Fighter/Monk

[JasonJi72]

Hey guys,

I just TR'ed into this build. I figured I'd post it so you guys could shred... I mean comment on it. I cannot access the ddo store right now, so I can't use a +2 Supreme Tome. I worked it out with a +1 dex and +1 wis tome.

The goal is to make a versatile fighter with high healing amp. I incorporated some ranged combat, since Arty has made that something good to have. That and I TR'ed him from an Arcane Archer lol.

I do not have half elf. They are the only race I don't have. .... the nightmares.... please make them stop...

I didnt bother with the skill points on this one, since it was a remake. My skills are Hide/Move Silent (I really like using stealth when appropriate), Intimidate, and Concentration.

One of the things I am trying to do is combine Air stance with Haste 4 during manyshot, while still taking a strong melee role.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(13 Fighter \ 7 Monk) 
Hit Points: 333
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 12
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    22
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom               12                    13
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 4
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     3
Bluff                -1                     1
Concentration         2                     5
Diplomacy            -1                     1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  1                     1
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate           -1                     1
Jump                  2                     6
Listen                1                     1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     2
Search                2                     2
Spot                  1                     1
Swim                  2                     6
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Human Bonus) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 4 (Fighter)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Bow Strength


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Manyshot


Level 8 (Fighter)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 16 (Monk)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Kensei Greatsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) II
Enhancement: Fighter Greatsword Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

[JollySwagMan]

These types of Kensai Monks can be very fun...lots of feats to play around with, excellent BAB progression, and having tactical feats, Intimidate and stealth skills on one character provide an excellent basis for 'melee control' (aka completing the quest with minimal resource use )

Drop the 13th Fighter level, and pick up 1 Rogue - voila, UMD! Also, Faster Sneaking!

Actually have enough Int at start to make starting with Rogue pretty worthwhile (4 ranks plus gear/buffs can be surprisingly effective trapswise) - but if you have already TR'ed the character, hold it off until level 7 at least, that way you can sink all the skillpoints from that level into UMD (or all but one, sparing one for a rank in open locks, which is sufficient to unlock shroud puzzle doors and most other locks in the game with gear/buffs)

A 'benefit' to not having trapskills is that it's one less thing to mess up Monk combos

Also, make sure and pick up Stunning Fist! It works based upon half *character* level these days rather than half *Monk* level, and your Stunning Blow/Kensai enhancements boost it. Even with 12 base Wisdom, the bonuses from Stunning Blow enhancements and Kensai will push it above what a pure Monk with 18 Wis can achieve.

I don't actually know about whether Air Stance affects Zen-Archery bow use, but sounds neat if it does

Also I notice that you have Improved Trip way down the list at 18th level - this feat really stands out in the early levels (as the +4 bonus renders Vertigo weapons somewhat unnecessary until later) and throughout levelling, I'd recommend this over Quickdraw (which is quite nifty, especially on a human, but the DPS bonus isn't really noticeable until you get to raiding IMO)

A single level of Ranger or another one of Monk could go in place of the Rogue/13th Fighter level - 1 Ranger would grant Bow Strength, favoured enemy, sprint boost and some wands if you don't like UMD, an 8th Monk level would provide +1d2 damage.

[ImFour20]

why 13/7 instead of a 12/7/1 build? an extra feat?

[JasonJi72]

Oh yeah, the reason I ended with fighter is so I could get a fighter past life if I wanted it. Don't you have to end on a class and have more levels of that class than any other to qualify for a past life?

Also, on an earlier version, I needed the odd fighter level to take a specialization feat, but here I went another route. I should have re-evaluated that. Thanks for reminding me.

Yes, I did start the character. I would like to put in UMD. I always have UMD and/or spells/wand/scroll use. My intention was to not put off Kensai II any longer than I had to, and to get manyshot as soon as possible where it can be useful early on. Then of course I wanted to get my healing amp capped and get air stance II before I actually finished the character. The reason I took Imp Trip at the end was because I had trouble fitting bothe required feats in earlier, and I needed something useful that I didn't take earlier for the level 6 Monk bonus feat. I was hoping I could get by with Trip and Stunning blow at level 15.

Nice take on stunning fist. I thought it was based on monk levels. Does Stunning Blow work with a greatsword btw? Another reason I didn't select stunning fist was because I planned on doing my melee damage with martial weapons.

Thank you for your comments.

[JollySwagMan]

To qualify for a particular past life, you just need the majority of levels (in this case 12 Fighter) to be of that class - in the case of a tie, I believe it goes alphabetically by the original classes first, then by other classes in order that they were added to the game (not sure on this).

Skills wise, I am guessing that with it being a TR character you can afford a +2 Int tome at 7; so whenever you take a Rogue level it would have 8 (Rogue) + 3 (Int) + 1 (Human) skillpoints for that level. Assuming no prior ranks into UMD, you'd want to take the Rogue level at 9 or later in order to put 12 skillpoints into UMD.

