eChrono - overboard?

[WangChi]

Completed a pug eChrono today, my first since Update 11.

All I can say is - everyone bring pots, this includes you barbs/rogues/fighters/etc - if you have any elixirs of mnemonic enhancement, give them to the healers as soon as you walk in, they will need them. This run had 3 VERY competent healers and some very good eSoS swinging dps'ers in red, and all three healers needed to drink about 8-9 pots each.

[Blank_Zero]

Completed a pug eChrono today, my first since Update 11.

All I can say is - everyone bring pots, this includes you barbs/rogues/fighters/etc - if you have any elixirs of mnemonic enhancement, give them to the healers as soon as you walk in, they will need them. This run had 3 VERY competent healers and some very good eSoS swinging dps'ers in red, and all three healers needed to drink about 8-9 pots each.

Good.

Epic raids should be hard.

That's why they are EPIC.

[somenewnoob]

Don't mind extra challenge......mind extra challenge without extra reward though.

If that's you too, good thread going on over here:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=341155

Basically just saying it's cool to have more challenge, but give us more shinies to go with the more challenge. Better drop rates, etc.

[Jandric]

Good.

Epic raids should be hard.

That's why they are EPIC.

A stitch in time saves 9.

A penny saved is a penny earned.

Buy low, sell high.

I'm not saying that your sentiment is wrong, but either posting that or posting the disclaimer on the epic entry screen seems to be the response du jour to this and doesn't really mean much more than the above pearls of wisdom.

Epic raids should be hard, but making the cleric/FVS chug pots to keep everyone else up kind of sucks for said cleric/FVS. Everyone is trying out the rebalanced raids right now, and we may well come up with different strategies to offset the load on the healers. Some are worried that the new difficulty sets the barrier of entry too high, but only time will tell.

While I agree with the sentiment that Epics should be hard, it is a tad more complicated than just saying- It's Epic!

[Chai]

Good.

Epic raids should be hard.

That's why they are EPIC.

challenging =/= drink moar mana pots.

Pretty lame that epic clad raiders cant complete epics sans pots. Kinda putting the cart before the horse, isnt it?

[stainer]

Good.

Epic raids should be hard.

That's why they are EPIC.

You were doing so well, and then you post this.

[WangChi]

A stitch in time saves 9.

A penny saved is a penny earned.

Buy low, sell high.

I'm not saying that your sentiment is wrong, but either posting that or posting the disclaimer on the epic entry screen seems to be the response du jour to this and doesn't really mean much more than the above pearls of wisdom.

Epic raids should be hard, but making the cleric/FVS chug pots to keep everyone else up kind of sucks for said cleric/FVS. Everyone is trying out the rebalanced raids right now, and we may well come up with different strategies to offset the load on the healers. Some are worried that the new difficulty sets the barrier of entry too high, but only time will tell.

While I agree with the sentiment that Epics should be hard, it is a tad more complicated than just saying- It's Epic!

Agreed. A little "chicken before the egg", "cart before the horse" going on. You need the epic gear to beat the epic quest to get the epic gear, seems a little puzzling to me, and I could tell no increase in drop rate for shards/seals/scrolls for added difficulty to the quest.

I really don't mind additional challenge, I think it's great in fact, but all the weight has been placed on the clerics/fvs shoulders with the way the game is currently setup to be played. The DPS's need some inherent way to mitigate damage to themselves (read: AC or DR) that is realistically attainable while still maintaining the DPS needed to complete the quest with the healers help.

[Bodic]

challenging =/= drink moar mana pots.

Pretty lame that epic clad raiders cant complete epics sans pots. Kinda putting the cart before the horse, isnt it?

His toons dont care Heal him.

He has 1 Blue Bar Class a Wiz.

[Jiipster]

Funny - I see people on the forums claiming they had to use 5+ pots on this raid. Ran it yesterday, about four spots pugged, rest guildies, and I ended up drinking a single pot (which could probably have been prohibited, but I did some pretty major overhealing to make sure noone went down while I was lagging my butt off), don't think the other healer used any.

We ran eVoN6, eDQ2, eChrono and Shroud elite, and I think I ended up using six pots in total - maybe seven, most of which were used during the Elite Shroud.

The sky isn't falling, people.

[KingOfCheese]

I don't know if the healers did this, but one at a time can usually head back to town and use a shrine. If mana is at a premium, its not too hard to have 2 spare shrines still available at the end fight.

