Questions Twf Drow Paladin

[Bored_Turtle]

First which is better?
Short sword
Rapier
Kopesh


Second is staying Pure ok or is taking 2 in rogue worth it?

Last does wisdom need to start at 8 to keep dps?

[CanuckWisdom]

If you have a free feat, I suspect khopesh. If you have extra action points, but tight on feats, rapier. The Cove short sword is really nice though.

But go dwarven axes imo, because it will look cool.

If your pure pally 8 wisdom is okay, a +6 item will put you at 14 and allow you to cast everything/you dont really need more.

[Bored_Turtle]

This is my first idea of a TWF Drow Paladin using shortswords.

I can take cleave and exchange it for Kopesh

What is the difference in Short Sword, Rapier, and Kopesh in relation to a KotC Paladin?
Drow get Bonuses to shortsword and rapier. Drow Paladin gets additional bonuses to short sword.
I know Kopesh is known for criticals, but I can't decide between the weapons. I just want to know what the perks are for each end-game.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Flocks 
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(20 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 302
Spell Points: 300 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 15
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    19
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             17                    21

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 5
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     3
Bluff                 3                     5
Concentration         1                     1
Diplomacy             7                    28
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                     5
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            3                     5
Jump                  2                     4
Listen               -1                     2
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                 -1                     2
Swim                  2                     4
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      5                    16.5

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage II
Enhancement: Vulkoor's Avatar
Enhancement: Follower of Vulkoor
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might IV

[Indoran]

Drow TWF = Rapiers

Khopesh = 1 feat you DONT have and rapiers with racials can be as good and you also need all the to hit you can get for epics (paladins have problems there).

Shortswords = Gimp option tbh.

Take the sovereign religion for an excellent heal. Vulkoors pet will be useful until around level 10.

I capped 1 Drow Paladin/Rogue. It was fun... now it's an amazing past life.

[Battlehawke]

Dwarf - Dwarven Axe
Drow -Rapier
Human-Khopesh
WF or Horc should be THF

2 Monk adds Evasion, a Feat and very High Survivability..Fists are the better weapon.
2 Rog adds Evasion, potential Max UMD
2 Ftr adds 2 Feats, Tower Shield, extra Str

[Aelithia]

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...11&postcount=7

Don't have time to look at your build too much, but just at a glance I'd say; don't put the .5 rank in any skill; half a rank does nothing. I'd also skip the cleave feat and take extend/prof. Khopesh depending on your weapon choice, and possibly move the feats around (toughness earlier, power attack later, etc.)

[Calebro]

don't put the .5 rank in any skill; half a rank does nothing

Absolutely false.

Cha 16 +2 tome +2 AP +6 item +2 ship = 28 / +9

11 ranks
9 Cha
4 GH
3 cartouche
2 luck
----------
29

That's a 50/50 shot on heal scrolls and the ability to use raise scrolls out of combat. I'd hardly call that worthless. And that's really easy to get. With the right party/gear/buffs, you can hit no fail heal scrolls without breaking a sweat.
All at half ranks.

[Mithran]

Absolutely false.

Cha 16 +2 tome +2 AP +6 item +2 ship = 28 / +9

11 ranks
9 Cha
4 GH
3 cartouche
2 luck
----------
29

That's a 50/50 shot on heal scrolls and the ability to use raise scrolls out of combat. I'd hardly call that worthless. And that's really easy to get. With the right party/gear/buffs, you can hit no fail heal scrolls without breaking a sweat.
All at half ranks.

Nellas, my 18 Paladin (DoS)/2 Monk is well-geared and is 90% on Heal Scrolls.

32 Charisma
Seven-Fingered Gloves
Supreme Tyrant Charisma Skills Greensteel Goggles
Greater Heroism

[Battlehawke]

Sorry, can't see your feats on my phone and won't be home till tonight, but as TWF Pally the usual feats are: TWF x 3, Power Attack, Improved Crit, Toughness and Extend ..

[Aelithia]

Absolutely false.

Cha 16 +2 tome +2 AP +6 item +2 ship = 28 / +9

11 ranks
9 Cha
4 GH
3 cartouche
2 luck
----------
29

That's a 50/50 shot on heal scrolls and the ability to use raise scrolls out of combat. I'd hardly call that worthless. And that's really easy to get. With the right party/gear/buffs, you can hit no fail heal scrolls without breaking a sweat.
All at half ranks.

