Arguments For Light or Dark

[StarfishDDO]

Hello all , I'm interested in making a monk. Probably balance out the stats nicely IE balanced Str, Dex, Wis and Con but!

I was wondering which is the best path to take Light Monk or Dark Monk. Can somebody point out the advantages and disadvantages of each? Maybe just list them in Bullet point to make it easier to understand or read?

Thank you

[Dendrix]

Light monks have loads of utility such as healing and buffing the group through their finishers (healing, spell point saving, to hits, stun immunity).
Light monks can be great against aberations, undead and non-lawful extraplanar things through the shintao prestige class.

Dark monks do more DPS.
Dark monks can run on water and do more dps through their ninja prestige class

[Provenance]

Dark monks have a 3d6 sneak attack (stacks with rogue or half-elf), which boosts dps a lot. They also can use touch of death, which doesn't require any combo and deals 500 negative additional dmg if the mob doesn't save (10+monk lv+wis mod), otherwise it's still 250 each hand. Ninja fade (gives 25% incorporeality) is simply yummy! Walking on the surfare of the water is fun, but it's bugged, works on harbor, litany of the dead (beholder part), and some other quests, but not on every quest. It doesn't work on the vale lake for example, or acid wit, and some others, so I don't exactly count as an advantage, just fun ability. 8D

Light monks on the other hand have a better self-healing (fists of light) that works not only on you, but the party is also healed by it, several stuns (stunning fist, kukan do, jade...), a dissmissal move which is decent, higher AC, can make casters spend less sp (25% less for 1 min), buffs to-hit, skills checks, and make the party immune from stuns, the reason why people look for light monks when running ToDs. And as Dendrix said, Smite tainted is also decent when fighting aberrations, non-lawful outsiders, and undead.

My guildies believe that for people with no experience with monks, the light path is the way to go, probally cuz you mostly don't need DR breakers (you bypass even silver at lv 18). Keep in mind that finding a pit fiend DR breaker may be a pain. I personally believe that the dark path is better for a new player 'cause you have less hotkeys to worry about, compared to a light monk, just personal opinion thou.

PS: Keep in mind that I didn't mention every ability of light/dark paths, just the basic for you to have an idea of what they are capable of.

[eulogy098]

In playing just about every melee cast to a degree where their gear was "above average quality" I found that my monks DPS was lackluster when compared to my other toons. That being the case I find that Dark just doesn't offer much value to a team. If the team just wanted a pure dps for a slot, the would be better off investing in someone else.

So then I respeced to light. He still contributes to damage output but his utility is his real boon.


IMO a dark monk in a group or raid is really only able to offer dps, and it doesn't offer all that much (when compared to other options*) where as a Light monk can supply some dps but offer a lot more utility.

I am now very happy with my halfelf light monk, his stunning fist is more reliable, hes group buffs are always appreciated and hes very fun to solo with.

[Sartax]

My monk (human) is about 10K from lvl 20 right now. It is my 3rd toon to take to 20, previously I had an elf AA and then a dwarf cleric. When I hit lvl 17 on my monk, I used my free feat swap on this toon to switch from Drk monk to Light Monk.

biggest different i've seen is damage output; I don't do as much DPS as I did as a dark monk. You swap Touch of Death (Instakill or 500dmg) for Rise of the Phoenix (Raise Dead) which I have only used about 5 times to raise a healer.

The biggest difference is the ability of the Light Monk to buff the party - Align the Heavens saves all casters 25% SP for 1min when used and it is a great ability. Also, you get finishing moves that buff the party for saves, attack, resistance to stun, blur, etc. All these things are really good for the betterment of the group as a whole. I do use them for soloing as well. You also get ki moves that act like cleric spells - lesser restoration, blindness restoration, remove disease, remove curse etc.

