1)

Skill: Jump (+1)

Skill: Move Silently (+1)

Skill: Open Lock (+1)

Skill: Search (+1)

Skill: Spot (+1)

Skill: Tumble (+1)

Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I

Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II

Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I

Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I

Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II

Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III

Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV

Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow

Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I

Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I

Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II

Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III

Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV

Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) I

Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) II

Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) III

Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I

Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II

Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III

Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV

Enhancement: Racial Toughness I

Enhancement: Racial Toughness II

Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I

Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II

Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III

Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I

Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II

Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III

Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV

Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I

Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II

Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III

Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV

Enhancement: Improved Hide I

Enhancement: Improved Hide II

Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I

Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II

[karl_k0ch]

Everytime you roll a TR1 finesse rogue, god kills a hamster. (Yes, one of the server hamsters. This is why it's so laggy recently)

Why IC: Pierce and IC: Slash? How much weapon switching are you planning to do? Isn't Dual EMG the weapon of choice anyway? Why no Rogue past life:Sneak of Shadows?

Cunning IV, but Guile 0? Why roll a halfling in the first place, then?

Is that amount of Tumble really necessary?

By not taking PA you do sacrifice a huge amount of damage.

What's your Assassinate DC, actually?

And as a side note: These extra line breaks actually decrease the readability of the build.

[HidalgoXaran]

Hi, I am the one who asked for Nerdy to create such a build so I'll give feedback.

And as a side note: These extra line breaks actually decrease the readability of the build.

Agreed. Dumping the skills from the build would also help. Anyway, with such a high Intel, it doesnt matter that much in my opininon.


-What happens if you drop the Dex ability raise and take Intel instead? Would the "to hit" be that much affected? Do rogue dexterity stacks with halfling dexterity? If yes, We could had it. If no, than.. nevermind!

-Looking at my present build, I noticed that I pretty much hit all the trash with Epic midnight Greeting. I dont score one Epic bosses, but anyway, I usually change weapon for polycurse and a DR breaker. Once Boss is cursed and exhausted, I switch to 2 DR breaker. So, is improve critical slashing necessary? Disintegration hits on vorpal and assassinate doesnt need critical to hit.

-As stated Karl, I wonder if Halfling is that much a necessity. The advantage of halfling being the damage boost to SA, if we drop that, than halfing isnt necessary anymore.

Those are my first comments! Hope people will give feedback!

Tks again!

HidalgoX

[nerdychaz]

Well, as I said, this was a build by request. It is not what I would necessarilly choose to play. I love Strength way too much to do that to myself.

My current TR sure turns a lot of heads. No one expects to see a rogue show up to a quest with nothing on (hey, I didn't have any useful robes, so why not right?) a dead rabbit on their head, and holding a big flaming greensteel radiance falchion. People think I'm nuts. It's because I am.

So long story short, i approve of rogue-ing differently, the Requester is fully aware of the negatives of the build, and plans to finesse his (or her) way to 20 and assassinating everything on the way.

The reason for Imp. Crit. Slash and Pierce is that the requester has the Epic Midnight Greetings (and I planned to take advantage of that as much as possible) and wants to use Rapiers as well, if not wielding both at the same time. With a light weapon, there is no need for OTWF so IC slash it is!

[HidalgoXaran]

The reason for Imp. Crit. Slash and Pierce is that the requester has the Epic Midnight Greetings

Yeah, as stated above, that requester is... me. :P

The build is up, it would be interesting to argue about its cons and pros, about equipment as well.

HidalgoX

[karl_k0ch]

The reason for Imp. Crit. Slash and Pierce is that the requester has the Epic Midnight Greetings (and I planned to take advantage of that as much as possible) and wants to use Rapiers as well, if not wielding both at the same time. With a light weapon, there is no need for OTWF so IC slash it is!

How many rapiers are already crafted?

If there are none, there is another neat option: Scimiars can be given proficiency via Master's Touch, they are slashing weapons, and they have the same crit profile as Rapiers. It needs a bit of preparation after every shrine, but it saves a feat.

If you like rapiers, you can also opt to get Rapiers for situational fights where Crits don't matter, i.e. as Undead-, Construct-, and Elemental beater. This way you have a good weapon which does not need the Master's Touch Mumbo-Jumbo.

[unbongwah]

An alternate approach: tried to keep the crazy flavor but with slightly less gimpage. Dropped INT and upped STR: I don't consider +1 Assassinate DC & some extra skill pts worth dropping Power Atk. At endgame either dual-wield epic Midnight Greetings or eMG + a Lit2 kukri. Didn't notice at first your build was a TR and now I'm too tired to figure out how to redo the stats to match.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Female
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 242
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 22
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    14
Dexterity            18                    28
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         16                    20
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II

[barryman5000]

... Didn't notice at first your build was a TR and now I'm too tired to figure out how to redo the stats to match.

I'd say just drop the 2 points into charisma. Extra umd and bluff. Otherwise I'd go with this build.

[Kale_Hagan]

One REALLY important thing to remember is that Epic Midnight Greetings is a poor Raid/Boss weapon - it has Improved Deception, which totally screws up aggro.

I use my EMG on all trash, and then switch to either my Rad2/Epic Cutthroat or DR breakers if necessary for any raid or boss mobs.