HELP! Building a Human Intimitank

[Ghost6989]

I am really liking the feel of intimitanks, from what I have tried only up to level 6 with a dwarf but I want to be swinging a bastard sword and given human get the extra feat I figured why not. So yeah this is rough, please criticise it fully but remember, I know I either want this split or full fighter. I want to use full plate and bastard sword so evasion and khopesh are out of the question (people on the game have been saying these are the best ways to go.)

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Valeward 
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(18 Fighter \ 2 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 450
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 10
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    25
Dexterity            13                    13
Constitution         16                    16
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             13                    15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    10.5
Bluff                 1                     2
Concentration         3                     6
Diplomacy             1                     2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     2
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  1                     1
Intimidate            5                    40
Jump                  7                    24
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         1                     1
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     0
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Feat: (Human Bonus) Force of Personality
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) III
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Bastard Sword Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense III
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

skills got a bit messed up in char builder, maxing intimi/balance and taking jump to around 10ish or whatever is needed.

[SensaiRyu]

Trade one tough for force of personality to use cha mod for will saves.

Drop dex to 8 or use it as a dump. Drop dodge - what's +1 ac gonna really do for you?

Hmmm... you don't have improved crit either and improved shield stuff doesn't do much. Take them or swap out for cleave or something else... You're never, ever going to keep aggro using shield bash unless this is your str.

You left out skill focus: intim also...

Here's my current feat lineup for my intimitank build:

Level 1 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin 
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons 
 
Level 2 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword 
 
Level 3 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Selected) Toughness 
 
Level 4 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery 
 
Level 6 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons 
 
Level 8 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons 
 
Level 9 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality 
 
Level 10 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack 
 
Level 12 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave 
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate 
 
Level 14 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave 
 
Level 15 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded 
 
Level 16 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow 

Level 18 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting 
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device 
 
Level 20 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw

I use cleave a lot and I just respec'd for great cleave - love it but have only used it for 1 day. Some like it, some don't... Nice to see a bunch of death heads pop up after the cleave/great cleave combo... Quick draw is another first for me... it's supposed to speed up weapon swapping ... meh... we'll see.

I have no tower shield enhancements - I use Light and Darkness.

[Dragaer]

Trade one tough for force of personality to use cha mod for will saves.

That is good advice

Drop dex to 8 or use it as a dump. Drop dodge - what's +1 ac gonna really do for you?

This is bad advice. There is a limit on how much AC you are going to be able to get through gear...and the only way to raise it is through DEX...and increasing your MDB with armor.

My Stalwart's MDB is 10. Dex is worth it.

[Ghost6989]

thanks for the advice, might go half elf now as I think the dual intimi skills might help. also what would you guys start with stats wise?


On another not would it be wise to go true neutral to take advantage of stability? with a cha of 12-14 I should be able to get my UMD up to at least 20 for chaos and good weps.

[Ghost6989]

how does

16 str
12 dex
15con
12 int
8 wis
14 cha

sound?

[SensaiRyu]

There is a limit on how much AC you are going to be able to get through gear...and the only way to raise it is through DEX...and increasing your MDB with armor.

My Stalwart's MDB is 10. Dex is worth it.

My base dex is 10 with a +2 tome. I get about 50 ac. Starting out with +1 to +2 dex bonus isn't a deal breaker. I think my DT armor only allows a +1 dex mod. My equips aren't the best yet - no epics and I just started collecting amrath goodies. I am not an AC build. What armor are you using?

thanks for the advice, might go half elf now as I think the dual intimi skills might help. also what would you guys start with stats wise?

FWIW my latest LR starting stats are: 16/8/16/10/8/16. Lvl 20 stats are 26(with +3 enh)/10/18/12/10/18. Build goals: a running str of 40+, 700+ HP (in stance), and an intim for hard hound (75). I succeeded.

On another not would it be wise to go true neutral to take advantage of stability? with a cha of 12-14 I should be able to get my UMD up to at least 20 for chaos and good weps.

