A suggestion for Turbine concerning Mechanic rogues.

[DarkAlchemist]

#1 Mechanic 3 PrE

#2 Redesign the quests that has traps and locked items that only a Mechanic could hope to get through *BUT* keep them for some really tasty extra optional XP.

#3 Redesign the instances to use dynamic random locations where the trap boxes/traps could be instead of the static locations the game uses now.

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#1 We really are overdue this PrE since we get Mechanic II at 12 then nothing for the rest of our game life.

#2 Doing this will give incentive to remain pure, and for groups to love/want us again. For those people who say they do not want higher level traps back in the game because it would impede their completion of the quests when they couldn't find a Mech this is a perfect compromise since all of the juicy XP is just an optional it would not impede anyone from completing said quest.

#3 In DnD pnp only the Dungeon Master knows where everything is and no player should know precisely where any trap is until spotted. I have had players tell me to such a degree of accuracy where each trap box is that my jaw dropped many times and by randomizing the traps it brings so much to the table and makes spot worth taking again. If you don't want dynamic traps then run on casual.


Please, Turbine, make us have a reason to be again and make us loved once more.

[Bodic]

1 & 3 check yes please.

#2
will say 16 Int base for this. So +2 ship,+4 tome,+2 cap, +7item, +3 exceptional, +1 helf +1 wiz dilly so 30 Int modifer being 10.

23 skills
20 skill item
10 skill mod(stat)
6 GS skill item
6 MechIII
4 DD/Search AP
7 Tools
5 Feats( Skill Mastery/RAPL)
5 Boost
4 GH
3 Bracers
2 Head
3 SF: DD SF:search
1 find trap spell
3 bard song

DC 102+20 MechIII
DC 83+20 AssassinIII (underlined is what an assassin would not have or take all of)

You can look at it how ever you want the long and short is a Mechanic only nets currently +6 over a Assassin as I doubt Mechs are taking all SM feats and all DD/search AP they might take more Int on average. I liked 12 now going to go 14 on my assassin. I also seriously doubt tehy would invest all the SF: X feats, but as it stand to full on gimpout a build a door or trap with a DC of say 110 should have Godhood behind it. We do have DC 90 locks.

[Falco_Easts]

1> Yes
2> Partially
3> Yes

Addon for Part 2, make the DC's doable by non mechanics but with not above 50% chance for a reasonably geared rogue.

Mechanics should get faster disable times, auto search, more trap parts and betters crafted traps. Possibly the chance of "delaying" the trap so the party can go past but it then is enabled after your passing to guard your back.

[DarkAlchemist]

My thought is a 75-ish DC for #2 and 80-ish at lvl 20. This will make it so the players can continue the quest or they can bring along a Mech III (I suspect the III will be more than +6) to get all of that tasy side/optional XP.

[erei]

About 2/ :
We will have artificer's trap skill useless (they can't be mech except if they splash).
PuG will only want mech in the team, because a lot of vets/TR do PuG and all they want is XP.
A new player rogue with few gear will be useless.

Sorry, but I want to be able to do trap and dmg on my team, well, I want to be a ROGUE.
I left the game like 2 years ago because I wanted to play rogue, but the traps DC where so high I couldn't. And I wasn't gimped on trap, I was just an assassin, and a new player with no gear free and cash.

I understand the frustration, and I agree the mech need some love, but not when the acrobat and assassin will suffer from it. Traps is part of the rogue gameplay, and I made an assassin for both SA/assassin skill and traps.

[Veresh]

to1:
Mechanic 3 would be nice.
With something like faster disableing/searching/etc.
Most partys dont give me time to disable anyways. While i didnt even started someone either just runs through or actually buffs resi and runs through because they cant wait 15 sec. XD

to 2:
I remember that issue from way back then when the lv cap was 12.
My rouge couldnt find any of the traps no more even so i had decent spot and search.
At some point someone asked me "hey whats your INT?". I told him i had INT 18 and started with 14. Then i was insulted how i could dare to not take DEX20 and INT 18 as drow from start and dump all my other stats since my only purpose would be to walk behind them and only moove a finger to disapble traps.
It ended with partys demanding a level of search/disable wich only a very determined trap monkeys could reach at all.
And that was pre Mechanics getting the repeater feat.
Also i agree, that you shouldnt absolutely need a mechanic to disable. I for myself took mechanic cos i like repeaters and i want to absolutely take out any chance to blow that thing up.

