VIP Why?

[Caseas]

From a "bait & switch" point of view, wouldn't it be more efficient to fool the premiums?

Premiums spend their money in bursts. Once they're done, who cares if they leave? From a True Neutral standpoint, the company doesn't feel anything when they go; however, VIP's spend their money over time, and those MOT's need to be maintained, right?

If Turbine takes the "Uncaring Master" feat, they should be stacking VIP with benefits and then doing as the Joker would with his sociological experiments -- have a field day with the premiums.

I'm VIP, I'm biased towards VIP, and I'm a bit on the Chaotic side of things and enjoy watching those who think they're smart get mauled to tiny bits in a lawn mulcher.

Anyone remember that dude in the first Saw movie who had to decode the combination to the safe while naked, covered in napalm, injected with a slow poison, and only an open-flame candle for light? Yeah. Good times.

Go team VIP!

[BOgre]

If Turbine uncaring master'd me (I'm a Premie), I wouldn't be here to buy more points, to buy U11, to buy Arti, or XP pots, or H/E unlocks, or everything else coming down the 'pike. Let's just not start this whole VIP/Prem thing alll over again, shall we?

[Chai]

The reason to be VIP is so that you can give your money to turbine and have nothing to show for it when you leave to play SWTOR.

The purpose of F2P is to get two years sub money from you in 1 day so when you leave to play SWTOR they already got two years sub out of you.

if you look at the rate of updates vs the rate of free updates .. vs the cost of items in the updates .. you would realize that F2P who purchase the updates every time .. are really paying the same price as VIPs and VIPs get turbine points for free.

when it comes to price ... both are the same .. so really there is no reason to over bonus VIPs anymore.

And when SWTOR flops because every 12 year old is playing OP jedi, or crying that they cant until the designers finally allow it, DDO will still be waiting here, for anyone who chose either plan who can then re-up and continue to pay into the system.

[nolaureltree000]

i honestly dont think that turbine wants people to be vip. premium players bring more money upfront. the only way vips bring more money to the table is if they stay in the game for a long time. the only way that premiums get their money's worth is if they stay in the game for a long time.

its my opinion that turbine's business model is such that it hopes all new players become premium, not vip.

[knightgf]

VIP and the Artificer- Like I said before in other places, this is not for me to comment on. There is discussion in house about VIPs. You guys and gals are not forgotten.

Really now?

First off, why is it so hard to discuss the issue of artificer not free for VIP's? It absolutely blows my mind, and if theres some bs legal reason behind it, its a pathetic excuse, at best. You know, I realize the true reason may be a low blow, but between "We can't discuss it because idk." and "We didn't make it free because our game is in financial trouble." I'll take financial trouble any day over confidentiality.

So far, I see little reason to become a VIP, because there just are not that many perks when compared to premium. I would give a few suggestions, but maybe not here. If you need a little advice as to how to boost benefits for VIP's, ASK US. Please. And thank you.

[Uska]

I expect SWTOR to crash and burn within a year of launch....

As for VIP's.. well I'm too lazy to bother to change... At this point it would cost me around 2 years of the pitance I pay a month in sub fees to buy everything... Screw that.... But I do agree taht it has been constantly erroded by Turbine giving into to every complaint by the Prem crowd.

After seeing game play I expect the same unless they do major tooling and on the VIP thing I am in the same boat you are cost to much to get everything I would need to keep the same enjoyment level so staying VIP

[Solmage]

Some of your questions and concerns may be answered here:

http://my.ddo.com/ddoqablog/

I appreciate all the info on that blog, thanks for linking to it.

However, please convey to the higher-ups this VIPs extreme dissatisfaction with the current direction you have taken re: VIPs for their little internal debate.

If it really is your intention to drive us all away from VIP, this path will accomplish it, but not without a lot of ill-will. Perhaps you could be honest with us and let us know that you now prefer us all switching to premium.

Perhaps the name VIP could be changed to Subies or something, because I certainly do not feel my subscription is being treated with any importance, never mind 'very important' as the namesake implies.

[Solmage]

After seeing game play I expect the same unless they do major tooling and on the VIP thing I am in the same boat you are cost to much to get everything I would need to keep the same enjoyment level so staying VIP

In a way, Turbine motivated me to go check it out. I'm sure it'll crash and burn, but I'm sure it'll be fun for half a year up to a year.

As for the entire VIP thing, yes, we were fools to not read the writing in the wall, and frankly I applaud to those that had the vision to switch to prem from day one.

I wonder if Turbine realizes the effect ill-will has on the playerbase, at least some of them: I was going to buy the $60 point package as soon as it went on sale because I figured I would use points to expand my bank, buy a few more mana pots, buy the new class, couple of lesser hearts of wood to LR my crafter unto an Arty, etc.