Problem with neutral is the good aligned weapons you'll need but not be able to use. I've considered going true neutral in the past and may now that i have my second GS DR beater. That's a good point about UMD - I have a 30% dwarf striding ring that I wear.

[Ghost6989]

I am guessing I will be using fullplate, if you meant a specific piece of named armour I dont know. I would like as high as ac as possible, I know gear is very hard to grind to get that but meh I like a challenge.

[SensaiRyu]

This is bad advice. There is a limit on how much AC you are going to be able to get through gear...and the only way to raise it is through DEX...and increasing your MDB with armor.

My Stalwart's MDB is 10. Dex is worth it.

Ok... I looked at Sully. You have much better equips than I do. Our str/con/cha abilities are about the same. You have way more dex than I do. I'm still on my first life and have just started collecting gear. Raising my AC is on my things to do list as I collect better gear.

[Dragaer]

Your initial post:

STR: 16
DEX: 13
CON: 16
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 13

I like human myself. It allows a little more flexibility.

Build points depends on the tomes and items that you plan on using but I'll give you my opinion. I have a two weapon fighting Stalwart so my views might or might not be the best. Regardless of style your stalwart needs DPS and threat to maintain aggro, AC and DR to mitigate incomming damage, and your stats/gear need to be right to maximize its role.

I would drop STR and CON by 1 which will give you 4 points (I would do more than that to get your dex up but we'll start it out like this ). Your 5 level ups into STR will put you at an even number, and your ToD ring will have +1 excep con on it which will round that off as well. So my input on your initial build is:

STR: 15
DEX: 14
CON: 15
INT: 11
WIS: 8
CHA: 14

Put one more into DEX (2 points), one more into INT (1 point), and one more into CHA (1 point).

With a +2 int tome you can get combat expertise (+5 AC). I would swap out another one of your toughness for that. With the +6 CON and 20% HP boost in stance you do not need more than one toughness.

I also think you should drop stunning blow. You won't get your STR high enough for that to be usefull in the higher levels. Take greater weap spec for more damage instead. You should take both weapon focuses and weap spec's IMO and def get rid of the shield bashes.

As stated earlier, you might want to take skill focus intim and bullheaded until you get some gear that will get your intim high enough.

Here is my opinion on the feats you may want based on the build you want. I personally would go TWF instead of THF but you stated you didn't want that. I also would recommend that you do not S&B your way through Ebberon. If going THF use Falchions or great swords most of the time and pull out your shield and B-sword only when required...but again this is my opinion only - play the way you want to play.

Feats: Level 20 Fighter
1. Force of Personality
1f. Bastard Sword
1h. Toughness
2f. Dodge
3. Bullheaded
4f. Weapon Focus Slash
6. THF
6f. Weapon Spec Slash
8f. Imp THF
9. Skill Focus UMD (I use this - and you can use heal/raise scrolls. With all that CHA why not?)
10f. Imp Crit Slash
12. Combat Expertise
12f. GTHF
14f. Greater Weapon Focus slash
15. Power Attack
16f. Shield Mastery
18. Skill Focus Intim
18f. Greater Weapon Spec Slash
20f. IMP Shield Mastery

If going with 2 pally, just drop force of personality. You'll loose the fighter capstone for a slight DPS loss, but gain +1 AC and boost your saves.

[Ghost6989]

thank you very much for the help. I am taking it all in, I think I am going TN and trying for at least 20 umd. which should be doable. with items and stuff

[Tirisha]

when the cove goes live get yourself a piece of calvary plate *fully upgraded with greater nimbleness in it* and a fully upgraded shield. That will put your AC pretty high and it is relatively easy to do.

IF YOU go Half-Elf I'd recommend starting stats like this:

Str 16
Dex 14
con 14
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 14

*now when you level to 3 read a +1 wis tome *or wait to 7 for a +2* so that you can swap your Dilettante feat for the monk one. This will allow to you buy the first 2 tiers of human improved recovery and the first 2 tiers of monk improved recovery providing a very solid base (144%) for healing amplification.

[Dragaer]

Ok... I looked at Sully. You have much better equips than I do. Our str/con/cha abilities are about the same. You have way more dex than I do. I'm still on my first life and have just started collecting gear. Raising my AC is on my things to do list as I collect better gear.