Under no circumstances i would want that "be the monkey!" attitude back. I love my Rogue too much for that.

to 3:
Random Traps would be great but as far as i remember thats something which is asked since the first few month of DDO. DO EEET!
And even if its just 3 random locations...
Or/and make the element ofthe trap random. That way people wouldnt just buff ele immunity and run through.

[licho]

1. Yes, finishing PrE is always good thing.
3. Would by nice, even if it will be only several location per box but quite random (like some box have 3 possible location to spawn, and some of them are in nasty place hehe)
2. Total fail.

Im so fed up with supporting rogues=traps. Can we end with it. Traps are not really exiting part of game. One person work, rest stands and watch - where is fun here? I would rather see some extra perks for rogues, making trapmaking more viable, giving Mechanic bonus dice against constructs... that stuff of things. But keep traps on easy level, so we dont have to wait for rogue/mechanic to do quest, but instead can pick any1 with rogue levels. If the mechanic is unwanted that means that YOUR mechanic is a gimp, or mechanic as a whole need boost in other department than traps.

Some ideas from other topic:
Fast Search, for Elves, Drows, and Rogues at high level.
Each time toon pass hiden door and makes spot chech, can instatnly do search check without animation to discover it. (for all 3)
Each time toon passes trap box and make spot chech can instantly do search check and if passed discover it. (only for rogues).
That are nice perk, which adds flavor to the game.

[altrocks]

98% of the game is killing mobs. The other 2% are puzzles, traps and extra things like that.

All but a few quests, even on epic, can be done without any trap skills whatsoever. Even those with traps can be bypassed or run through by monks/rangers/anyone with evasion and a decent save. People already do this.

Making traps harder to disable/detect will just make people not bother looking for artificers or rogues because they'll just get a bard/healer to rez anyone who dies in the traps. As it is, people already do this, even on epic. And Mechanics have not-so-awesome DPS. Assassin rogues can instakill 1-3 mobs at a time and then do major DPS with SA. Add in epic items like the Midnight Greetings, and their DPS gets even sicker.

The sad fact is that this game is combat-based and it will never be anything else. Traps, puzzles, crafting, etc, are all there as add-ons and will never be the primary focus. Most classes with multiple PrE lines have at least one that is just horrible. For rogues it's mechanic. I'd like to see it become useful, but any way you cut it, Mechanic Rogues are just going to be poor substitutes for Artificers now that they're out.

[DarkAlchemist]

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[DarkAlchemist]

Well, I was hoping more would make suggestions and maybe Turbine will listen to at least one suggestion and make it so.

Really, I just want someone who stayed the course for 20 levels as a Mechanic rogue to be more than they currently are. Make them wanted and make them offer more than a 1 or 2 splash rogue can/does.

[MadDruid]

A few months ago I would of suggested mech 3 to give the ability to create mechanical summoned creatures but now that would be too much overlap with arti's.

Prehaps Mech 3 could allow rogues to launch mines by crossbow being able to set up a minefield at range would be very nice for ambushes.

[DarkAlchemist]

A few months ago I would of suggested mech 3 to give the ability to create mechanical summoned creatures but now that would be too much overlap with arti's.

Prehaps Mech 3 could allow rogues to launch mines by crossbow being able to set up a minefield at range would be very nice for ambushes.

Well, doesn't Arti already overlap every other class? I see no sense we couldn't as well but the mechanical dogs we make spew grease and everyone hates grease. So, I don't want anything that spews grease, hehehe.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

My suggestions:

Mechanic 1 Changes: Buff Repair Construct to be instant-cast, at-range, and 15d3+30 (45-75) instead of 15 ticks of 2d3 (30-90 over 30 seconds).
Add a static passive +2d6 damage to (Living) Constructs.

Mechanic 2 Changes: Remove Smite Construct, increase the passive damage to +4d6 and add a +2 tohit against (Living) Constructs.
Give a +2 bonus to Sunder attempts, perhaps allow Sunder at range.

Mechanic 3: Additional +2 to skills, +2 to UMD, even higher Trap DC/Damage, increase elemental resistances to 4, add Smiting to Vorpals.