Once I learned of the changes, and realized they were not budging from their proposals, it became very easy: When the sale came on the points I passed, total store point purchases since then, 0, total store point purchases planned for the future 0, I'd rather burn the $60 on in a different game for the novelty factor.

When the sub expires in a few months I should have 2000 or so points lying around. I'll pick my favorite content, and stick to that, only very occasionally buying points: my goal is to spend under $5 a month. (Compared to now spending a sub + a good amount of points from time to time)

[Drakos]

Yup - giving VIPs the ability to do something that Premium/F2P cannot do is apparently considered a slap in the face by some VIP.

Op, I encourage you to think of the VIP subscription as a way to play the entire game for $15/month, and not think of it as the red carpet ultimate prestige path.

If you decide that you like the game and want to play for an extended period of time, Premium is a lot easier on the wallet.

Thgen maybe they shouldn't call it the "Red Carpet White Glove" level of access. They are the ones calling it this, the VIP's are just trying to figure out how that is the case. Seems more like the Bend over Latex Glove treatement to me.

[rocky007]

Some of your questions and concerns may be answered here:

http://my.ddo.com/ddoqablog/

Nope...none of my questions about being a VIP were answered here. Do like the rest of the blog though. I guess my best reason for being VIP is it's about $300-400 to unlock everything with points depending on sales and whatnot and that’s 30-40 months of play time. Not to mention not being able to unlock anything until you are actually P2P kinda sucks...If Turbine is considering moving away from VIP as it seems they are maybe allowing VIP to purchase P2P items gradually over time would be a good idea rather than expecting a huge output of cash for us founder players with 15 characters.

[Drakos]

But honestly I do get the Op's sentiment there just is no real perks to being VIP outside just being able to be one for me at least. I really thought a paid subscription would mean less worry about what I need to have and more content without fuss and I have said several times if they had to raise the rates to insure that do so. But with this and many of our perceived perks being eroded given away or sold in the store its hard to see the benefits of the pay model outside the few of us who it would cost more to convert.

It would actually cost me very little to convert to Premimum because I dropped my account for a month to buy most of the content late last year. The point, at least for me, isn't the cost. I maintain a VIP account primarily because I think it is only right to continue to support the company for a game I play.

However, with that being said, I think it is only right that the game company continue to give me what was prommised when I agreed to pay. This is where it falls appart. I have plenty of TP, as I tend to buy it rather frequently, but that isn't the issue, according to my view I shouldn't have to use those points for game content as I was prommised said content for my monthly sub fee. I agree with those that say "some clases are identified as unlock or buy" and that it is specified in the list of benefits as such, but it also says that I will have access to all game content for said fee, and I will not be able to unlock this class withing the U11 frame, therefore it does not qualify as a favor unlock class yet.

Now, I would also like to address the unlock hard/eliete issue. It was not the initial intention to strip the exclusivity of this perk from VIP's. It came about from the non-VIP crowd whining about the new "Bravery" system being unavaliable to them because it requires this ability to unlock on Hard first. The dev responce was to give this ability to TR's reguardless of their account type, doing so at the expence of devaluing a VIP perk. It has been stated by a Dev that this was the "best compromise". So in their eyes a best compromise is to devaluse those that provide a guarenteed level of income, those identified as having the "Red Carpet White Glove" accounts. Then to make it even worse, to satisify those whining about the the Bravery system, they only really needed to give them unlock Hard for free, but they instead gave both Hard and Elite unlock away. Why? The bravery system requires you do Hard followed by Elite; since doing it on hard unlocks elite giving eleite unlock away was not needed to solve the issue. BTW, NO I don not feel that those who TR deserve it just because they have TR'ed. TR is a game decision that they are doing for the current benefits od TR'ing a character and those benefits are enough.

Finally, to ad insult to injury, they are now going to allow non-VIP to access the game content immediatly rather than give the VIP the exclussive head start on new content. Yes I requires a VIP to facilitate this, so one VIP is now allowed to lower the valuse of all VIP's benifits. This is not fair to those VIP's who were told "Exclusive first look at new content".

In U11 alone VIP accounts are being devalued in three ways. So, like you, I can definatly see the OP's point. All we have in the way of ANY dev responce to the VIP's crys of unfair treatment is a line in a blog saying "VIP's have not been forgotten". This one statement does not even state thet thing will get better for VIP accounts, just that they are aware of the complaints but are taking the "were already getting their money so they are of less import" approach. We VIP's have been accused of feeling "entitled" and in a sense I would agree. In general when you pay for something, you should feel entitled to receive it as advertised and without later stripping it away. That is like going to a car lot, buying a car outright for cash, and then the cas company saying, "Sorry, now that we have your money, we are taking the tires off your new car, but the good news is you can give us more money to get them back. For a limited time of course and we reserve the right to take them away again in the future."

