New UI = Griefing Tool

[freekay]

Heh...

I work my butt off at my job. I work my butt off getting my kids too/from sporting activities or helping them with their homework, I work my butt off to keep my wife happy ( you know what they say ;oD ) but one thing I do not, will not ever work my butt off for is a MMPOG. I am and I have always been a casual player. I play for fun. I'm LUCKY if I play 10 hours in an entire week (and probably average closer to 5). I read the forums, I ask for advice, I use the character planners. I also pay attention in groups, let the leader know if I'm new to a quest (and especially new to a raid) - often before I hit the LFM and I take direction well. I think that in my tenure here in DDO I've become a reasonably good player and rarely, if ever, a detriment to the group.

I've said it before and I will say it again, good, smart, game play and a willingness to pay attention will trump gear any day, any quest. So all I ask is for the ability to have others decide whether or not I'm "worthy" of their group based on my ability to play and willingness to learn and not whether or not I have the number of HPs they think I should have. A suck player with a barb who has 900 HP still sucks.

But ok, fine... it's still new so we'll see what happens. Perhaps I'm wrong and if I am, I will cut myself a big slice of humble pie (with milk).

There's a pretty distinct correlation between an experienced/skilled player and the gear/hp/sp they have on their toons. Looking at one extreme of the spectrum, the most recognised or 'Elite' players on every server tend have toons with high HP/SP and probably a butt-ton of epic gear. Conversely, the Gimpadons tend to have stats in places that are questionable, as well as poorly thought out (if any thought at all) race/level split/gear choices. This is where I use MyDDO to sort what type of player I let into my groups. I find that a 'good player' and a 190hp Rogue with 0 fort are mutually exclusive. To prove my point, I used MyDDO on your toons, and the results showed me a person who has thoughtfully built their toon, but has some way to go in terms of epic gear. In all honesty, if I was posting a raid/epic and your cleric sent me a tell to say that it was your first time in said epic/raid, I'd gladly take you based on your willingness to learn as well as your MyDDO page.

My beef is with people who cry foul because their sense of entitlement had been bruised by my declining of what was clearly a terrible toon. Good players don't build terrible toons (unless they're just griefing, but that's a different kettle of fish).

[Terebinthia]

/not signed

I honestly think this is a good move, like others have said before me, it is really going to put a fine tuning tweak on HP.

It stinks right now because people are jumping the gun with it, but when the smoke settles I think it will actually make parties much stronger.

Knowledge is power. Knowing is half the battle.

Well and succinctly put. It's a pain that the new AI is such a pest to heal but I think in the end the extra information will be positive.

I'm intending to set aside every con / FL item I pull and stick it on a mule for a bit, to be handed out to folk that need it and are willing to accept the help. Low HP can be a good indicator of other gearing needs, too, so I may stockpile other stat items / potency etc. I don't really need the plat so it's no skin off my nose to help out a bit, at least while I don't need that spare character slot for anything else.

[Ebuddy]

There's a pretty distinct correlation between an experienced/skilled player and the gear/hp/sp they have on their toons.

Concur.

...but has some way to go in terms of epic gear..

Candidly, none of my toons has any epic gear. I don't run epics very often because of the amount of time I'm willing to commit to the game. In addition, I find it to be a lot of work if I'm not going to keep my toon at lvl 20 for a long period of time but instead accumulate some in-game wealth and then TR.

My beef is with people who cry foul because their sense of entitlement had been bruised by my declining of what was clearly a terrible toon. Good players don't build terrible toons (unless they're just griefing, but that's a different kettle of fish).

Ok....I can live with that. As I said earlier, I could very well be wrong. =)

[Newbie]

I'm just an Elitist arse.

What changed now is that Raid bosses hit harder and have much much more HP than before U11. The former is generally not so much of an issue, but combined with the latter, it turns the fight into a longer battle of attrition where SP usage needs to be managed. Where before you could afford to just throw a mass cure or heal between mass heals to top up the squishies, doing so now, esp on harder, longer fights is going to unnecessarily strain the healers SP. For example epic Velah has something like 3 times the amount of HP and hits alot harder, sometimes 150 a swing, even a melee with 400 hp is going to die in the 6 second cooldown of mass heal unless a cure/heal is used. We had 3 healers on that run, and a decent group, not dripping with epics but solid gear. Having to throw 1-2 mass cures/heal between mass heal can really put a strain on SP, even 2k worth of it once bases were done. Not hard to get more than 400 hp esp on a melee..

Take it as the opinion of an elitist arse.

I do agree with your logic. I'm actually against them raising the difficulty of the existing content. Adding more difficulty to the new content would have made more sense. Increasing difficulties to the current content just discourages not elitists to actually try their hand on the epic content.

Now you need an army of people who has done epics before that's epic geared to do an epic raid with reasonable success.

Shouldn't I get natural fort and more HP with the logic of turbine implemented on why the bosses got stronger...

New bosses = stronger makes more sense than buffing up someone that you've killed a million times before.

[Fundamental]

The number values are fine.
Someone who has low HP is always a risk for the party as a whole, same is someone who has 600 HP and can't play.
It's all up to the leader to decice what and how... etc.

Information is always good.

[Sebastrd]

/not signed

Kicking someone for low hp is not griefing anymore than kicking someone for no ears is griefing. For every alleged low hp rogue that makes it through a VoD unscathed, there are ten more that drop in the first wave of orthons.

Note: I have never kicked someone for low hp, nor have I ever seen someone kicked for low hp. YMMV

[Junk]

I did not read the whole thread but I have to ask. How many people in the group spoke up after somebody was kicked out for low HP. The way to fight ingnorance is to speak up to the ingnorant person at that time because most people do not read these threads.