I know exactly what you mean. I initially built my guy off of a great build: QuikNDirty.

So I knew I wasn't going to be able to hit the stats/gear he did right away so I built around what I could get quickly. The problem comes in when you start getting gear - you need to adjust - and lesser - and recraft things etc.

I really think you should build for your end state. That way when you get the gear you can slot it in easily without a lot of hassle.

I have a few tier III GS items rotting in my bank (GS deconstruct please!) because I made stopgap items instead of looking at the end product. The one thing I did after I learned this lesson was slot +2 dex on my ToD ring. I was already at my MDB at the time (and wasn't going to TR for a bit so it didn't help me at all). But I knew I was going to TR him, and the fighter PL feat increases the MDB by one. I am very happy I did that instead of slotting +2 con/str/or heal amp on it.

[SensaiRyu]

Being a first life no-equips-noob that wanted an intimitank I needed all the help I could get to reach a no fail intim for hard/elite bosses (79). I made it to about 83 with human vers II or III. I didn't like my dmg so I LR'd out a bit of cha/dex/int and increased str. I'm much happier now. Skill starved, but still happy.

Whatever your base intim mod is, you'll add (I'm doing these off the top of my head...) this to it:

+___ cha mod
+23 skill
+6 stance
+4 intim IV
+2 FoP
+3 skill focus feat
----
38 base intim without cha mod

+6 GS cha item (I have goggles for this)
+2 house p fav
+1 trinket (or +2 trinket) luck - Delera's or the giant head
+1 ship buffs
+4 gh (or +2 heroism pots. I carry the pots all the time)
+3 house k shield item (medium guild slot)
+15 intim item
----
70 intim equipped and buffed without cha mod

As a HElf you get 2 intim timers so if one fails you can use the HElf one - the HElf one is on a 60 second timer. I only use the HElf one for ziggy runs to nab the puppies when people bring them buy.

[SensaiRyu]

Since some of this thread is beginning to discuss THF vs TWF...

I went THF to reduce the amount of points I would need to spend in dex. I use a GS greatsword with +2 exc con or a GS bastard sword (both holy/transmuting dr beaters). You do get glancing blows from the bastard sword with THF. I like bastard swords and greatswords over khops or great axes.

[Dragaer]

Edit: I need more coffee. I read your B-sword glancing blow statement as a question and I answered it :P

[Feithlin]

Some comments about your build and previous posts:
* Dex score: the good Dex score is the one needed to get the MDB you're aiming at. You will most probably not get a red dragon scale plate during your first life, so let's take 2 usual cases for a non evasion character: Epic Cavalry plate (made during the CC event that will start soon, create it right now so it will be ready when you'll reach level 20) or DT full plate (Reaver's Refuge pack). Your MDB will be respectively, on a human (it would be different with a dwarf) without fighter PL:
- Epic cavalry plate: 3 base (mithral plate) + 1 SD III + 3 Fighter enh. = 7. By sloting Greater nimbleness in the blue slot, you could add 2 more, for a total of 9.
- DT armor: 1 base + 2 SD II & III + 3 Fighter enh. = 6.
A good aim, imo, is a Dex mod. of +8. That's enough to make greater nimbleness give the same bonus as increasing the enhancement to 7, while maintaining the possibility to increase it further.
To get this (Dex 26), you can benefit from a +2 dex tome, a +7 item (epic Ring of the bukaneer, crafted during the CC event too), +1 from human enh., +2 from ship buff, i.e. a basis of 14, 15 if you don't want to spend AP to increase Dex (my choice).
This is the same requirement than for getting TWF line (with the +2 tome), which makes it an attractive dps mode (my choice). However, if you prefer BS to khopeshes (a viable choice), use THF as your dps mode.

