How could they do that to us??

[Zachski]

I'm sorry, I must not have been clear. Lemme rephrase. Why are you saying that any new p2p race will be weak when every p2p race thus far is strong?

Probably because they haven't been.

Drow are pretty weak, actually. They don't have any DC advantage over humans. They have one less feat than humans. And they gain no benefit from 32 point builds (and while you can say it's already a 32 point build, it actually ends up being inferior to other 32 point builds)

Of course, Drow are practically F2P with their incredibly low access, so it works.

However... I say this mainly because, even though the P2P races have been pretty strong, so have almost all of the F2P races. Humans are excellent at everything, especially on feat starved classes. Halflings can get a neat boost to DPS with their ability to sneak attack through spent AP. Dwarves get a nice bonus to health, which is great for barbarians and fighters, and works almost as well as Warforged. The only F2P races that are weak are Elf... and Drow. And that's mostly because they give up 2 CON and don't get much in return, whereas every other race's sacrifice is either not a big deal, or the benefits they get greatly outweigh their sacrifice.

So, my problem with Gnome isn't necessarily that it'd be weak, but that it wouldn't have enough to offer in variety. It's essentially a hybrid of a halfling and a dwarf. And it has a bonus to illusion, the worst spell school in the game.

We do need an INT race, because Drow is the only one and it doesn't actually get a focus on int, it gets the same dex focus that Elf gets. (Which is why Elf and Drow are so weak...)

Unfortunately, gnome isn't an int race, unless you include one of the house rule tinker gnomes that have been explicitly said not to exist in Eberron.

Honestly, I would much prefer it if elf was changed from a dex race to an int race. We already have halfling for the dex race, elf is just... redundant. And considering their favored class is supposed to be a spellcaster, it doesn't actually make sense.

To clear up what I meant earlier... benefit doesn't necessarily mean 'superior stats'. Benefit can mean 'more flexibility', 'more options' and such like that.

Gnome doesn't offer any more options. It is a dwarf that has a penalty to strength instead of cha. It is another con race. We have two of those already. Unless Turbine decides to make them the int race, which would involve a house rule that's foreign to Eberron, what do they have to offer?

[Norean]

Probably because they haven't been.

Drow are pretty weak, actually. They don't have any DC advantage over humans. They have one less feat than humans. And they gain no benefit from 32 point builds (and while you can say it's already a 32 point build, it actually ends up being inferior to other 32 point builds)

Of course, Drow are practically F2P with their incredibly low access, so it works.

However... I say this mainly because, even though the P2P races have been pretty strong, so have almost all of the F2P races. Humans are excellent at everything, especially on feat starved classes. Halflings can get a neat boost to DPS with their ability to sneak attack through spent AP. Dwarves get a nice bonus to health, which is great for barbarians and fighters, and works almost as well as Warforged. The only F2P races that are weak are Elf... and Drow. And that's mostly because they give up 2 CON and don't get much in return, whereas every other race's sacrifice is either not a big deal, or the benefits they get greatly outweigh their sacrifice.

So, my problem with Gnome isn't necessarily that it'd be weak, but that it wouldn't have enough to offer in variety. It's essentially a hybrid of a halfling and a dwarf. And it has a bonus to illusion, the worst spell school in the game.

We do need an INT race, because Drow is the only one and it doesn't actually get a focus on int, it gets the same dex focus that Elf gets. (Which is why Elf and Drow are so weak...)

Unfortunately, gnome isn't an int race, unless you include one of the house rule tinker gnomes that have been explicitly said not to exist in Eberron.

Honestly, I would much prefer it if elf was changed from a dex race to an int race. We already have halfling for the dex race, elf is just... redundant. And considering their favored class is supposed to be a spellcaster, it doesn't actually make sense.

To clear up what I meant earlier... benefit doesn't necessarily mean 'superior stats'. Benefit can mean 'more flexibility', 'more options' and such like that.

Gnome doesn't offer any more options. It is a dwarf that has a penalty to strength instead of cha. It is another con race. We have two of those already. Unless Turbine decides to make them the int race, which would involve a house rule that's foreign to Eberron, what do they have to offer?

What do they have to offer? They offer the ability to be a gnome. Some people play this game to role play. I was even in a role playing guild once upon a time. There's more to this game than just raiding, getting the best gear, and complaining in the forums about the game being to easy and demanding that the game's difficulty should be increased to match the power of your epiced out toon. I'm not saying you specifically do that but I'm sure you've seen those posts as well.

Oh, and a word of advice: If you plan to say that a dwarf makes a better fighter or barb than a half orc again, do it where no one can hear you.

[Zachski]

What do they have to offer? They offer the ability to be a gnome. Some people play this game to role play. I was even in a role playing guild once upon a time. There's more to this game than just raiding, getting the best gear, and complaining in the forums about the game being to easy and demanding that the game's difficulty should be increased to match the power of your epiced out toon. I'm not saying you specifically do that but I'm sure you've seen those posts as well.

Roll up a beardless dwarf, take two less points in strength, two more points in cha, and role play. Boom, instant gnome.

Also, by that logic, we need Dragonborn, because they offer the ability to be a dragon-like creature. And that's awesome.

Oh, and a word of advice: If you plan to say that a dwarf makes a better fighter or barb than a half orc again, do it where no one can hear you.

I've been trying to find a funny way to address this, but eh, I can't think of one, so...

You might want to re-read my post, bud. Because it doesn't say that anywhere.

[Norean]

Roll up a beardless dwarf, take two less points in strength, two more points in cha, and role play. Boom, instant gnome.

Also, by that logic, we need Dragonborn, because they offer the ability to be a dragon-like creature. And that's awesome.



I've been trying to find a funny way to address this, but eh, I can't think of one, so...

You might want to re-read my post, bud. Because it doesn't say that anywhere.

You're not the only person who says there should be dragonborn. Furthermore, I apologize if I misquoted you. Currently it's so late that it's early so I'm somewhat illiterate at the moment.

[Zachski]

You're not the only person who says there should be dragonborn. Furthermore, I apologize if I misquoted you. Currently it's so late that it's early so I'm somewhat illiterate at the moment.

Bah, I've made worse mistakes when it's late at night, so don't worry about it.

Also, sorry for having a chip on my shoulder about the whole thing. It gets really annoying when every suggestion for any non-Gnome race (except perhaps Shifter and Kalashtar, if only because they get lumped in with gnome) is immediately shouted down because "NO, Gnomes/Shifters/Kalashtar FIRST!", regardless of the quality of the actual suggestion. Not saying that you do that, but it's the common thing.

So, even if I'm not the only one who wants dragonborn, that doesn't necessarily mean anything, because more people are vocalizing support for gnomes/shifters/kalashtar, and Turbine pays attention to popularity, because naturally, that earns them more money.

And yes, I've tried that 4E Facebook game, it's kinda neat, but I dare say it may be worse than actual 4E (if only for the lack of class selection) and I know most people here loathe 4E with a vengeance.