[Yan_PL]

When I see low HP char in my party when I lead, I ask him if he's fine with this much HP, if he knows his job, his squishiness, and the quest we're going to do.

I have a sorc who has 484hp with rage/yugo pots, it's irritating me when I see a barb with 480hp on same level. And I seen wizards with over 600 hp. you can get a lot of HP if you spend some time getting it; yet you still can survive most things with 292 hp drow if you know how to do it. and if you don't know how to play or forget to wear your heavy fort - even 700hp ain't going to guarantee your survival.

That's why, if I see more HP - I assume someone had enough practice while getting their fancy + to hp stuffs; and when I see low HP I ask why is it so and if it works out well for someone. Or in worst cases, I ask someone to pike to save healer resources.

[adam1oftheround]

They may have taken off all their gear to see if the leader was worth running with. So maybe they just wanted to be sure the leader was not ignorant.

If they in fact have no con6 item or greater false life item, give them one. These items are sitting in your bank or available on auction house for 3-30k plat. I have given away 8 sets to the low hp guy in the group since the new UI has been in effect.

This makes it easier to help them learn about the game and gives you a chance to help them out.

It will not break you to give out a +6 health necklace and a greater false life belt to the guy who has never thought to use one. As a bonus he will likely add you to his friends list

Cheers

[Paleus]

(sarcasm on) LFM player level restrictions are griefing! Make it so you hide the players character level so that you can't restrict joining a group based on level. (sarcasm off)

Ok, obviously that is ridiculous, but the mechanic of a player choosing to restrict access to their run based on level is the same as based on hp. Its the group leader making a judgement call about what is a base level of character capability that is needed to run a certain quest.

Now, do some people make bad judgment calls on what is needed to run a quest? Of course, how often do you see an 18-20 shroud run up? Are there some people below the level of the quest that can easily do the content? Of course, same as there are people above the level of the quest that cannot do the content.

This isnt griefing, this is being selective about who gets in your parties and its within anyone's right to choose not to accept you into their party. Now, we may disagree with them, we may want to be more inclusive in the game, and thats our right to express those desires by posting our own LFMs. If a person excludes you and is jerk about it, harrassing you in tells, etc thats a totally separate story. But then your problem is with their behavior not with the UI.

[Yan_PL]

Ok, obviously that is ridiculous, but the mechanic of a player choosing to restrict access to their run based on level is the same as based on hp.

oh well, leader of that epic run won't let me into his group because I'm not lvl 20...
or likely, leader won't let me join as it would make people get NO EXP for quest lvl + powerlevelling (l16 quest, l16 group l20 character applying).

yep it's totally same as picking 400hp caster instead of 182 one...

[Splatterfart]

As a raid leader I actively use the new UI to weed out players that would LIKELY be problematic in a raid. Simply stated: There are 11 other people in the raid to consider. If I need to hurt the feelings of the 180 warforged favored soul, then I'm being considerate to the other 11 folks that probably don't feel like pulling and extra load by carrying a soul stone through the dungeon.

That being said, before booting anyone I always question them regarding their build mechanics. I use my own judgement from there.

[simpleman69423]

/not signed
new UI is really usefull i think specially for healers as information on who is the weakest and strongest one in the party is always usefull.. ppl using it as a griefing tool? could be but so is myddo and well lets be honest.. 200 hp is NOTHING it disapears faster than the beer on my jar! it is simply not enough at high level stuff specially at raids and epics with the buffd raid bosses... just stop complaining and get more hp its not like as it it was hard do yourselves a favor and get more survability!
oh btw sorry for my bad english..good luck and have fun!

Hrothgard from Orien

[az4a3l]

I gotta agree, the new UI is gonna make it harder for adventurers build to enter, HOX or VOD, shroud always need cannon fodder, but endgame related its gonna became a squelch tool.
I started as a 28 build, i did my 20 shrouds on a 160 hp caster ( and that was with a+6con item), killed the cristal in less than 5 secs, it was only after xmas that a player sold me a greater heart at 10% AH base price for answering a trivia, i know for sure if i was trying to run shrouds with the new UI, i woulda get booted or trolled, for my choice of race as caster and the lack of hp a 28 build gets.
I think time and tolerance for other people´s build might make the new UI settle but for now a lot of people is gonna get their DDO xperience ruined.

[GoMeansGreen]

I have already seen this five times in less than a day. Someone joins the group and because the party leader thinks they are a poor build it's auto-boot time.

The new UI bars, while nice and helpful in alot of ways, are already being used to tell people that if they don't have the uber-flavor of the month-build then they shouldn't even bother.

I mean, really, minimum of 200hp for a VOD is recommended but I took a toon in there (rogue) that had 177hp and guess what...he was the only one who didn't die. VOD run last night....sorc with 190hp joins and 3 seconds later is booted. For some people, with limited time to play, stuff like this is just going to discourage them and send them packing which means Turbine loses that income.

Come on. We've lived this long without that info, and, while I said it's nice knowing how many hp someone has in the group so you can throw a cure light instead of wasting a cure serious on them is great, but if you're that worried about your SP, you need to learn better SP management skills.

And no, this hasn't happened to me, yet, but I expect it will as I have a couple of "test-build" toons I like to goof around with.

+1 rep

(though, those are the people you really don't want to party with, the booters, not the bootees, i mean)

oh, and it looks bad, too... esp the arti icon, and the arti pet bar (make it integral like the mana and focus bars (is it focus? for the monk... hope im not holding over from wow)