[Drakos]

i honestly dont think that turbine wants people to be vip. premium players bring more money upfront. the only way vips bring more money to the table is if they stay in the game for a long time. the only way that premiums get their money's worth is if they stay in the game for a long time.

its my opinion that turbine's business model is such that it hopes all new players become premium, not vip.

They have a funny way of showing it. They are constantly flooding us with "Go VIP" adds. It was the freaking splash screen for how long?

[Drakos]

Perhaps the name VIP could be changed to Subies or something, because I certainly do not feel my subscription is being treated with any importance, never mind 'very important' as the namesake implies.

I don't believe changing the name will solve the issue. It isn't the name, it is the not getting what you paid for.

[EustaceTrevelyan]

VIPs can vote with their feet and leave if they wish, taking their money with them. They have pull. No refunds for premiums that decide they've had enough. Once you've bought the TP, it's pretty much "We got even with that circus, we bought tickets and didn't go in," if you leave.

VIPs also have access to customer service. Premiums only get this if within 45 days of a TP buy. Sure, there's a 6.50 pack, but that's over half a months play at VIP multi-month rates. Just to resolve an issue.

Not coming down on one side or another, but if you're paying money, they have an incentive to keep you here. Premiums, they just have to provide something interesting enough to make them want to buy a given pack.

I suppose the game as a whole makes more money (continuing consumeable buys, etc) if it can attract a lot of premium players, but VIPs are always going to have more pull, since it's steady predictable income.

[oradafu]

VIPs can vote with their feet and leave if they wish, taking their money with them. They have pull. No refunds for premiums that decide they've had enough. Once you've bought the TP, it's pretty much "We got even with that circus, we bought tickets and didn't go in," if you leave.

Actually, VIPs are in the same boat as Premiums when it comes to "no refunds". Once you subscribe for an amount of time, you must ride it out. It doesn't matter if you have a couple of months, weeks or days on your subscription...Once you're VIP, you stay VIP until your subscription runs out and not a minute before.

[Solmage]

I don't believe changing the name will solve the issue. It isn't the name, it is the not getting what you paid for.

That is not the main point, the main point is honesty, if VIPs will now be seen as the cheap ride as opposed to the very important customers that keep this thing going, then they need to tell us outright so we can make informed decisions. It also, at that point, wouldn't hurt to change the name to temper expectations.

[Drfirewater79]

And when SWTOR flops because every 12 year old is playing OP jedi, or crying that they cant until the designers finally allow it, DDO will still be waiting here, for anyone who chose either plan who can then re-up and continue to pay into the system.

read up on the game .... doubt anyone will leave SWTOR for DDO ... i am a free to play on ddo have all the packs and will likely continue to buy all the packs ... BUT ... SWTOR has 200 hours of completely seperate Story (RPG style) for each class 4 classes per faction 2 factions launched with 2 prestige classes per class (total of 16 different character types at launch) the largest accessable universe then any other MMO beta testers so far have said twice the size of WoW easily. And on top of everything inticing and exciting PvP options both in open world on pvp servers and in warzones on all servers (and pvp hotspots on PVE servers as well) launching with more then 10 sub raids (flashpoints ... like SoS in DDO) and so far we only know about 1 raid.

SWTOR is the game that is expected to change the face of the MMO market forever like wow did .. even wow is considering free to play because of the draw on the market SWTOR has.

DDO is the best MMO on the market today bar none .. even with the nerfs and dev stupidity that we have delt with over the years. But you would be blind not to realize that they are 2 months from launch and have already sold over 2 million copies of the game world wide. which is more then DDO has ever had a population of in LIVE even as a free to play game.

you dont even have to pay for this game to play it and we cant get 2 milion ... SWTOR has nearly 100 people who have played the game outside of conventions and they already sold 2 million copies.

Plus i dont know what server your on ... but there are a ton of kids playing DDO ... since free to play this game is filled with pre teens and adults who act like them ... lets call them the WoW community for short.
Yes SWTOR will have them too ... sure .... hopefully all on PVP servers where they belong (as i will role PVE and just PVP in warzones with guildies---check out hutt-ball video on there site to see how they have changed the face of PVP for the better) but you should know that just like in this game ... GUILDS are how you fill parties.

They have a 4 man party system that goes up to 8 with hirelings (they call them companions) 8 man raids and 16man epic raids (they call them heroics)

this means your guild can be smaller and still easily fill parties and raids without pugging .. ALSO it means that pugging can be more specific as well. Here we might just take anyone for the last spot ... or fill a full who cares pug for Echrono (i do it daily so yes you dont need elitist snobs to beat echrono) ... So if your only ability to put down the most popular video game bar none that is yet to launch ... by saying DDO is better ... i would love for you to explain it to me.