[DarkAlchemist]

My suggestions:

Mechanic 1 Changes: Buff Repair Construct to be instant-cast, at-range, and 15d3+30 (45-75) instead of 15 ticks of 2d3 (30-90 over 30 seconds).
Add a static passive +2d6 damage to (Living) Constructs.

Mechanic 2 Changes: Remove Smite Construct, increase the passive damage to +4d6 and add a +2 tohit against (Living) Constructs.
Give a +2 bonus to Sunder attempts, perhaps allow Sunder at range.

Mechanic 3: Additional +2 to skills, +2 to UMD, even higher Trap DC/Damage, increase elemental resistances to 4, add Smiting to Vorpals.

Mech 3 needs to add to repeater as well. The rest I really like.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Mech 3 needs to add to repeater as well. The rest I really like.

-25% ranged threat?

[DarkAlchemist]

-25% ranged threat?

You know I am always having that thrown in my face by the assassins that we have nothing to reduce our threat unlike them (it only works on melee not ranged) so that is a really cool idea though 25% is OP I think. Maybe 10 or 15 percent would be more appropriate.

[DarkAlchemist]

I wish more would make some viable suggestions on this thread as Turbine might actually listen to us.

Been having conversations in the game about the suggestions on this thread and everyone I talked to favored them if only Turbine will listen to us.

[Kavassa]

I think they should Give greater Evasion to Mechanic 3 line allowing mechanics 3s to make a second roll if they fail the first. Also they should add Mechanical Inventions and Engineering to the game.

Mechanical Inventions are things that a mechanic can use to bypass obstacles thus creating shortcuts threw quests allowing it to be completed a lot faster or to avoid certain areas of high danger like a room full of really tough mobs. Like teleporters which would allow members of the party to instantly travel between locations in the quests (say place one at the start and take the other with u so it can be placed later on when someone new joins the quest or to quickly escape to the start). Another Example would be like a rope bridge allowing the party to cross over to the other side of a chasm or ravine instead of having to take the long way around.

Engineering should basically be what it is, the crafting of items. allowing mechanics to craft maybe craftable base items instead of having to disjunction another even those of different material types like silver, cold iron, and Adamantine, and Mithral. also other material types that are not usually available like crystal (this also includes Clothing and Jewelry adding inherent bonuses to items that do not add to the enchantment level of the item).

[DarkAlchemist]

I think they should Give greater Evasion to Mechanic 3 line allowing mechanics 3s to make a second roll if they fail the first. Also they should add Mechanical Inventions and Engineering to the game.

Mechanical Inventions are things that a mechanic can use to bypass obstacles thus creating shortcuts threw quests allowing it to be completed a lot faster or to avoid certain areas of high danger like a room full of really tough mobs. Like teleporters which would allow members of the party to instantly travel between locations in the quests (say place one at the start and take the other with u so it can be placed later on when someone new joins the quest or to quickly escape to the start). Another Example would be like a rope bridge allowing the party to cross over to the other side of a chasm or ravine instead of having to take the long way around.

Engineering should basically be what it is, the crafting of items. allowing mechanics to craft maybe craftable base items instead of having to disjunction another even those of different material types like silver, cold iron, and Adamantine, and Mithral. also other material types that are not usually available like crystal (this also includes Clothing and Jewelry adding inherent bonuses to items that do not add to the enchantment level of the item).

I like your ideas and for me it would fit perfectly with the Gnome race.

[Cyr]

Completing the PrE /signed.

The rest of the nonsense about catering to rogues who think that traps are the defining part of their class /not signed.

My suggestions for tier 3 mechanic so that players who build for more then just flavor would think about taking it...

Rogue Mechanic 3
Reqs: Rogue Mech 2, Rogue level 18, X AP spent
Cost: 2 AP
Benefits: Your mastery of the mechanical has reached it's peak. Any crossbow you use does one dice more of base damage (if it does 2d8 normally it now does 3d8 for example). Extra base damage dice do not add onto the base damage for stacking purposes with other powers and abilities. You gain 10% fortification bypass. Whenever you disable a trap you instead make it so that it no longer effects your allies, but will instead only effect hostile creatures. You may toggle this ability on or off, but once a trap has been disabled that trap can not be changed.