...What?

Maybe I wasn't too clear with my original statement. The build he provided has UMD listed as 16.5 at level 20. If the .5 part of that actually makes sense (i.e. 11.5 ranks in UMD > 11 ranks), then I guess I have some re-learning to do.

[Calebro]

...What?

Maybe I wasn't too clear with my original statement. The build he provided has UMD listed as 16.5 at level 20. If the .5 part of that actually makes sense (i.e. 11.5 ranks in UMD > 11 ranks), then I guess I have some re-learning to do.

I guess I misinterpreted what you meant. It sounded like you were telling him to never spend points in cross class skills, but worded strangely.

[TempestAlphaOmega]

Absolutely false.

Cha 16 +2 tome +2 AP +6 item +2 ship = 28 / +9

11 ranks
9 Cha
4 GH
3 cartouche
2 luck
----------
29

That's a 50/50 shot on heal scrolls and the ability to use raise scrolls out of combat. I'd hardly call that worthless. And that's really easy to get. With the right party/gear/buffs, you can hit no fail heal scrolls without breaking a sweat.
All at half ranks.

I think you missunderstood what he was saying. It was not that you should not take skills that cost 2 points to get 1 rank but rather ending with a skill that only has a half rank in it is worthless. If you take a look at the skill breakdown you will see that the poster left a .5 in one of the skills at cap.


See what happens when you get interupted at work by people who have the nerve to want you to do said work? You end up making comments that have already been clarified.....

[Bored_Turtle]

I've made this Drow about 5 times experimenting at low levels, and am almost to the point of making a THF Warforged Paladin.

I'm f2p for now, but I have warforged and drow unlocked. This build was originally an attempt to make use out of the useless Drow. I have made a Warforged Barbarian and Sorcerer, and I love them both. I hate to think that all those store points were wasted on Drow for nothing.

Does this TWF Drow paladin build turn out fine at later lvls, or does it always suck? Maybe I'm just a TWF hater.

Why are there no good sword and board builds for solo?

[Plutocracy]

First which is better?
Short sword
Rapier
Kopesh


Second is staying Pure ok or is taking 2 in rogue worth it?

Last does wisdom need to start at 8 to keep dps?

1) Rapier for drow, with the tier 3 level 16 or 20 Cutthroat's Smallblade being one exception, as it has a rapier's crit. range, corrosive salt, and 6% doublestrike. Ideally, one of those in your offhand and a LitII rapier in your main hand for most stuff. Drow enhancements work for both rapier/shortsword so nice combo there.

2) If you have tomes/lots of build points go pure for max DPS (Capstone+Divine Might IV), but it will require 20 base CHA.

If it will be a major sacrifice to get that by level 20, or you want more survivability, go 2 rogue. Little less DPS (Still has 1d6+3 sneak and hasteboost I), but full UMD, evasion, maybe even OL/Disable a bit.

Generally, unless you have tomes/TR build points, easier to build a 2 rogue/18 pali stat wise.

3) Start with 8 wisdom. +6 item=level 4 spells no problem.

[Plutocracy]

I've made this Drow about 5 times experimenting at low levels, and am almost to the point of making a THF Warforged Paladin.

I'm f2p for now, but I have warforged and drow unlocked. This build was originally an attempt to make use out of the useless Drow. I have made a Warforged Barbarian and Sorcerer, and I love them both. I hate to think that all those store points were wasted on Drow for nothing.

Does this TWF Drow paladin build turn out fine at later lvls, or does it always suck? Maybe I'm just a TWF hater.

Why are there no good sword and board builds for solo?

Palis do not shine as much with THF race combos, for two reasons:
1) Both HO and WF have -2 CHA, which pretty much borks higher levels of Divine Might

2) Divine favor, Divine Might, and extra damage from KOTC and capstone benefit more from as many attacks made as possible (TWF), not fewer, more massive attacks (THF), as the damage boosts apply to each attack.

It peaks later, THF always dominates early on. With the feat scarcity, a TWF drow pali won't really shine till level 15 or so, but still fun the whole way I think. In fact, I often used Carnifex until level 9 or so, simply because TWF doesn't really take off on pali builds till around then.