[Maugrim101]

Slightly off topic but not totally unrelated. Did an Elite Shroud earlier to test the water of the new tough bosses.

The group wasn't filled with the most ubarz players on the server, but had players that are at least "Decent" (One exception, but that wouldnt have made any differance).

Parts 1-3 go the same way as any E-Shroud I've been in before, then in part 4 it took either 6 or 7 (Lost count) rounds to take down the new Harry. It's fair to say that we didn't go into any serious planning, but yeah, even groups with ESos swinging melees and a few healers better be prepared to spend some resources.

At the end, same old loot in the chest (Think I got a large shrap).

It's not such a big deal for shroud because you can just do norm and get your mats that way, but for Dragon, Chrono, DQ and the new raids, you can't really avoid the bosses with the inflated hp and the guzzlefest that's kinda inevitable.

Pot buy ins for these higher end runs are likely to be the future. Either that or we'll start to see more "Where are all the healers" threads.

[Schmoe]

you Were Doing So Well,

Lies!

[Rumbaar]

Good.

Epic raids should be hard.

That's why they are EPIC.

Pity EPIC is the end game content that can only be achieved with the access to end game content you are trying to get.

How many players are going to PuG EPIC now? With the chance of so much resources being used without the end reward being guaranteed.

With the introduction of the HP/SP display and the increase in HP/Fort to end game content ... I would hate to see Turbine push DDO to an elitist game. I'm not sure why they are going down this road, with a F2P marketing model.

I guess the sales of pots is the biggest money maker for them.

[jkm]

Good.

Epic raids should be hard.

That's why they are EPIC.

No, as usual, the only people they made the quests hard for were the kiters and the people healing it. The auto-attackers still just go get coffee and come back and loot.

[Rumbaar]

The group wasn't filled with the most ubarz players on the server, but had players that are at least "Decent" (One exception, but that wouldnt have made any differance).

Parts 1-3 go the same way as any E-Shroud I've been in before, then in part 4 it took either 6 or 7 (Lost count) rounds to take down the new Harry. It's fair to say that we didn't go into any serious planning, but yeah, even groups with ESos swinging melees and a few healers better be prepared to spend some resources.

See that's a L18 quest [elite] and eChrono is a L25 quest.

But without an increase in chests or reward drops, there isn't a need to do Elite Shroud. Even Weapon Shipments gets additional chests for additional rewards on higher difficulties now ...

[sirgog]

How many Heal scrolls were used raidwide on the last fight?

If your answer is less than 300, and you used mana potions - that's not the encounter's design fault, that's just idiotic divines that have no concept of mana conservation and do not belong in epic raids. Send them back to Normal Shroud to learn to play their class.

If more than 300, then raidwide DPS may have been lacking. People using inappropriate weapons (like the eSOS, which is awful on high fortification bosses) are likely the issue here. Did people not have humble +3 Holy Greater Evil Outsider Bane weapons, or similar?

[allaanon]

Completed a pug eChrono today, my first since Update 11.

I can see all of the issues in your first sentence...

1. PUG

Obviously there are good pugs and bad but comparing apples to apples a group or guild that is regularly together will have less issues than those that don't.

2. my first

It was your first run, chill! People will adapt, builds will adapt, dps will get strong with new epic and craftable weapons. The sky is not falling because you stubbed your toe on the first run.

Our first run last night was not flawless, but it frankly wasn't as hard as I expected.

[Angelus_dead]

that's not the encounter's design fault, that's just idiotic divines that have no concept of mana conservation and do not belong in epic raids. Send them back to Normal Shroud to learn to play their class.

It's also the fault of the system mechanics design which makes scrollbotting into the primary way to play the class in tough fights.

[Blank_Zero]

You were doing so well, and then you post this.

Don't hit me.

[Chai]

How many Heal scrolls were used raidwide on the last fight?

If your answer is less than 300, and you used mana potions - that's not the encounter's design fault, that's just idiotic divines that have no concept of mana conservation and do not belong in epic raids. Send them back to Normal Shroud to learn to play their class.

If more than 300, then raidwide DPS may have been lacking. People using inappropriate weapons (like the eSOS, which is awful on high fortification bosses) are likely the issue here. Did people not have humble +3 Holy Greater Evil Outsider Bane weapons, or similar?

So its monte haul or go home, eh?

Ok guys, do I have enough scrolls?