Depending on preferences you might feel comfortable dumping Hide somewhat as Camoflage scrolls can be used - eg. sneaking up on a beholder, it wouldn't be dispelled until they actually saw you.

Stunning Blow can be used with a Greatsword, but using a THF slashing weapon rules out +Stunning weapons. Depending on how much Strength boosting gear/buffs you use, +Stunning weapons might not be necessary to use Stunning Blow effectively. However it does seem a curious to take 7 Monk levels and spend most of your time uncentred .

Another avenue might be the Whirling Steel Strike feat for Longswords, or Ninja Spy 1 for Shortswords. (These are more favoured by the Paladin healing amp type-builds as there's some synergy between higher crit range weapons and Paladin clickie attacks) However I would recommend focusing on Unarmed Strikes if going for damage on a Kensai Monk. Due to the handwraps' attack speed, the various damage boosts from Kensai II, Weapon Specialisation feats, Damage boost clickies and equal Str applied to each fist add up quite nicely.

[JasonJi72]

Sorry for the double post.

Quickdraw:

Originally, I did not have this feat selected. After some play testing in korthos, I realized that Quickdraw really fit into the playstyle of the character I was creating. I found myself switching often between handwraps, 2hw, sword and board, and longbow. The fact that there is virtually no delay when using action boosts with Quickdraw is also extremely sweet!

My odd level:

If I don't have to take fighter at 20 to get a fighter past life, I will take something else. The problem lies with skill points. Originally, I planned on buying a Supreme Tome, but I can't, so now I have less skills than I planned on. Move Silent and Intimidate have to be maxed with Hide pretty close to max. When you are sneaking, you really don't want it to fail. Concentration should be high so I can use the light monk healing amp and uber undead damage when I want to. Balance cannot be neglected, but does not need to be uber, and you have to put some points into jump. Class wise I could get UMD with a rogue or bard splash. I could take bard and max out UMD and perform for 3 fascinates in a perfect world, but I would not have stealth. My feat selection is also pretty tight, and gets me what I want combat wise as early as possible without seriously gimping me (I hope ). Taking a ranger level would actually free up a feat or two (Bow Strength and possibly WF Ranged). This would allow some early wand usage and either W. Specialization Ranged or 2hf and gthf.

Taking a Ranger level would delay a lot of very useful feats, while forcing me to take Monk as my final level.

I need some clarification on whether or not I need to end with fighter to qualify for a fighter past life.

The thing is, I really like the synargy of my feat selection, and yes I wish I could take Imp Trip earlier, and I did in my earlier versions. Taking Manyshot by level 8 and Imp Crit slashing and ranged at level 9 caused me to make a lot of sacrifices.

Stunning Blow vs Stunning Fist:

Every time I make a character that takes advantage of a glitch, they fix the glitch and nerf my character. Stunning fist will probably never get fixed unless I make a Kensai with Stunning Fist. *shrugs*

[JasonJi72]

Interesting Points Jolly.

You posted while I was typing my last post. I am at level 2 right now, so I have some time to make changes. I also have most of the handwraps that I want. That is something to consider. Thanks for the insight.

[JollySwagMan]

Think there may be some overlap between our posts here, heh.

Just for clarity's sake though: you don't have to take your 20th level in the specific class, just have a majority of levels.

Regarding Stunning Fist being such a great feat for Fighters (and Clerics)...This change came at the same time as Healing Ki was changed to be based on Monk level rather than character level (as well as Radiant Servant abilities and several other prestige enhancements). So it does seem odd...But it's WAI:

The impact of the combat changes on monks were well known when we made them.


Stunning Fist's DC no longer being tied solely to monk levels is a halo effect of fixing numerous issues tied to respeccing the feat, but it likely should have been looking at half character level all along. (The base feat in the PHB isn't monk-specific, though it is much better on a monk.)

[JasonJi72]

Ok, thanks for the stunning fist clarification.

The reason I chose Greatsword and the slashing feats, is for the following reasons:

1. I have some decent slashing weapons, and I can make a greensteele one.
2. The best weapon in the game is a greatsword; just in case I ever get into playing epics lol.
3. Carnifex is uber for leveling.
4. I pushed my monk levels to the end to get power surge asap.

Handwraps are tempting though, but I didn't think I had enough monk levels and action points to really make them shine. I do have weakening/enfeebling, smiting, banishing, paralyzing, disruption, holy burst pure good, fire and cold burst wraps, stunning, and vamp/stonedust (I think it is bound to my monk) handwraps.

It is something to consider.

I will probably either take a ranger level or go monk 8. Rogue would be great, but then there would be the UMD/Trap excpectation,and I really don't have the skill points. If I switch to handwraps, I will definitely take Monk 8.

