Barbarian vs Fighter; Who does more damage?

[Feithlin]

The only modification I made to these criteria were to grant Haste, because... it's Haste. Otherwise, I used the Ravager and Shintao Sets, the non-epic Claw set, Litany of the Dead, and seeker 6 from Marilith Chain or wherever. The values I obtained against targets with 0 fort 0 resist were:

Half-orc Fighter, no Haste Boost: 347
Half-orc Fighter: 405
Half-elf Fighter: 407
Half-orc Barb, no Damage Boost: 407
Half-orc Barb: 432

Could you calculate dual Lit II khopeshes for comparison?

[Shade]

no one will agree.

So why not just watch some videos. Videos cant lie.

DPS Challenge.

[Feithlin]

no one will agree.

So why not just watch some videos. Videos cant lie.

DPS Challenge.

The videos have their advantage. Testing dps on portals and the epic giant give some informations, but it doesn't give all of the informations: SA damage isn't taken into account for example.
Spreadsheets have their limitations, the main being that they are theorical, but still are usefull for comparisons and to get informations about situations harder to test.

[Hulligan]

DPS Challenge.

This. Totally agree.

Barbs deal the most DPS on bosses with the same gear, that's for sure.
Fighters get their most damage from crits, whereas barbs are "pure dps" and barely rely on fortification. They are good for beating the trash and as general dps on raids / end bosses. With good gear can be even good for tanking if there is no capable barb around.
My first lifer barb was dealing the same damage as a TR-ed Fighter but was better tank for having more HP (for obvious reasons). Now that fighter did TR to barb because the post U11 damage boost closes the debate and turns the scale towards the barb.

[Moltier]

This. Totally agree.

Barbs deal the most DPS on bosses with the same gear, that's for sure.
Fighters get their most damage from crits, whereas barbs are "pure dps" and barely rely on fortification. They are good for beating the trash and as general dps on raids / end bosses. With good gear can be even good for tanking if there is no capable barb around.
My first lifer barb was dealing the same damage as a TR-ed Fighter but was better tank for having more HP (for obvious reasons). Now that fighter did TR to barb because the post U11 damage boost closes the debate and turns the scale towards the barb.

Yet, DPS test showed fighters were ahead before U11.
Also barbs get more damage from crits.

[Hulligan]

Yet, DPS test showed fighters were ahead before U11.

Exactly, because Sobrien has 0% fortification, which is not true for bosses. With a base 50% fort fighters lose more dps than barbs. True : Barbs deal more damage on a same crit, then fighters do, though fighters main dps comes from more frequent critting. No wonder you can't see any fighter in the DPS test vs the portal and yet see as much barbs as fighters vs Sobrien. Make an avarage of the two list and you'll get a result vs a standard raid boss.

[krogyy]

Exactly, because Sobrien has 0% fortification, which is not true for bosses. With a base 50% fort fighters lose more dps than barbs. True : Barbs deal more damage on a same crit, then fighters do, though fighters main dps comes from more frequent critting. No wonder you can't see any fighter in the DPS test vs the portal and yet see as much barbs as fighters vs Sobrien. Make an avarage of the two list and you'll get a result vs a standard raid boss.

it is not true at all that barbs are less affected from fortification than fighters.

in fact they are more affected. they have increased multiplier on 19-20 by 3. that is 6 more equivalent attacks per 20 swings regardless of weapon. a fighter at most gets a bonus of 3 equivalent attacks if using a x4 weapon. (they get increased seeker also but that is a minor contribution)

[Grenada]

For max dps, it really depends on the barbarian.

Has he killed himself yet, or is he still kicking?

[Moltier]

Exactly, because Sobrien has 0% fortification, which is not true for bosses. With a base 50% fort fighters lose more dps than barbs. True : Barbs deal more damage on a same crit, then fighters do, though fighters main dps comes from more frequent critting. No wonder you can't see any fighter in the DPS test vs the portal and yet see as much barbs as fighters vs Sobrien. Make an avarage of the two list and you'll get a result vs a standard raid boss.

Dear guildy.
Barbs loose more as fort increase. Not much more, but a tiny bit more.
And even on portals (100%fort, DR:10/- where faster attack speed loose more) fighters were better or the same.
I love my barb, coz weird but barbs arent one trick ponys. Awesome saves, aoe damages, tonn of hit points, but they had a bit less dps before U11. Less dps as long as a fighter have boosts.
U11 may change this, but i expect human/helf fighters to take the lead.