As far as Shintao track for Light Monk - i've found it to be VERY useful. Vale turns into your own solo playground - as you can turn almost everything into Jade or Dismiss everything at only a small Ki cost. You also have an absolute blast against any undead. You can encase Undead and outsiders into Jade prison (elementals, undead, devils, orothons, etc)

Looking back at my decision, I think I made the right one FOR ME. I've really enjoyed my Light Monk and I find myself much more usefull now in raids and groups. I still do adequate damage. The main thing to concentrate on i would say is collecting situational handwraps; start early collecting them since they are difficult to find sometimes. I got lucky and found a +2 Metalline of PG for only like 50K on the AH and I feel they work better than my inherent Shintao feat for DR (I don't know what it is, but my base damage goes way up when I use those on Harry as opposed to +5 Shocking Burst/Holy burst wraps etc.)

[johnnyputrid]

biggest different i've seen is damage output; I don't do as much DPS as I did as a dark monk. You swap Touch of Death (Instakill or 500dmg) for Rise of the Phoenix (Raise Dead) which I have only used about 5 times to raise a healer.

Some suggestions if I may:

Rise of the Phoenix is pretty much worthless when you have the ability to craft greensteel Raise Dead clickies. Your AP could be better spent elsewhere. The Improved Recovery enhancements are also possible prereqs for Shintao and are a much better contributer to you and your party's survivability - more healing amp means it becomes easier to heal you, draining less of the healer's resources.

You also get ki moves that act like cleric spells - lesser restoration, blindness restoration, remove disease, remove curse etc.

All of those effects are freely available on potions. Again, your AP could be better spent elsewhere. Why waste a bunch of ki on a Lesser Restore move when you could just drink a pot?

I got lucky and found a +2 Metalline of PG for only like 50K on the AH and I feel they work better than my inherent Shintao feat for DR (I don't know what it is, but my base damage goes way up when I use those on Harry as opposed to +5 Shocking Burst/Holy burst wraps etc.)

Not sure why you seem to be doing more damage with MofPG wraps - I use a set of Holy of PG with the force damage ritual and do pretty decent damage for a Dex/Wis light monk. Perhaps you are just having bad damage rolls or something. A set of Holy of whatever wraps is the only thing a Shintao III needs for fighting Harry. Holy of EOB/GEOB/LOB/GLOB would be ideal, but just plain Holy works fine. You should be doing more damage with Holy wraps than PG wraps (2d6 vs 1d6).

[Musouka]

Seriously, why would they put 2 different paths if one was absolutely better than the other in every way? That would just be redundant.

Choose a path that best fits your playstyle, that is all.

[Shuleagh]

Hello all , I'm interested in making a monk. Probably balance out the stats nicely IE balanced Str, Dex, Wis and Con but!

I was wondering which is the best path to take Light Monk or Dark Monk. Can somebody point out the advantages and disadvantages of each? Maybe just list them in Bullet point to make it easier to understand or read?

Thank you

If you've never played a monk before and don't have the loot ready to gear one out go light monk. You'll get:

-Ability to bypass Silver, Cold Iron and Byeshk damage reduction. This on top of the Adamantine and Lawful bypass monks get at certain levels means you will bypass the damage reduction of almost every monster in the game with any weapon that does "Good" type damage.
-Good buffs that help cover for your weak gear. (25% less mana cost to all allies for a minute, +2 to hit, saves and skills to all allies for 2 minutes, Immunity to stuns, sleep, daze to all allies for 30 seconds, 20% concealment buff to all allies for a minute)
-Multiple stuns that again let you contribute even if you have weak gear.

Once you have the gear though a dark monk is pretty much right up there with the best dps in the game. So that would be my suggestion after you have the loot.

[Cryohazard]

I personally prefer dark over light just for the raw DPS you can crank out. While light monks can buff a party(Horoth hates them for their anti-stun finisher), dark monks can also curse a single target with their strikes, so thats situationally handy as well. Dark monks are a little bit more gear intensive just because they don't have the DR breaking ability like their light counterparts.