For feats its tough.

2 rog/pali
1 toughness
3 TWF
6 PA
9 Improved Crit: pierce
12 ITWF
15 GTWF
18 Extend? This one you have some choice.

Sadly, TWF feats not fully taken till level 15, just the nature of the prereqs and when you get feat choice.

20 pal
1 Toughness
3 TWF
6 ITWF
9 IC: pierce
12 GTWF
15 PA
18 extend?

At least it gets GTWF by level 12

[Plutocracy]

This is my first idea of a TWF Drow Paladin using shortswords.

I can take cleave and exchange it for Kopesh

What is the difference in Short Sword, Rapier, and Kopesh in relation to a KotC Paladin?
Drow get Bonuses to shortsword and rapier. Drow Paladin gets additional bonuses to short sword.
I know Kopesh is known for criticals, but I can't decide between the weapons. I just want to know what the perks are for each end-game.

The reason rapiers are so great on Pali's are Exalted Smite and Divine Sacrifice. They increase your crit. multiplier by x2 or x1 respectively.

With Exalted Smite your rapier gets an amazing x4 crit multiplier, with a 13-20 crit. range.

With most shortswords (except the sweet Cutthroat's Smallblade), its x4 crit, but only 15-20 range. No real perk here over rapier, but they are both piercing weapons and benefit from drow enhancements, so no build choice has to be made, feel free to switch between shortswords and rapiers freely.

Khopesh gets a whopping x5 crit multiplier, but only 15-20 range as well. If human, Khopesh is better choice, but humans have trouble meeting Divine Might prereqs, so I would go drow if stat limited.

For Drow: Rapier (and smallblade)>Khopesh>shortsword

For Human: Khopesh>eveything else

[Kenpai]

I hate to think that all those store points were wasted on Drow for nothing.

They were. You can unlock Drow by doing every F2P quest between levels 1 and 5 on elite. (not including Proof in the Poison)

[Bored_Turtle]

They were. You can unlock Drow by doing every F2P quest between levels 1 and 5 on elite. (not including Proof in the Poison)

I thought maybe it would be nice to start with a drow on a new server as opposed to earning it first.

[unbongwah]

Does this TWF Drow paladin build turn out fine at later lvls, or does it always suck? Maybe I'm just a TWF hater.

Without knowing what you dislike about your drow pally, it's difficult to say. If you think your TWF DPS is too low compared to your THF builds, the good news is it does get better; the bad news is it will take a while, to get both ITWF & GTWF and your higher-lvl pally DPS abilities. If you're worried about HPs, the good news is once you get some Toughness enhs, +CON item, False Life, etc. going, you should have a comfortable number of HPs (at least while leveling); the bad news is you're always gonna lag behind the other races, esp. WF & dwarves.

Why are there no good sword and board builds for solo?

Short answer: because S&B largely sucks in DDO, esp. solo.

S&B builds trade DPS for AC (and dmg mitigation if you've got Shield Mastery feats); this means you take longer to kill things but take less damage - in theory. In practice, you're often better off just killing things ASAP, which means going for full-DPS mode.

[-Zyxas-]

Shortsword should not be an option, except a select few as others have said. Much worse crit profile in both crit range and multiplier, compared to rapier or khopesh.

Khopesh if you're okay with sacrificing the feat you would take in place of it.
Rapier if you are not okay with losing that feat.
The feat is usually extend. It allows you to be lazier and to minimally increase DPS by not having to take attacking time off by recasting. Khopesh is always more DPS than rapier because the crit range advantage of rapiers only gets it to a better overall crit profile (non-crit rate + (crit rate x Multiplier)) while smiting or sacrificing, which are only a small fraction of all your attacks even though it seems you're using them constantly. Extend also allows the profitable use of Madstone, because your buffs will last the whole madstone duration (not completely sure on this?) so you will gain DPS and HP - however, not everyone has madstone and not everyone would want to do this.

Rapier is NOT better damage for a paladin than khopesh, however Extend in its place can also add damage (but probably not quite as much - haven't done calculations but my instincts tell me ~4-5 more attacks per 4 minutes is not as much as the crit profile difference). IMO this leaves the khopesh vs rapier debate to DPS (with khopesh) vs Utility (with extend) and also possible weapon availability factors and personal opinions toward the weapon types.