Barbarian vs Fighter; Who does more damage?

[Varashad]

Barbarian:
+Able to attain the highest hp in the game.
+FB PrE is amazing for damage
+Faster speed
+Sprint Boost + Damage Boost
+Damage Resistance
+Constitution enhancements
+4 Skill points per level
-Limited rages, reducing damage significantly in long quests/raids.
-Somewhat feat starved
-Somewhat AP starved
-Vicious and Greater Vicious can be problematic
-No Strength enhancements

vs

Fighter:
+Massive boosts to damage with specific weapon
+Highest critical hit range capabilities
+Multiple Toughness feats are easily fitted in
+17 feats(18 if human)
+Good combat feat usage.
+Combat feat enhancements
+Haste boost
+Strength boosting enhancements
+8 action boosts per rests enable frequent usage
+Damage drops only slightly without Power Surge
-Slightly lower hp than barbarian(about 40-100 depending on build)
-Kensai is not as good for damage as FB
-Attack boost and Critical Accuracy enhancements are terrible
-Some what AP starved
-No Constitution enhancements
-Relies heavily on Haste Boost for boss dps
-2 Skill points per level

Okay. So, this is what I've found for Fighter vs Barbarian. I was originally planning on TRing my main into a WF or Horc barb, but now I'm not sure. My HOrc fighter absolutely destroys everything in his path, has more hp than my WF barbarian of a similar level, and is not dependent on rages.

He is however slow moving, and his lack of skill points keeps him on his back for a short period after being tripped. His strength is also lower than a barbarians, even with his fighter and horc enhancements.

I was wondering if someone smart out there would be so kind as to do DPS comparisons for me based on the criteria I will now list.

Assumes level 20 toons with maxed strength, and gear/effects that the fighter/barbarian can give themselves. You may use any gear in your calculations you want, although I would prefer the gear listed to be reasonably easy to attain(No epic items for example.) Barbarian Damage Boost IV and Fighter Haste Boost IV may or may not be included, but if you use one please factor in the other. Power Attack Enhancements must be included. Tomes may not be used in the calculations for strength bonuses. Both toons should be wielding Lit II Falchions with Greater Two Handed Fighting. Assume that FB III and Kensai III are used.

I think that covers my criteria. Thank you in advance all smart mathies!

[Khanyth]

-Limited rages, reducing damage significantly in long quests/raids.

I've run a lot of raids and can't really remember the last time I've ever ran out of rages.

-Vicious and Greater Vicious can be problematic

Not really. Hirings and healers are pretty good at solving that issue

-No Strength enhancements

Rage is a pretty good strength enhancement, imho

But other than that, the debate has been beaten to death. But it's really simple to solve... no gear, math, or anything else to consider:

No other class/combo can beat the pure barb, for the simple fact that our biceps frequently get mistaken for overlarge slab of ham.

Overlarge slabs of ham FTW!!!!!!!

[grodon9999]

I've run a lot of raids and can't really remember the last time I've ever ran out of rages.

The bard we had in Elite ToD on monday ran out of rages in part 1.

[Khanyth]

The bard we had in Elite ToD on monday ran out of rages in part 1.

I'm not a bard... I'm a barb

[Ystradmynach]

The player with better gear.

On a side note, Barbarian is a few classes I won't play. For one, they only have one PrE, and not enough feats available to make really a unique build (it is either fb or nothing), and secondly, there are plenty of other classes I can play that can hit nearly as hard while being able to wipe their butt without a healers help. The disadvantages of rage makes them too much trouble to bother with IMHO.

[paraplegic]

The player with better gear. and best skill

made a small correction

[Cold_Stele]

The player with better gear.

This.

The actual U11 DPS comparison was worked out by Absolute Omnipresence(?) in the Lammania threads, but looks like they're locked now, maybe shoot him a PM.

With changes to damage boost I believe top is HElf Ftr (but limited bursts), then HOrc Barb, then HOrc Ftr.

Don't quote me on that though...

[somenewnoob]

A plus to Barb is that you can use their face to disarm traps!

[Darkrok]

The disadvantages of rage makes them too much trouble to bother with IMHO.

For me, this covers it. I like UMD and even clickies too much to stay raged.

[grodon9999]

I'm not a bard... I'm a barb

One of these days I'll learn how to type . . .