[Alex301]

This. Totally agree.

Barbs deal the most DPS on bosses with the same gear, that's for sure.
Fighters get their most damage from crits, whereas barbs are "pure dps" and barely rely on fortification. They are good for beating the trash and as general dps on raids / end bosses. With good gear can be even good for tanking if there is no capable barb around.
My first lifer barb was dealing the same damage as a TR-ed Fighter but was better tank for having more HP (for obvious reasons). Now that fighter did TR to barb because the post U11 damage boost closes the debate and turns the scale towards the barb.

And the extra sneak attack damage and damage boost of half elf tips it back in favour of fighters those times don't include sneak attack damage or buffs like bard songs, both of which benefit fighters more.

[grodon9999]

The videos have their advantage. Testing dps on portals and the epic giant give some informations, but it doesn't give all of the informations: SA damage isn't taken into account for example.
Spreadsheets have their limitations, the main being that they are theorical, but still are usefull for comparisons and to get informations about situations harder to test.

For what it's worth . . . my gimpy elf did a portal entry and the actually DPS (10,000 HP/the time is took to kill the portal) matched what the spreadsheet predicted within 1 DPS.

[Feithlin]

For what it's worth . . . my gimpy elf did a portal entry and the actually DPS (10,000 HP/the time is took to kill the portal) matched what the spreadsheet predicted within 1 DPS.

Nice confirmation of the value of theorical numbers.

[Thrudh]

For me, this covers it. I like UMD and even clickies too much to stay raged.

I usually have enough rages to dismiss them and re-apply clickables (like Displacement) and then re-rage in most quests...

[Absolute-Omniscience]

no one will agree.

This.


It's just so close it doesn't really matter, as long as one's not a ranger / paladin one's sure to have 95-100% of the max DPS, so one'll be fine. At that point it's all about gear / skill, anyways.

So why not just watch some videos. Videos cant lie.

On the contrary, videos very often lie, and it's very easy to manipulate results and make test biased or whatever in vidoes.
No SA in your "challanges" being a perfect example. As it exludes rogues and a lot of builds who are estimated to top DPS, it is, in fact, very biased.

When I get time I'll update my calculator for U11, but I have had quite a busy start at the university so will probably take a while, depending on how much time I have.

[grodon9999]

When I get time I'll update my calculator for U11, but have had quite a busy start at the university so will probably take a while, depending on how much time I have.

Don't forget that damage boost appears to affect Sneak attack as well

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Don't forget that damage boost appears to affect Sneak attack as well

Indeed. And hopefully we'll get some information on exactly which double strike effects stacks with which. Fabricators will probably stack with the 6% from a tier 2 lob weapon, but would like some confirmation on that.

[Alkindus]

Yet, DPS test showed fighters were ahead before U11.
Also barbs get more damage from crits.

I haven't had the time yet to update my current vid on that post after the damage boost gain/ past life loss.
I predict about a 1:53-1:54 ( did a 1:57 on lamm where I was down 4 damage from not having guild buffs + was very sloppy)
My barb is perfectly geared, but doesn't have the optimal past lives ( and honestly I don't care about my barb enough to go through 3 monk lives again). With a paladin pl + monk pl I see no reason why a perfectly geared barb wouldn't do 1:50 or so.
Compare that to the fighter that is perfectly geared, with optimal past live's 2:07.

I hope I'll get a break from school long enough this weekend to hop on ddo and video another giant, and do a portal as well for comparison.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Compare that to the fighter that is perfectly geared, with optimal past live's 2:07.

Just wanted to point out that that's without damage boost. Since H-elves (or humans) will be able to use both damage boost and haste boost at the same time, you can estimate that 2:07 to go down to 1:40 or so.

[grodon9999]

Just wanted to point out that that's without damage boost. Since H-elves (or humans) will be able to use both damage boost and haste boost at the same time, you can estimate that 2:07 to go down to 1:40 or so.

Losing all of the Horc Goodness?

[grodon9999]

Just wanted to point out that that's without damage boost. Since H-elves (or humans) will be able to use both damage boost and haste boost at the same time, you can estimate that 2:07 to go down to 1:40 or so.

Losing all of the Horc Goodness?

I'll see if I can talk my friend's Human into doing this.