* Tank/DPS modes: tanking is situational, be it on a boss and against some mobs, but most of the time you won't have to tank, and shouldn't. You expressed the choice of using BS. To make it viable, though, you will need all 3 THF feats (to improve the glancing blows), otherwise using a khopesh will simply be better. As a human, you will also want the 3 Sentinel dragonmarks, to make the best of your future epic Chimera's Fang.
For DPS, you will want, as a BS stalwart: THF, iTHF, gTHF, WF, WS, gWS, IC, and PA if possible. The 3 dragonmarks would give a big boost to the epic Chimera's Fang.

* Some feats: some feats are useless imo. Force of personnality is one of them imo. By splashing 2 Pal levels, you get divine grace (and an additional bonus to save from aura), which should be enough for your saves. Will save isn't very important in later levels, you'd better focus on Fortitude and Reflexes. Again, by splashing 2 pal levels, you will most probably be fine.

* Intimidation: Again, try to aim for what is needed. If you can get high enough without a feat, why take it? I don't know the intimidate DC of the new boss (perhaps you should wait a bit to know before creating your character), but the main DCs are: 75 Hard HoX (80 Elite), 71 Elite VoD, 70 Elite Horoth, 79 Epic Lailat. If you aim for 70, you will be fine. For the highest DCs, you can count on epic items you will grind later (+20 intimidate from epic Brawn' spirit, +5 stacking from epic Gloves of the Claw). There are many bonuses to take into account before looking at Cha or feats:
23 ranks + 6 SD III + 4 Fighter enh. + 15 item + 4 GH + 2 luck + 6 eCha skills (GS item) + 2 Coin Lord favor = 62.
Even a basic Cha will end as 8 + 2 tome + 6 item + 2 ship = 18 (+4 mod.), leaving you with a base of 66.
Where to find the last points? In a slightly higher Cha, especially since it will benefit you higher saves. The Sentinel dragonmarks would give you up to +6 (+2 from least dragonmark, +4 from related enh.), which is enough. So put in Cha the points left, nothing is really required, it will just make things easier.

* AC: Reaching around 80 AC isn't that hard if you build your tank right. The most difficult part is to go above this. Every point is hard to get when you're that high, so you will want all the possible bonuses from feats: Combat Expertise (13 Int required, 11 with a +2 tome), Dodge (13 Dex required). Apart from that, all will come from your gear.

* Damage mitigation: AC is good for physical mitigation, but it isn't the end of all. You also need good saves against spells. With your pal splash, you should be fine. You also want to reduce physical damage further. Shield mastery, and imp. SM if you can, are really great: 20% (25%) less physical damage, before DR, is really great.

* Alignment: On a non paladin, I would go neutral, definitely. First, it prevents you from unholy damage; second, it allows you to use sup. stability; third, even for leveling, being good isn't needed anymore with cannith crafting. For leveling, use the Bleeding or Bane suffixes instead of Pure good. It gives better damage. Later on, you will be able to craft sup. stability, giving you +6 deflection and +6 resistance. However, as a paladin, there's no other option than going LG.

* Gear: You will have time to check it further while leveling. However, you should already focus on the CC event while it's here: my advices would be to create an epic Cavalry plate, an epic Ring of the bukanneer, a pirate's hat with + 15 intimidate and either +5 natural armor (the usual option) or SFL (good to use with a DT armor), and an epic Swashbuckler if you can (mainly for sup. parrying = +4 to saves, not absolutely needed though).
Try to increase your crafting skills as much as possible (on this character or on another), as it will make it a lot easier to equip your tank.
I would advice to have a higher level toon to help gearing your tank. Doing a tank as a 1st character isn't a very good idea, and could lead to nasty frustration.

[CanuckWisdom]

In response to the first reply: If your a fighter, you probably have room for the dodge feat, and getting ac from anywhere is beneficial when your trying to squeeze out the high numbers.

Don't drop dex completely, it depends on your armor and enhancements but you'll likely need 20+.

And improved shield bash doesnt add to your defense, but as of I think update 10, it adds to your dps, which with a shield equipped you may need. Again, this is a 'your a fighter so you have feats to spare' feat.

[Tirisha]

Also if you stay human consider taking the sentinel dragon marks and aiming for the Epic Chimera fang (and probably crown too) it is after all the alpha of all bastard swords.