What they guys said about the better gear. If maxed out I'd give the edge now to Barbarians (harder to typo if I type the whole word). Big issue now, which hopefully will get nerfed, is the insane amout of fortification in Elite/Epic content (75-80%). ESoS isn't best for that much fort and the barb isn't tied to one weapon to get all his ubber bonuses. Barb's viscious damage still works despite the fort and can swith to EAGA or a crafted weapon and be fine.

[Khanyth]

One of these days I'll learn how to type . . .

I kinda thought you meant barb too, but since I'm not on your server, I thought state it.

[Khanyth]

The player with better gear.

and as others have said.... skill too

On a side note, Barbarian is a few classes I won't play. For one, they only have one PrE, and not enough feats available to make really a unique build (it is either fb or nothing), and secondly, there are plenty of other classes I can play that can hit nearly as hard while being able to wipe their butt without a healers help. The disadvantages of rage makes them too much trouble to bother with IMHO.

Some I agree with and some I disagree with.

I do agree that it sucks that barbs only have 1 PrE does suck. Hopefully, the devs will give us some love next update.

I disagree with the whole dependant on a healer thing. A good barb is concious of this and never is a mana sponge. So long as you do your job (aka: kill kill kill) and don't do anything stupid, I haven't met a healer that was not willing to heal me. And after a tough quest/raid, barbs are more than willing to throw a pot or two to the casters as a thanks.

[eulogy098]

edited for ya:

Barbarian:
+Able to attain the highest hp in the game.
+FB PrE is amazing for damage
+Faster (running) speed
+Sprint Boost + Damage Boost
+Damage Resistance
+Constitution enhancements
+4 Skill points per level
- (removed, non issue)
-Somewhat feat starved
-Somewhat AP starved
-removed, simply irrelevant
-removed, simply wrong, Barbs have Power Rage enhancements, and capstone

vs

Fighter:
+(moderate) boosts to damage with specific weapon
+Highest critical hit range capabilities
+Multiple Toughness feats are easily fitted in (but not worth doing)
+17 feats(18 if human)
+Good combat feat usage. (but lower DC then barbs)
+Combat feat enhancements (still, lower DC then barbs)
+HASTE BOOST (caps, because this is a big deal)
+Strength boosting enhancements
+8 action boosts per rests enable frequent usage
-Damage drops without Power Surge (this is a weakness not a bonus)
-lower hp than barbarian (unless feats are wasted on multi toughness its quite a bit lower)
-Kensai is not as good for damage as FB
-Attack boost and Critical Accuracy enhancements are terrible
-AP starved (about as AP starved as it gets)
-No Constitution enhancements
-Relies heavily on Haste Boost for boss dps
-1 Skill points per level (just 1 actually)

If you could measure the total, overall damage done over the coarse of the average lengthed epic instance, i have no doubt that the Barbarian has contributed more. Every single monster a fighter attacks without haste boost leaves a huge gap with the Barbarian dashing forward because Range and Frenzy basically last forever. The latest % based change to Damage Boost further buffs barbs.


However, in some circumstances the fighters are superior. evon6 dragon, for example, fighters are a touch ahead. This is due to the constant breaks from combat giving them time to wait out the gap between haste boosts due to 30 sec CD and 20 sec duration and activate a new boost without losing swing time.


Ultimately the simply fact is that Fighters are not haste boosted 100% of the time. There are a great deal of swings made that are not powered by haste boost, and every round they throw unboosted is pretty pathetic dammage compared to the fully raged and frenzied barb.

If you ONLY care about damage output and max hp, Barbarian is the logical choice. Honestly i think anyone who really believes fighters are truly end-of-the-day more dps are delusional.


Fighter = utility, great burst dps, and flexible builds (the option to go AC for example)

Barbs = overall ultimate dps and HP with zero flexibility and no options for build customization (you wont be seeing any barbs with Improved trip, Stunning blow and Improved Sunder on the same toon.)

[Meat-Head]

If you could measure the total, overall damage done over the coarse of the average lengthed epic instance, i have no doubt that the Barbarian has contributed more. Every single monster a fighter attacks without haste boost leaves a huge gap with the Barbarian dashing forward because Range and Frenzy basically last forever. The latest % based change to Damage Boost further buffs barbs.


However, in some circumstances the fighters are superior. evon6 dragon, for example, fighters are a touch ahead. This is due to the constant breaks from combat giving them time to wait out the gap between haste boosts due to 30 sec CD and 20 sec duration and activate a new boost without losing swing time.