[JasonJi72]

I have made a decision to stay with Slashing weapons in lieu of handwraps as my main melee weapon. The reason is that handwraps forces me to concentrate on handwraps. By going with slashing, I will be good with S&B, 2hf, and handwraps.

Taking one level of ranger will allow me to take Imp 2handed fighting. I really wanted to fit that in anyway. Early wand use, and sprint boost are nice too.

I actually took stunning fist at level 3 based on Jolly's suggestion, but I had Fred change it to Stunning Blow. The reason for this was so that I could use it regardless of what armor or weapon I was using, while not having to have 15 ki to do so as well. Fighter's can also get AP boosts for stunning blow. They cannot do so for stunning fist.

Here is my revised leveling progression:

1. Mnk1: PL: Bard, PBShot, Rapid Shot, Toughness
2. Ftr1: Quick Draw
3. Ftr2: WF: Slashing, Stunning Blow
4. Rgr1: Bow Strength
5. Ftr3
6. Ftr4: WSp: Slashing, Power Attack
7. Ftr5
8. Ftr6: Manyshot
9. Mnk2: Imp Crit: Slashing, Zen Archery, (Evasion)
10. Ftr7
11. Ftr8: Imp Crit: Ranged
12. Ftr9: Shield Mastery
13. Ftr10: THF
14. Ftr11
15. Ftr12: GrWSp: Slashing, ITHF
16. Mk3: Fists of Light
17. Mk4:
18. Mk5: Combat Expertise
19. Mk6: Imp Trip
20. Mk7


Yeah, I know Imp Trip is still at the end, but I needed a usable monk bonus feat for Mnk6, and it was harder to fit the 2 required feats in earlier.

[Soleran]

You would be better off going with rogue levels over monk if you aren't going to use handwraps. One of the benefits of going 12 fighter 8 monk is that fighter stunning blow enhancements DO work with stunning fist. You aren't using twf which is more a monks cup of tea and instead using thf instead.

The benefit to using handwraps is that you stay centered and you get 10% more attacks with unarmed and you don't sacrifice significant dps to be able to stun with a good set of wraps.

With what you are building there you would be better off with a 12 fighter/6 ranger/2 rogue split then 12 fighter 8 monk since it looks like you won't benefit at all from monk using swords, shields, armor etc etc

You are also starting with a really high INT and relatively low STR.

You picked up Zen Archery which would use wisdom as your to hit instead of dex when your wisdom score is lower. With your stat distribution you should just avoid zen archery.

[Adrian99]

Others have said it, but I think it bears repeating that it makes no sense to take 7 monk levels if you're not going to fight primarily unarmed. 2 monk levels would make sense and allow you to take Kensei 3. More than 2 monk levels for a greatsword spec is gimping your character for no gain.

[JasonJi72]

Thanks guys.

I think you are right. 18 ftr and 2 monk would probably be better for what I am trying to do.

My stat distribution is based primarily on not being able to access the ddo store for a supreme tome. I cannot access the ddo store, and yes I do have a ticket in.

I just hope I don't mess it up too bad. Thanks again for the advice.

[JasonJi72]

How about this:

1. Mnk1: PL: Bard, PBShot, Rapid Shot, Toughness
2. Ftr1: Quick Draw
3. Ftr2: WF: Slashing, Stunning Blow
4. Ftr3
5. Ftr4: WSp: Slashing
6. Ftr5: Combat Expertise
7. Ftr6: Manyshot
8. Mnk2: Imp Trip
9. Ftr7: Imp Crit: Slashing
10. Ftr8: Imp Crit: Ranged
11. Ftr9
12. Ftr10: Power Attack, Shield Mastery
13. Ftr11
14. Ftr12: GWSp: Slashing
15. Ftr13:
16. Ftr14: WF: Ranged
17. Ftr15
18. Ftr16: Bow Strength, GWF: Slashing
19. Ftr17
20. Ftr18: SWF: Slashing, SWSp: Slashing

The character is already at level 3, so I'm locked in at that point.

[JasonJi72]

Revised... again...

1. Mnk1: PL: Bard, PBShot, Rapid Shot, Toughness
2. Ftr1: Quick Draw
3. Ftr2: WF: Slashing, Stunning Blow
4. Ftr3
5. Ftr4: WSp: Slashing
6. Mnk2: Combat Expertise, Imp. Trip
7. Ftr5
8. Ftr6: Manyshot
9. Ftr7: Imp. Crit: Slashing
10. Ftr8: Imp. Crit: Ranged
11. Ftr9
12. Ftr10: Power Attack, 2HF
13. Ftr11
14. Ftr12: GWSp: Slashing
15. Ftr13: Cleave
16. Ftr14: I2HF
17. Ftr15
18. Ftr16: Great Cleave, GWF: Slashing
19. Ftr17
20. Ftr18: SWF: Slashing