Ranger Discussion

[Captain_Wizbang]

After reading many posts about Rangers & their nerfness etc.. I decided we should put our thoughts together and formulate a viable proposal for Turbine to check out!

Rules.
Please don't flame other peoples ideas, constructive criticism only.
Be realistic, nuf said.
Please dont compare Rangers to other classes, this is about rangers!

I put together a little graphic to open this debate. The spells listed are ones that I made as DM, and people use them a lot! (unlike the current spells in ddo) They are based on a rangers knowledge & abilities to command plants & animals!
Have fun people!

[Captain_Wizbang]

Sorry for the blurry font! It looks great in my Photoshop!

Under capstone, it says; +?
That is a question mark for how much should we allow.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

The only thing that worries me is, my Exploiter wouldn't benefit from that Tempest capstone. Unless I TR'ed him of course.

On an 18/1/1 the capstone would have to be super powerful to make me unsplash out of Monk and Rogue. We discussed all of that back in like page 30-40 of the Exploiter thread.

[Brinsiger]

OP's title should have been please return Rangers to their Pre-NERF strength! Oh.... wait..... people cried long and hard that we Rangers were so strong and deadly, near or far! I have learned how to play my nerfed toon, with a few re-spec's and practice I can hold myown again. Please leave well enough alone!

[Captain_Wizbang]

We discussed all of that back in like page 30-40 of the Exploiter thread.

This is about rangers, true rangers, not anything else!

[Thar]

Rangers are still nerf'd compared to the other melee classes who continually get upgrades to dps. Ranged combat is still subpar and might even be behind the artificier repeater xbow? (anyone do the calc's?). Tempest is still behind a lower level fighter without the 10% bonus from prior.

I've posted a number of ways to fix in the past. from adding speed boosts for finesse weapons to adjusting the pre's closer to what they were before.

The dev's probably feel that they "fixed" it before and it's ok now or someone would have said something... haha Or that other classes are worse off (ie bards, archmage) that needs help first.

[Thar]

This is about rangers, true rangers, not anything else!

Any true ranger tempest would be considerably underpowered compared to a expoiter or other 18/x splash so while a true ranger needs the most help, the others are under powered and need to be in the discussion. The fix needs to be to the 6/12/18 pre along with the capstone to keep it from falling behind at any step of the game.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Any true ranger tempest would be considerably underpowered compared to a expoiter or other 18/x splash so while a true ranger needs the most help, the others are under powered and need to be in the discussion. The fix needs to be to the 6/12/18 pre along with the capstone to keep it from falling behind at any step of the game.

Agreed, but very reluctantly!
I append my comment earlier! Its my thread, I can do that!
Thanks for making me look at it that way.
I do have serious issues with people saying rangers are under-what-ever though.

I have 3 great tempest builds, that are always accepted on raids, and not for barkskin!
Well, the toons are accepted, it's the operator that has problems! LOL

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I don't think PRE choice should have any effect on which animal companion, spells or capstones you can take.

[Captain_Wizbang]

I don't think PRE choice should have any effect on which animal companion, spells or capstones you can take.

You people in Brandon Fla need to come over to this side of the Bay! We have Tiki Bars!

Ill be posting why the pets are different for each PRE later tonight or in the morning. The animation Im making speaks for itself.

[Seikojin]

I dunno about those suggestions. They seem a little out of balance... Here are my sugegstions...

Arcane Archer:
~ Summoned Pets:
~~ None/Class Basic

~ Capstone:
~~ 25% Aclarity seems decent.
~~ + to hit? I think the whole decent dex and BAB covers that as well as a fighter does with theirs. If not, I think 4 or 8 would be capstone worthy.
~~ No true Strike. AA's have imbued arrows for a reason.

~ Path Extras (pre bonuses?):
~~ I like the burst idea. Perhaps tiered burst chance for each tier of AA. A full specc'd AA should have a decent chance to have burst elemental damage from their imbued arrows (like 30%).

~ Spells (guessing special spells limited to their Pre/Path):
~~ None/Class Basic

Deepwood Sniper:
~ Summoned Pets:
~~ None/Class Basic

~ Capstone:
~~ 25% Aclarity seems decent.
~~ + to hit? I think the whole decent dex and BAB covers that as well as a fighter does with theirs. If not, I think 4 or 8 would be capstone worthy.

~ Path Extras (pre bonuses?):
~~ True Strike: Should offer a bonus to hit and damage, as well as crit increase. IIRC it does that, for deepwood sniper. I think the cooldown should be more like Cleave though.
~~ Manyshot (stance): Instead of having a cooldown and a long timer, I think deepwoods should have a stance form of manyshot. Same rules of - to hit and limits of shots based on lvl, but it isn't a timer ability. Movement cancels the stance.

~ Spells (guessing special spells limited to their Pre/Path):
~~ None/Class Basic

Tempest:
~ Summoned Pets:
~~ None/Class Basic

~ Capstone:
~~ Melee Aclarity should be 15%. Tempest should be the swings per second kings.

~ Path Extras (pre bonuses?):
~~ Perhaps add a melee aclarity for tier 3 that stacks with ranger capstone melee aclarity to reach the 15%?
~~ Increased offhand bonuses per tier (which I think they already have)
~~ Increased doublestrike chance. Like adds 1.25% for tier 1, 1.3 for tier 2, and 1.35 for tier 3. These stack with any gear doublestrike bonuses.

~ Spells (guessing special spells limited to their Pre/Path):
~~ None/Class Basic


I think overall, rangers could use some attention... I would like them to get their pets. It would be nice if they had trippers or webbers, like spiders.