Ultimately the simply fact is that Fighters are not haste boosted 100% of the time. There are a great deal of swings made that are not powered by haste boost, and every round they throw unboosted is pretty pathetic dammage compared to the fully raged and frenzied barb.

If you ONLY care about damage output and max hp, Barbarian is the logical choice. Honestly i think anyone who really believes fighters are truly end-of-the-day more dps are delusional.


Fighter = utility, great burst dps, and flexible builds (the option to go AC for example)

Barbs = overall ultimate dps and HP with zero flexibility and no options for build customization (you wont be seeing any barbs with Improved trip, Stunning blow and Improved Sunder on the same toon.)

Great breakdown. Fighter will outdamage a barb when hasteboosted. It's that simple. But those boosts are limited.
OVERALL a barb will be putting out more damage most likely.

[Kinerd]

Assumes level 20 toons with maxed strength, and gear/effects that the fighter/barbarian can give themselves. You may use any gear in your calculations you want, although I would prefer the gear listed to be reasonably easy to attain(No epic items for example.) Barbarian Damage Boost IV and Fighter Haste Boost IV may or may not be included, but if you use one please factor in the other. Power Attack Enhancements must be included. Tomes may not be used in the calculations for strength bonuses. Both toons should be wielding Lit II Falchions with Greater Two Handed Fighting. Assume that FB III and Kensai III are used.

The only modification I made to these criteria were to grant Haste, because... it's Haste. Otherwise, I used the Ravager and Shintao Sets, the non-epic Claw set, Litany of the Dead, and seeker 6 from Marilith Chain or wherever. The values I obtained against targets with 0 fort 0 resist were:

Half-orc Fighter, no Haste Boost: 347
Half-orc Fighter: 405
Half-elf Fighter: 407
Half-orc Barb, no Damage Boost: 407
Half-orc Barb: 432

[lord_of_rage]

The only modification I made to these criteria were to grant Haste, because... it's Haste. Otherwise, I used the Ravager and Shintao Sets, the non-epic Claw set, Litany of the Dead, and seeker 6 from Marilith Chain or wherever. The values I obtained against targets with 0 fort 0 resist were:

Half-orc Fighter, no Haste Boost: 347
Half-orc Fighter: 405
Half-elf Fighter: 407
Half-orc Barb, no Damage Boost: 407
Half-orc Barb: 432

It makes no sense that an helf fighter would be over an horc fighter. I do believe your calcs are a bit off.

[Kinerd]

It makes no sense that an helf fighter would be over an horc fighter. I do believe your calcs are a bit off.

It should really be higher, because I forgot to put in half-elf sneak attack. That and damage boost pushes them up to 430. I'm very surprised they're that competitive with horc barbs in THF.

[redraider]

Look, both Ftr and Barb are great DPS. Every other Module release the advantage flip-flops.

Just play what you like they way you like it. Read the builds and boards for ideas on builds and gear - use what you want. Even a half maxed Ftr or Barb really can't go that wrong if you have half a brain.*

*I am rethinking this statement after seeing the new HPs UI after U11...

[Alex301]

The only modification I made to these criteria were to grant Haste, because... it's Haste. Otherwise, I used the Ravager and Shintao Sets, the non-epic Claw set, Litany of the Dead, and seeker 6 from Marilith Chain or wherever. The values I obtained against targets with 0 fort 0 resist were:

Half-orc Fighter, no Haste Boost: 347
Half-orc Fighter: 405
Half-elf Fighter: 407
Half-orc Barb, no Damage Boost: 407
Half-orc Barb: 432

Helf fighter is just 2 dps ahead of horc fighter? that doesn't seem right.

EDIT: Failed to read the whole of the first post and didn't see your second post; i get bored easily For thf that sounds about right. If my calculations are correct then a half elf will do the same damage as a horc if your base damage is 13/(0.25*2/3)= 78 before damage boost, excluding SA damage ofc. Anything over and half elf pulls a head.

[Newbie]

Depends...

Do you want to play a barbarian?
Barbarian does more damage, it's true.

Do you want to play a Fighter?
Fighter does more damage, it's true.

Do you want to play the best DPS between the two?

10 barb / 10 fighter


Yup, I'm tired of these barb vs fighter threads. There's a bunch threads talking about the same thing at least once a week/month.