I am no SWTOR fanboi either ... trust me i have been banned from there forums twice as much as i have been banned from here and they are not even a live game yet. There developers are twice as rediculous as DDOs developers .. but the difference ... they are launching a game that is complete at launch ... not forcing people to pay subs to beta the game for 4 years and still not have the core classes (druid anyone? no wait more people over the last 4 years have been askign for artificier right?).

But you have to believe that if this game cant be top of the market when its free dispite the best combat system quite possibly in any RPG let alone MMOrpg ... the best graphics of most MMOs if not all mmos (including SWTOR) ... and NO SUB FEE.

Not only that the dev team continues to alienate there player base hoping to freshen up the game for people who dont want to play it.

we will see what happens when swtor launches ... i dont know about all servers .. but i can all but garuntee 30% drop on sarlona ... cause i pug alot and every party i have been in for the last 6 months (more so since july pre orders) has had at least one person who says something along the lines of "who cares if they nerf us ... gonna be playing SWTOR in a couple months anyway"

my answer has always been "I am gonna play both cause i already own this game" but who knows the truth.

[wildman2]

Some of your questions and concerns may be answered here:

http://my.ddo.com/ddoqablog/

I am running Artifier level4 and had no problem with the Artifier creation. I am also VIP so I did not need to pay very much for it.

Probems That I have encountered and recongized are all minor:

1. The tiny ingredent bag does not clear the display when the last item is removed. Similar to the display that is being used with using the last item in the quick boxes.

2. The wand of Bull Strengthreceived fromPeta Flashpin has an error message contained in the description:
Ingredient type: <string table error; Table DID [0x00000000] token [ 0x00000000] >, UMD Difficulty:22

3. When Ipicked up a second though spike +1 from Ursa Jernsvar in Korthos village, It did not show up in my
inventory. I wante to use for crafting as it has two different things that you can do with it.

4. When cursor is placed on items in inventory, It goes into a rapid reset cycle preventing you from reading
anything about the Item. I needed to place the item into the bank inventory of items that can be exchanged
between toons to be able to read it.

Glad to hear that the Artifier is being released soon so that I can go back to my home server. My other toon
was cleared from the lam server and I lost a lot of stored materials. I was also in a guild at level 100 which I
miss. Since my account money does not apply or transfer to the lam server, I do not buy much at all there.

[smeggy1384]

I am running Artifier level4 and had no problem with the Artifier creation. I am also VIP so I did not need to pay very much for it.

Probems That I have encountered and recongized are all minor:

1. The tiny ingredent bag does not clear the display when the last item is removed. Similar to the display that is being used with using the last item in the quick boxes.

2. The wand of Bull Strengthreceived fromPeta Flashpin has an error message contained in the description:
Ingredient type: <string table error; Table DID [0x00000000] token [ 0x00000000] >, UMD Difficulty:22

3. When Ipicked up a second though spike +1 from Ursa Jernsvar in Korthos village, It did not show up in my
inventory. I wante to use for crafting as it has two different things that you can do with it.

4. When cursor is placed on items in inventory, It goes into a rapid reset cycle preventing you from reading
anything about the Item. I needed to place the item into the bank inventory of items that can be exchanged
between toons to be able to read it.

Glad to hear that the Artifier is being released soon so that I can go back to my home server. My other toon
was cleared from the lam server and I lost a lot of stored materials. I was also in a guild at level 100 which I
miss. Since my account money does not apply or transfer to the lam server, I do not buy much at all there.

On the test server the arti price was one TP when i created my first, won't be the case on live.

Might check to see if there is a unique type flag on that thought spike.. but you could just move on and grab other arms, thought spike is nice for the damage type, but unless you shoot it close range can hit walls and do nothing.

For the items in inventory thing you may need to move the item to the far left of screen before examining, for me they always flicker on and off if in the right side or middle, it just doesn't have enough room onscreen to show it all side by side.

Test server has a npc in harbor who gives out 2000 points TP every day or so, go wild buying and testing, though the class goes live in around 12 hours from now anyway

[lunatec]

The reason to be VIP is so that you can give your money to turbine and have nothing to show for it when you leave to play SWTOR.

The purpose of F2P is to get two years sub money from you in 1 day so when you leave to play SWTOR they already got two years sub out of you.

if you look at the rate of updates vs the rate of free updates .. vs the cost of items in the updates .. you would realize that F2P who purchase the updates every time .. are really paying the same price as VIPs and VIPs get turbine points for free.

when it comes to price ... both are the same .. so really there is no reason to over bonus VIPs anymore.

I am in beta with SWTOR...sorry, it kinda sucks. It is boring, weird controls, 36GB on disk, and pretty much a cookie-cutter boring half-mmo, half-dragon age 2 (which also sucked)