[rodallec]

I don't think rangers are "nerfed" or subpar
Everyone just thinks they're drizzt or legolas?
My ranger often jumps over 60 str and 700 hp and I love pew pewing
Sure the pres could use a bump things I've thought of which are probably stupid:

Deepwood tier2
Deadly shot
On critical strikes your dex mod is added as seeker.
Seems op? It's not.

Deepwood 3
(insert cool name)
While stationary and out of point blank shot range
You shoot 2 arrows at a time instead of 1

Something similar to this would be nice for AA 3 or capstone.

I don't think these are op but may bump ranged up a bit.

[licho]

Or just:
Pet: Multiply CR of Nature Ally by 4 each.
No need to concentrate on it more.

Arcane Archer:
Tier I True Strike - now its literally true strike, dice is put on 20 and inciate vorpal strike.
Tier II Phasing Arrows - for 5 sec can hit enemies even if way is blocked
Tier III Explosive Arrows - One shot, but arrows after hitting iniciate aoe (similar to fireball) 1d6/lv chosen energy blast.

Deepwood Sniper:
Feat Pin Shot - tactical feat which after hitting enemy entangles him (like web) dc=10+dex+lv while entanged str check to break free. Granted for deepwood on tier II free.
Hail of Arrows - cone shape aoe, everyone in is hitted by voley. Granted for Deepwood Sniper at tier III
+ Each tier of PrE reduce threat generated by ranged attacks by 10%
+ some others extras.

Tempest
Tier III, 5% double strike which also trigers offhand proc. Full str mod to offhands.

Melee Capstone
+2 Dex, 10% double strike with melee, with offhands as well, 5 more elemental resistance

Ranged Capstone
As is +2Dex, and 5 more elemental resistance. (you can pick only one capstone)

Much simpler to implement

General changes:
Bow str is granted to every character proficency with a bow.
Rangers receive PBS as 1st level feat (so they not be sad)

Speed increase from Rapid Shot now apply to every bow user.

Rapid SHot is a toggled stance, which is no a stance granting -2 hit and dex % to shoot second arrow. Do not take effect while moving, or manyshoting.

Manyshot has cooldown reduced to 1min, but duracion to only 6sec.

Precise shot have adicional effect of ignoring 10% fortification of enemy.

[grodon9999]

I want a sheep as my pet.

[noinfo]

I want a sheep as my pet.

You baaaaaaad baaaaaad ranger. Now I need to resist baaaaad New Zealand jokes before they get me into trouble.
And you can't slot a docent on a sheep.... Legally

[herzkos]

I want a sheep as my pet.

uh, oh... did you just want to tell your pet, " i love ewe"?

and uhhhm, there are no velcro gloves that i know of in DDO (least i hope not)

/edit, after further review, a sheep would be the ideal pet for ddo:
always wandering off and doing it's best to get killed.

[wgperi]

Tempest:
~ Capstone:
~~ Melee Aclarity should be 15%. Tempest should be the swings per second kings.

This is very solid to say. I sometimes look at the stack of SA dice on a pure rogue, plus assassin, and find it chocking, although not overpowered... but leaves the ranger to the least specialised spot into the Specialists group on his own capability. I always loved to play rangers cause of their amazing TWF skill, dexterous melee mobility and the ability to track/trap his ways into the favored environment. And none of these I find on DDO.

Since the F2P event Ive been playing this game that in the past 2 years have changed a lot. My understanding is that the overall of damage per second of most melees has increased significantly, and some old enhancements/capstones have become obsolete, and I say this based on the new Damage Boost enhancement too that I find very appropriate. Its time to think about Tempest enhancements as well, cause tempest rangers are a way behind the others melee intended classes.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You people in Brandon Fla need to come over to this side of the Bay! We have Tiki Bars!

Ill be posting why the pets are different for each PRE later tonight or in the morning. The animation Im making speaks for itself.

Grew up in Clearwater. Graduated from Largo Highschool (in 85! )

I go to SPC now, and do a work/study job in St Pete.

(a little out of date though....need to find a current Tiki bar. )




(I like AAs and I like Panthers!)




(and my stepdad's name is Ferd! )

[Rydin_Dirtay]

This is about rangers, true rangers, not anything else!

An 18/1/1 Exploiter is a true Ranger! So is a 12/7/1 build, so is a 15/4/1 build, so is a 14/6 build. What thar said. It's not just pure20 Rangers who need a little oomph. It's the PrE splits at 6/12/18.

[licho]

An 18/1/1 Exploiter is a true Ranger! So is a 12/7/1 build, so is a 15/4/1 build, so is a 14/6 build. What thar said. It's not just pure20 Rangers who need a little oomph. It's the PrE splits at 6/12/18.

Semi disagree.
IMO there is a huge difference in Ranger performance in comparison to other classes at level 1-12, and 13+.
Since:

Level 1-12:
- Free feats: 3x2wf, 5xranged, almost as good as fighter and all this with dex 8
- Evasion (!), diehard (not big fish, but here it works)
- Nice spells, Rams might, Resist, Protecion, bark to the max, jump
- Tempest gives +20% offhand
- FE: Undead + Giants

Levels 13+
- Spells: Fom, serious wounds
- Feat: HitPS Whaaat?
- 5% from Temp III
- Capstone?

Comparing 12 1st levels is unfair to only 8, but still... at the begining rangers get something, after 12 gain is very symbolical.

So buffs should concentrate on 12+, especially at Tempest III and Melee capstone.