As for recommended builds, you mentioned you wanted a balanced build. If you decide to go Dark monk, I'd recommend Anthios888's Rockan Robin build. I modified mine slightly for Helf, and it is a great all-purpose build! If you want to try a less balanced, flat out DPS pwnagesauce/tank capable build, I'd recommend Hydro's WF Metaru build.

my 2cp

[CountHenri]

I personally prefer dark over light just for the raw DPS you can crank out. While light monks can buff a party(Horoth hates them their anti-stun finisher), dark monks can also curse a single target with their strikes, so thats situationally handy as well. Dark monks are a little bit more gear intensive just because they don't have the DR breaking ability like their light counterparts.

As for recommended builds, you mentioned you wanted a balanced build. If you decide to go Dark monk, I'd recommend Anthios888's Rockan Robin build. I modified mine slightly for Helf, and it is a great all-purpose build! If you want to try a less balanced, flat out DPS pwnagesauce/tank capable build, I'd recommend Hydro's WF Metaru build.

my 2cp

Second that ~ got a 2nd Life Rockan Robin and he's a blast...

Touch of Death ~ Stunning ~ Ninja Fade...

Water Walking works in Lord of Blades to get those Pillars as well...

With Monk Past Life and the Garmets of Equilibrium he's doing 2d14 with those little fists in a whirlwind of punchy hurtiness...

[Provenance]

Water Walking works in Lord of Blades to get those Pillars as well...

Oh there's an use for such a cool ability, didn't run Lord of Blades yet, 50 TPs away from getting the pack. :P

[Newbie]

Just wanted to mention that the player behind the character is generally more important.

I currently have a 32 point dark monk that I've been playing. It's nice especially to see my touch of death go off like mad.

both have advantages and I plan on trying out light monk before TRing.

[gamj]

dark monks can also curse a single target with their strikes, so thats situationally handy as well.

Considering purples are immune to the curses and dark finishers, a lot of reds too, and the DC being ****, the curses and dark finishers shouldn't be a turning point in your decision...

However, I enjoy my Dark monk and have a blast with him. In Ultimate Air Stance, hitting Touch of Death to see it proc 4 times due to double-triple-quad strike is pretty sweet.. 250 to 2000 negative damage. It kinda attracts a little aggro though. You have to learn to manage it.

[Kinerd]

In playing just about every melee cast to a degree where their gear was "above average quality" I found that my monks DPS was lackluster when compared to my other toons. That being the case I find that Dark just doesn't offer much value to a team. If the team just wanted a pure dps for a slot, the would be better off investing in someone else.

So then I respeced to light. He still contributes to damage output but his utility is his real boon.


IMO a dark monk in a group or raid is really only able to offer dps, and it doesn't offer all that much (when compared to other options*) where as a Light monk can supply some dps but offer a lot more utility.

I am now very happy with my halfelf light monk, his stunning fist is more reliable, hes group buffs are always appreciated and hes very fun to solo with.

Agree 100%, and I would further stress the soloability part.

I got lucky and found a +2 Metalline of PG for only like 50K on the AH and I feel they work better than my inherent Shintao feat for DR (I don't know what it is, but my base damage goes way up when I use those on Harry as opposed to +5 Shocking Burst/Holy burst wraps etc.)

Unfortunately, handwraps are ridiculously, embarrassingly buggy. Things that should be in no way possible like what you have observed are frequent occurrences. My monk's damage goes up by 3 points when I equip a certain pair of +1 handwraps, his to-hit is like a roulette wheel, the list goes on. To make matters worse, there's no indication that anyone at Turbine has any idea what's going on with them. It seems like each update creates new and more bizarre handwrap bugs.

Seriously, why would they put 2 different paths if one was absolutely better than the other in every way? That would just be redundant.

Choose a path that best fits your playstyle, that is all.

If I may: Mechanic vs. Assassin. Deepwood Sniper vs. Arcane Archer. All people make mistakes, and Turbine employees are people. They are no more capable of creating a perfectly balanced gaming environment than they are of breathing granite or photosynthesis.