SD and madstone

[Mr_Tank]

Is there any reason madstone and caster rage will not proc/work with the SD stance? I know they are different bones types since these buffs can be cast before one goes in to SD stance and they will stack. Thoughts ideas?

[Thrudh]

Well, they give a negative to AC, so most Stalwarts didn't want them active when in stance.

But now that the SD movement penalty is only 10%, I can see keeping the stance on even when in DPS mode, just for the extra hps and STR.

[Dragaer]

I think it was annoying before. DPSers got the STR/CON bonus from rage and madstone but those supposed to be designed to maintain aggro from them couldn't.

But now with the movement penality reduced to 10%, and +6 STR and CON along with 20% more HP in stance more than makes up for it. Finally it is a non issue for me.

[Nephilia]

Maybe I'm in wrong here but if I remember well I heard a rumor about madstone rage even will switch off your defensive stance when it proc

[Angelus_dead]

Well, they give a negative to AC, so most Stalwarts didn't want them active when in stance.

That is false. Madstone does not give a negative to AC, and Stalwarts would like to have Madstone while in stance if they could.

In fact, Madstone Rage provides up to +4 AC.

[grodon9999]

Well, they give a negative to AC, so most Stalwarts didn't want them active when in stance.

But now that the SD movement penalty is only 10%, I can see keeping the stance on even when in DPS mode, just for the extra hps and STR.

Madstone DOES NOT affect AC.

[karl_k0ch]

Madstone DOES NOT affect AC.

According to the wiki, it provides +4 Natural AC.

Which is, of course, irrelevant as long as there is a level 12+ ranger in the party, or under the influence of a similar effect.

[Arsont]

Madstone does give the +4 natural (My barkskin pot timer hides when they proc).

I know that you can proc or clicky Madstones, then switch CE on and still have it, but I didn't know if/that turning on a defender stance would remove it. Both remove the rage spell, however (The stances are about "focusing", so you can't be raging. Something like that).

Would like confirmation in that using Madstone, then turning on SD stance removes the effect. That'd be annoying if it's so (Don't have a toon that I can test it on right now; Just respec'd the enhancements on my main).

[Enoach]

I believe the Defensive stance is like clarity of the mind setting focus. While Rage is like Losing your mind. In that they are not compatible as you can't be Crazed and Clear headed at the same time.



Tier III stance is +6 STR and +6 CON +20% of your MAX HP -10% movement

Rage Spell is +2 STR +2 CON -2 AC

Madstone Rage is +2 STR +4CON +4 Natural AC (if wearing Barkskin than this moot) +10% melee attach speed
Double Madstone Rage is +4 STR +8CON (Other bonuses do not stack)

So what is the difference between these?

Tier III vs Rage+Double Madstone

STR
================
Stance Grants +6 STR

Rage+Madstone Grants +4 STR
Rage+ Double Madstone Grants +6 STR

-Need full on Rage and Double Madstone to be on to be Equal with Tier III stance


CON
===========
Stance Grants +6 CON +20% MAX HP

Rage+Madstone Grants +6 CON
Rage+ Double Madstone Grants +8 CON

-Simple Rage+Madstone and your Equal with Stance for CON
-Rage+Double Madstone to get +2 More CON for a NET of +20 HP at Level 20.
-The +20% MAX HP means +20 HP per every 100 HP you have - Since having Less than 100 HP as your MAX is not likely on Melee the +20% already exceeds the additional +2 CON from a Double Madstone.

Drawback on Rage and Madstone and Double Madstone
=========================

• Timer
• Proc Timer (if you only have 1 set of boots you have approx 2.5 min to get a second proc in and once the timer is off only a single Madstone through PROC will be available)
• Madstone does not allow use of Spells/Clickies
• Dispell

Stances on the other hand are not subject to timing, can't be dispelled. There are only two ways to get out of stance. User takes themself out or Death.

Again if you have barkskin then the +4 Natual AC is moot. Infact with Rage it would still be a -2 AC.

So in the end what SD and DoS are trading is for is

No Timer for +6 STR & +6 CON, More HP, More AC, ability to use Spells/Clickies

with the oppertunity cost being:
-10% Movement Speed
-10% Attack Speed (Loss of Madstone)

[MrLarone]

didn't the 10% alacrity from madstone get the chop a while ago?

i actually asked about rage/DoS stance here last night, if you want more opinions.

but in brief:

getting raged then turning on stance will dispel the rage (i.e. it won't be there even if you break stance within it's timer)

getting madstoned (either source) then applying stance stacks but you won't get further procs of madstone until you break stance.

this is true as of log off last night.

---

nice break down enoach. the one thing i'll add is with 5 activations there's nothing stopping you getting the best of both if you time it well. ok, maybe not full on rage/doblemadstone, but at least single madstone.

[Thrudh]

That is false.

Madstone DOES NOT affect AC.

I stand corrected.... my apologies for putting out false info....

[Thrudh]

getting madstoned (either source) then applying stance stacks but you won't get further procs of madstone until you break stance.

Nice, that's good to know... Does turning on Combat Expertise dispell Madstone? I'm guessing no....

I may have to start hitting Reaver again...

[MrLarone]

Nice, that's good to know... Does turning on Combat Expertise dispell Madstone? I'm guessing no....

I may have to start hitting Reaver again...

not tested but from what i have done and what's reported here i think it's safe to assume Combat Expertise merely prevents Madstone procing rather than dispelling it, like rage, on activation of CE.

[grodon9999]

Nice, that's good to know... Does turning on Combat Expertise dispell Madstone? I'm guessing no....

I may have to start hitting Reaver again...

No, it doesn't but it won't start unless you have both CE and Defensive Stance off.

[eulogy098]

Rage effects should work in DOS or SD stances, if the tank wants them disabled then using CE or Defensive Fighting should do the trick, it's not necessary to have the base stances grant immunity to these effects.


Madstone should definitely work while in stance, it doesnt even have an AC penalty.



If i were a tower shield holding, ten ton armor wearing, bad-guy magnet getting my face beat in by a huge mean (insert boss here) then you can bet your rear end that i would be angry as high hell. Give me Rage.